Where are the Endurocross Fans at?? Not in Reno

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9/24/2017 9:45 PM

Awesome racing in Reno, Hats off to all the riders for putting on such a great show. Look I know this isn't going to get Supercross numbers but that Livestock arena was EMPTY. Also on Youtube 2500 views?!

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9/24/2017 10:21 PM

I was planning on going but ended up having to go to a baby shower. I've gotten about 30 minutes into it on youtube tho.

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9/24/2017 10:33 PM

Everyone to their own, but I find endurocross frustrating to watch. I know it's ballsy to do though

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9/24/2017 10:37 PM

i know its hard and have respect for the riders. i'd rather watch paint dry tho. its kinda like golf. fun to play, horrible to watch.

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9/25/2017 12:49 AM

They tried to turn it into Supercross with big jumps, what always made it good was the low speed bar to bar stuff, riders who cant jump stuff wont bother going, and neither will their friends/family/sponsors... just the same as Supermoto.. invent a great format and then fuck with it till its dead.

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9/25/2017 6:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/25/2017 6:58 AM

philG wrote:

They tried to turn it into Supercross with big jumps, what always made it good was the low speed bar to bar stuff, riders who cant jump stuff wont bother going, and neither will their friends/family/sponsors... just the same as Supermoto.. invent a great format and then fuck with it till its dead.

Are you referring to before or after Eric Peronnard took over as promoter for Endurocross? (that just happened during the off season). The tracks are actually more toned down this season (so far) to encourage a higher regional "amateur" rider turnout. I think the sport will see positive growth under the new regime..

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Positively, absolutely 110% obsessed with anything MOTO.

9/25/2017 8:16 AM

Oh hes going over a log... and another log.. now a tire.... hes making a turn. Very action packed racing here tonight.. (just kidding) but seriously its just not as big as supercross or motocross

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9/25/2017 9:31 AM

A big thing that shocked me was the additional fees Ticketmaster added on to every ticket purchase online. Almost $16 more per ticket. This almost made me skip the event until I called the venue and found out purchasing them at a box office didn't have the ridiculous fees added.

I'm all for convenience for online purchasing, but I would be willing to bet that many who looked online immediately crossed it off their agenda after seeing the total price and didn't call like I did.

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9/25/2017 9:34 AM

The live webcast was awesome! I watched the entire program.

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9/25/2017 9:47 AM

F150Motocrosser wrote:

Are you referring to before or after Eric Peronnard took over as promoter for Endurocross? (that just happened during the off season). The tracks are actually more toned down this season (so far) to encourage a higher regional "amateur" rider turnout. I think the sport will see positive growth under the new regime..

My buddy went and posted a video from what i assumed was practice, i huge tyre topped kicker double is just asking for trouble IMO..

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9/25/2017 9:51 AM

I went to the Atlanta round two years ago and LOVED it. They haven't been back since and the Gwinnett arena was pretty decently filled up.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
Current project #2: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1 rider/racer resto
1989 KX125 resto
1987 RM250 resto

9/25/2017 10:42 AM

I'm beginning to think if you put the word "Enduro" in it "Moto" fans want nothing to do with it.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/25/2017 1:04 PM

I don't post much but felt a need to respond on a few items -

To put some perspective on things and offer full disclosure.......I am the floor director / racing manager for the Endurocross series. I am also a former AMA Supermoto promoter as well as many, many other events. I am probably uniquely qualified to address PhilG comment on that basis

PhilG - big jumps didn't kill Supermoto. Far from it. This isn't the place for that discussion but I was in the middle of all that and it wasn't jumps that hurt the series. It isn't our plan for Endurocross either. We didn't have any rider that I am aware of that had a complaint. If you aren't comfortable jumping there was still a quick way through that section..... you didn't have to jump. Many of the amateurs didn't try.......we are trying to offer a racey track with an emphasis on making it amateur friendly without sacrificing great racing for the Pro riders. Based on amateur entries thus far it is working. .

thearc - Thanks for attending. We had a good turnout for a totally new market. It will take some time to develop. As for YouTube views......we don't rely on that much. Endurocross.com and dirtrider.com are used to measure success. We were shocked at how high the numbers were for Vegas.

In a general sense there is no thought of having SX type crowds. Won't happen......ever.

If you describe a good racing event as including many lead changes and passes it is hard to beat EX. If you measure it by how tight the championship is, EX has that. Rivalry.....yep got that covered.

