Were those last generation HRC CR 250's really that good?

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10/6/2019 10:26 PM

After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what is different inside those HRC engines compared tho stock motor? The bike sounded completely different than the stock CR250 engine.

I remember Ricky Carmichael beating Stefan Everts's works YZ450f riding his CR250 back in 2003 at Zolder MXON race so those bikes must have been plenty fast. Seems to me that Honda had perfected their factory CR250 just before they quit racing it.

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10/6/2019 11:08 PM

They were pretty good. But mostly that was Roczen facing inferior talent

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10/6/2019 11:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/6/2019 11:14 PM

So many posts of people minimizing rider skill.

Lieb was the only guy that had a significant engine disadvantage in the whole event imo.

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James

10/6/2019 11:20 PM

For what it's worth, Seelys motor was HRC.

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10/6/2019 11:34 PM

SoCalMX70 wrote:

So many posts of people minimizing rider skill.

Lieb was the only guy that had a significant engine disadvantage in the whole event imo.

What about Villopoto or Webb? Those guys don't suffer lack of talent either

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10/7/2019 3:19 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/7/2019 3:21 AM

Coming out of retirement, coming off of injury and never riding a 2 stroke since his EARLY mini days. Roczen was sharp. Plus whoops and scrubbing aren't really Webb's strong points.

Edit, forgot to quote previous post

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10/7/2019 3:28 AM

Think Reed and RC have both said the Yamaha and the Zook - a blue copy - were better

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Cheers, Crush
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10/7/2019 3:39 AM

CR22 mentioned on DMXS a little while ago they were trying to get a factory RM to the event. Would be good to see all the old works bikes run again.

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10/7/2019 4:25 AM

JMX82 wrote:

What about Villopoto or Webb? Those guys don't suffer lack of talent either

Rider Skill: Ryan Sipes said that Kenny is Kenny and he would be happy to just be close. Everyone knew Kenny would be in the final as long as he didn't crash.

Injuries: Webb has been off the bike and RV crashed hard on Friday trying to follow Hansen.

Bike Development: Bikes haven't gotten that much better since the late 90's early 2000's. I'm not any faster on my FX than I would be on my 98 YZ250, just more comfortable and don't have to mess with jets. Yamaha is on the same suspension since 2006, which every other company is now going back to. Kinda like mountain bikes, once you get to a certain point, you gotta change the wheel sizes to get people thinking that they're getting better. "29 is better than 26 because it rolls over obstacles better. What's that, 29 inch wheels flex too much? Well I've got these 27.5 inch wheels that are better than 29's because they flex less..."
Marketing works way better than most want to admit.

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10/7/2019 5:05 AM

Somewhere in this forum I read that this CR250 was about a $100,000 bike. If this is anywhere close to the truth, then surely that bike was the best out there - by about a 10 to 1 ratio, at least money wise.

So this bike was basically the best Honda could do with a 2 stroke factory motocross bike.

And yes, Roczen was probably the most talented rider in the field.

So best rider, best bike, predictable results.

No doubt that a stock 2020 KTM 250 is better than a stock 2006 Honda CR250.

But was anywhere near as much time, effort & money put into those KTMs as was put into that CR250?

And while I personally don't want to see a manufacturer that no longer makes 2 stokes win RBSR (exceptions for the 500s), it is very cool to see these old 'masterpiece' bikes brought back for a little more usage.

I mean what else are they going to do with them?

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10/7/2019 5:21 AM

Yeah it wasn’t a flat drag race

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Cheers, Crush
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10/7/2019 5:27 AM

Cool to see Brandon Hartranft do that well, he was also TQ. It was shocking to see Webb and Villo get knocked out that quick, but hey the sport is good hands right !! Also with Kenny winning, my 02 is that bike and rider meshed well and that was the key to the top step of the podium. I hope like he said in his interview that this will carry over into 2020.

Cheers Vital Village.

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10/7/2019 6:10 AM

KX500 wrote:

Somewhere in this forum I read that this CR250 was about a $100,000 bike. If this is anywhere close to the truth, then surely that bike was the best out there - by about a 10 to 1 ratio, at least money wise.

So this bike was basically the best Honda could do with a 2 stroke factory motocross bike.

And yes, Roczen was probably the most talented rider in the field.

So best rider, best bike, predictable results.

No doubt that a stock 2020 KTM 250 is better than a stock 2006 Honda CR250.

But was anywhere near as much time, effort & money put into those KTMs as was put into that CR250?

And while I personally don't want to see a manufacturer that no longer makes 2 stokes win RBSR (exceptions for the 500s), it is very cool to see these old 'masterpiece' bikes brought back for a little more usage.

I mean what else are they going to do with them?

Money wise, the KTM has had WAY more than $100,000 worth of development since 2006.

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10/7/2019 6:13 AM

Kenny wins Straight Rhythm on a Honda -- people talk about how the bike must be great.