Changes were made and are continuing to be made to make better racing, excitement for the crowd and a way for amateurs to participate. There are people who are very change resistant and others who welcome it in an effort to improve.

I was with a very well known pro from an entirely different racing sport at Reno and his comment was " wow...this is REALLY great racing"

Endurocross may not excite everyone and that is OK. For those it does excite they are very loyal, enthusiastic fans.

We all listen to the racers, teams and fans input. We try to adjust as needed to make racing safe, tight and fun.

Hope that didn't bore anyone and rest assured that everyone on the team is working really hard to deliver exciting racing. The Bonnier group is very committed and excited about Endurocross. Eric Peronnard the creator of Endurocross is very involved and excited about the future.



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9/25/2017 1:12 PM

TomZ wrote:

I don't post much but felt a need to respond on a few items -

To put some perspective on things and offer full disclosure.......I am the floor director / racing manager for the Endurocross series. I am also a former AMA Supermoto promoter as well as many, many other events. I am probably uniquely qualified to address PhilG comment on that basis

PhilG - big jumps didn't kill Supermoto. Far from it. This isn't the place for that discussion but I was in the middle of all that and it wasn't jumps that hurt the series. It isn't our plan for Endurocross either. We didn't have any rider that I am aware of that had a complaint. If you aren't comfortable jumping there was still a quick way through that section..... you didn't have to jump. Many of the amateurs didn't try.......we are trying to offer a racey track with an emphasis on making it amateur friendly without sacrificing great racing for the Pro riders. Based on amateur entries thus far it is working. .

thearc - Thanks for attending. We had a good turnout for a totally new market. It will take some time to develop. As for YouTube views......we don't rely on that much. Endurocross.com and dirtrider.com are used to measure success. We were shocked at how high the numbers were for Vegas.

In a general sense there is no thought of having SX type crowds. Won't happen......ever.

If you describe a good racing event as including many lead changes and passes it is hard to beat EX. If you measure it by how tight the championship is, EX has that. Rivalry.....yep got that covered.

Changes were made and are continuing to be made to make better racing, excitement for the crowd and a way for amateurs to participate. There are people who are very change resistant and others who welcome it in an effort to improve.

I was with a very well known pro from an entirely different racing sport at Reno and his comment was " wow...this is REALLY great racing"

Endurocross may not excite everyone and that is OK. For those it does excite they are very loyal, enthusiastic fans.

We all listen to the racers, teams and fans input. We try to adjust as needed to make racing safe, tight and fun.

Hope that didn't bore anyone and rest assured that everyone on the team is working really hard to deliver exciting racing. The Bonnier group is very committed and excited about Endurocross. Eric Peronnard the creator of Endurocross is very involved and excited about the future.



Strong work Tom! Thanks for the information.

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9/25/2017 3:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/25/2017 4:22 PM

For what it's worth, the view count on the Reno Endurocross bench racing, and the EnduroGP at Hawkstone park threads were pitiful. For some of the best racing on the planet, in a market segment that sells far more bikes than MX/SX does, it is disappointing. I rarely even see GNCC or Full Gas Sprint Enduro's or National Enduro's mentioned on the forum here other than some great feature stories by Vital. There is no other forum that I'm aware of that caters to these niches. There may be too many different "off road" formats and it dilutes it?

Most people are minimally aware of Endurocross, even if it does come to their town. Not many fans of any sport have the time or money to fly to races. The Live Streaming is a huge step to increase awareness and the following.
I constantly see cable TV loaded with moto formats that they can apparently get cheap. Flat track, supermoto, arenacross etc. are on all the time, even replays of last year SX series are frequently on HD.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/25/2017 3:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/25/2017 3:31 PM

philG wrote:

They tried to turn it into Supercross with big jumps, what always made it good was the low speed bar to bar stuff, riders who cant jump stuff wont bother going, and neither will their friends/family/sponsors... just the same as Supermoto.. invent a great format and then fuck with it till its dead.

F150Motocrosser wrote:

Are you referring to before or after Eric Peronnard took over as promoter for Endurocross? (that just happened during the off season). The tracks are actually more toned down this season (so far) to encourage a higher regional "amateur" rider turnout. I think the sport will see positive growth under the new regime..

Did you realize Eric invented endurocross? Did you realize Eric was who got motorcycles in X Games? Did you realize Eric is who has flat track in the X Games?

You are correct Eric sold the series and this is the 1st year he is not promoting it and that is why it is 100% only in the west this year.

Eric and his crew is famous at getting HUGE things done for motorcycling.

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9/25/2017 3:29 PM

philG wrote:

They tried to turn it into Supercross with big jumps, what always made it good was the low speed bar to bar stuff, riders who cant jump stuff wont bother going, and neither will their friends/family/sponsors... just the same as Supermoto.. invent a great format and then fuck with it till its dead.

As a many years sponsor that has done things in Supermoto and Endurocross I completely disagree with your opinion.

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9/25/2017 3:29 PM

For some reason Endurocross just does not appeal to me, I tried to watch it on the web last week and I just got distracted.

I am planning to attend it live in PHX / Scottsdale AZ in a few weeks and hope seeing it live will change my interest.

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9/25/2017 3:41 PM

500guy wrote:

For some reason Endurocross just does not appeal to me, I tried to watch it on the web last week and I just got distracted.

I am planning to attend it live in PHX / Scottsdale AZ in a few weeks and hope seeing it live will change my interest.

It is very exciting to watch live. Watched it for the 1st time in Vegas 2 years ago and did again last year and they are packed. Went to last years 1st race in Atlanta and it was great racing.

You will have fun!

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9/25/2017 3:44 PM

Please bring it back to Atlanta next year.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
Current project #2: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1 rider/racer resto
1989 KX125 resto
1987 RM250 resto

9/25/2017 3:54 PM

500guy wrote:

For some reason Endurocross just does not appeal to me, I tried to watch it on the web last week and I just got distracted.

I am planning to attend it live in PHX / Scottsdale AZ in a few weeks and hope seeing it live will change my interest.

Jay, you'll like it when you go in person. It's kind of like watching hockey on TV. It can be a little hard to follow because there is so much going on. But in person its great. Then if you follow it enough, watching on TV/internet is better. And it will be PACKED in Scottsdale, as there are several riders from AZ that race the series. Last year it was a zoo. I have watched both races thus far on line and love it! We need this to grow the sport. And for that matter, what the hell else is there to watch this time of year? The NFL? Nope, not me. I can't wait for the Scottsdale race.

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9/25/2017 4:21 PM

I love endurocross, some of the most entertaining racing out there. Although this year's SX gave it a good run to! Would love to see it/try it in person and I hope the series just keeps getting stronger!

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9/25/2017 4:30 PM

TomZ wrote:

I don't post much but felt a need to respond on a few items -

To put some perspective on things and offer full disclosure.......I am the floor director / racing manager for the Endurocross series. I am also a former AMA Supermoto promoter as well as many, many other events. I am probably uniquely qualified to address PhilG comment on that basis

PhilG - big jumps didn't kill Supermoto. Far from it. This isn't the place for that discussion but I was in the middle of all that and it wasn't jumps that hurt the series. It isn't our plan for Endurocross either. We didn't have any rider that I am aware of that had a complaint. If you aren't comfortable jumping there was still a quick way through that section..... you didn't have to jump. Many of the amateurs didn't try.......we are trying to offer a racey track with an emphasis on making it amateur friendly without sacrificing great racing for the Pro riders. Based on amateur entries thus far it is working. .

thearc - Thanks for attending. We had a good turnout for a totally new market. It will take some time to develop. As for YouTube views......we don't rely on that much. Endurocross.com and dirtrider.com are used to measure success. We were shocked at how high the numbers were for Vegas.

In a general sense there is no thought of having SX type crowds. Won't happen......ever.

If you describe a good racing event as including many lead changes and passes it is hard to beat EX. If you measure it by how tight the championship is, EX has that. Rivalry.....yep got that covered.

Changes were made and are continuing to be made to make better racing, excitement for the crowd and a way for amateurs to participate. There are people who are very change resistant and others who welcome it in an effort to improve.

I was with a very well known pro from an entirely different racing sport at Reno and his comment was " wow...this is REALLY great racing"

Endurocross may not excite everyone and that is OK. For those it does excite they are very loyal, enthusiastic fans.

We all listen to the racers, teams and fans input. We try to adjust as needed to make racing safe, tight and fun.

Hope that didn't bore anyone and rest assured that everyone on the team is working really hard to deliver exciting racing. The Bonnier group is very committed and excited about Endurocross. Eric Peronnard the creator of Endurocross is very involved and excited about the future.