Kenny wins 2016 450 National Championship on a Suzuki -- people talk about how good Kenny is to overcome the bike.

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10/7/2019 7:24 AM

Yes. Those bikes were & still are that good. People can try to down play it, but the last gen AF CR accomplishments speak for themselves.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

10/7/2019 7:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/7/2019 7:45 AM

All those 250s were insane in their prime, I remember a big write up in Dirt Bike mag or Racer X on Stews 250, broke down all the cost it was insane. But the late CR’s were not on the same level as the Yamaha and Suzuki’s, as stated before Suzuki just basically copied the YZ engine. And I’d say that Suzuki was the cream of the crop considering Reedy wanted on it so bad for 05 after Yamaha promised the aluminum frame would be better than the steel and wasn’t.

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10/7/2019 7:45 AM

MXVet261 wrote:

Kenny wins Straight Rhythm on a Honda -- people talk about how the bike must be great.

Kenny wins 2016 450 National Championship on a Suzuki -- people talk about how good Kenny is to overcome the bike.

Shut -up -!

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10/7/2019 8:12 AM

Sharc -- I wonder if Kenny had aftermarket motor mounts on that CR.

Someone needs to give me the FEA analysis of that late generation CR frame and all flex testing reports HRC has before I will think that old Honda was any good....LOL

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10/7/2019 8:21 AM

MXVet261 wrote:

Sharc -- I wonder if Kenny had aftermarket motor mounts on that CR.

Someone needs to give me the FEA analysis of that late generation CR frame and all flex testing reports HRC has before I will think that old Honda was any good....LOL

LOL - I was talking with "Uncle Tom Hudak at DaveFest this weekend and he's tried the Ti motor mounts .
Says it's night & day different.
Did the testing twice - same day, same track.
He's a believer.
And - Everyone knows Uncle Tom is a guru.

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10/7/2019 8:25 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/7/2019 8:25 AM

kage173 wrote:

They were pretty good. But mostly that was Roczen facing inferior talent

Hanny could’ve easily wont the whole thing. Yes, Roczen is INSANELY talented, but calling the competition inferior is disrespectful

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10/7/2019 8:25 AM

Ken won it period. was the bike strong? Hell yes but Hanny also made it to the semi on a Honda.

Had it been an all KTM final then people would say it was the bike.



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10/7/2019 8:25 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/7/2019 8:26 AM

At some point Mc and the FEA analysis didn't see eye to eye either .

Show Me the DATA !!!

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10/7/2019 8:29 AM

Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike, but what yr. ? Engine & suspension modifications ?

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

10/7/2019 8:33 AM

JMX82 wrote:

After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what is different inside those HRC engines compared tho stock motor? The bike sounded completely different than the stock CR250 engine.

I remember Ricky Carmichael beating Stefan Everts's works YZ450f riding his CR250 back in 2003 at Zolder MXON race so those bikes must have been plenty fast. Seems to me that Honda had perfected their factory CR250 just before they quit racing it.

No, they were terrible. I remember thinking I would never ride an aluminum frame Honda ever again. The Yamaha was head and shoulders above all the other bikes and its why they are still being made and are the best after so many years.

That bike won because of the rider that was riding it, plain and simple

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10/7/2019 8:43 AM

H4L wrote:

Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike, but what yr. ? Engine & suspension modifications ?

05 from Carey hart

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10/7/2019 8:50 AM

H4L wrote:

Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike, but what yr. ? Engine & suspension modifications ?

It was a 2005 built by the Bills Pipes crew.
Hansen said he called Mike Gosselarr and that’s who he recommended.

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10/7/2019 8:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/7/2019 8:54 AM

JMX82 wrote:

After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what is different inside those HRC engines compared tho stock motor? The bike sounded completely different than the stock CR250 engine.

I remember Ricky Carmichael beating Stefan Everts's works YZ450f riding his CR250 back in 2003 at Zolder MXON race so those bikes must have been plenty fast. Seems to me that Honda had perfected their factory CR250 just before they quit racing it.

MotoX85 wrote:

No, they were terrible. I remember thinking I would never ride an aluminum frame Honda ever again. The Yamaha was head and shoulders above all the other bikes and its why they are still being made and are the best after so many years.

That bike won because of the rider that was riding it, plain and simple

You rode an HRC factory 250 and decided they were terrible?

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10/7/2019 8:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/7/2019 9:18 AM

lo95co380 wrote:

05 from Carey hart

Do you know if it had any engine / suspension mods ? It was good to see a 3rd gen. CR make it to the final qtr. bracket & podium that didn't have an HRC engine or possibly works suspension as well.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

10/7/2019 8:57 AM

JWACK wrote:

It was a 2005 built by the Bills Pipes crew.
Hansen said he called Mike Gosselarr and that’s who he recommended.

Thnxz for the info..

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

10/7/2019 8:58 AM

That bike was really sweet but I'm guessing Roczen could have had the same result on the '96 which would have been over the top cool.

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