As someone who only does one of these a year in the amateur class, I think you guys really took a step in the right direction with the tracks and adding a B main to the night program as well. It was getting impossible for a local guy to come out and make the amateur main since so many of those guys were running every round and the pro class as well. Ontario last year just wasn't any fun with how hard the matrix was, you couldn't even race because everyone was basically just trying to survive that one section. I liked the big tire jump in Reno as well, scared the absolute hell out of me when I hit it the first time but that was really due to the inconsistency of the tires and how much they threw you. I was the dude who broke his wheel, but that's just a freak thing and I don't think it was really the jump itself, just a weird failure. I think what caught a lot of people off guard was how much the tires actually kicked you up, and that caused a lot of carnage in the morning, but not much can be done about that and nobody had to jump it.

You're also dead on about the fans being absolute die hards, nobody I've ever taken to one of these races has left disappointed. I think people really just don't give it a chance, I almost didn't go to my first one, but after I spectators once I knew it was something I had to try myself, and I've been doing the closest round to me ever since. The Reno track was by far my favorite out of any I've previously ridden, good amount of floor space and not so terribly hard that you couldn't actually race with people. I'm indifferent on the No Joke lane, but I think the bracket racing was a great addition to the night program and makes for some exciting lines and battles.

Overall I think you guys do an awesome job at these events every year, things are very well organized and on time, which makes the whole day run smoothly. getting the webcast back up and running this year is also huge, I was able to tell my family and friends when it would be on and they were able to watch. Look at the interest it's generated right here on Vital as well, definitely a step in the right direction.

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Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

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3dpmoto.com



9/25/2017 4:49 PM

Thanks for being there and for your thoughts JM485

I thought you were hurt when I came over to you.....then I realized just really mad that your bike broke. Weird how your chain guide broke off.

Until the end of the Trialscross race I didn't realize that was you.

We all appreciate you joining us.

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9/25/2017 4:49 PM

I think it is awesome to watch, I just never know when it's on..

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Die Antwoord

9/25/2017 6:39 PM

Known Josh Greco from supercross for years and after SX was done this year he started training for Endurocross and is doing well so its being interested by Pro riders
Photo

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9/25/2017 7:13 PM

Between the day and evening events do they still have spectators leave the building and then enter again?

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9/25/2017 8:11 PM

queen of spodes wrote:

I went to the Atlanta round two years ago and LOVED it. They haven't been back since and the Gwinnett arena was pretty decently filled up.

It sure beats taking a canoe trip down to Aintree, don't it?

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9/25/2017 8:45 PM

TomZ wrote:

Thanks for being there and for your thoughts JM485

I thought you were hurt when I came over to you.....then I realized just really mad that your bike broke. Weird how your chain guide broke off.

Until the end of the Trialscross race I didn't realize that was you.

We all appreciate you joining us.

Duh, I should have put two and two together and realized that was you who helped me afterward, thanks to you and John for helping me get my POS off the track. Hopefully I wasn't a dick to either of you guys, I was just so bummed out because I had put so much into getting to this race and making sure I was all prepared and in shape, only to have my day end like that in the big bike class. I tried to keep myself in check but it's not always easy in the moment, but after thinking about it later I realized I was damn lucky it didn't break a few seconds beforehand, that could have been ugly.

Like I said, you guys deserve a lot of praise for keeping a tight schedule, thanks for all of your hard work to keep things in check. I might see you in Ontario, I feel like I need some redemption!grin

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Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

Instagram / YouTube: @485Josh

3dpmoto.com



9/25/2017 9:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/26/2017 3:22 AM

philG wrote:

They tried to turn it into Supercross with big jumps, what always made it good was the low speed bar to bar stuff, riders who cant jump stuff wont bother going, and neither will their friends/family/sponsors... just the same as Supermoto.. invent a great format and then fuck with it till its dead.

F150Motocrosser wrote:

Are you referring to before or after Eric Peronnard took over as promoter for Endurocross? (that just happened during the off season). The tracks are actually more toned down this season (so far) to encourage a higher regional "amateur" rider turnout. I think the sport will see positive growth under the new regime..

lumpy790 wrote:

Did you realize Eric invented endurocross? Did you realize Eric was who got motorcycles in X Games? Did you realize Eric is who has flat track in the X Games?

You are correct Eric sold the series and this is the 1st year he is not promoting it and that is why it is 100% only in the west this year.

Eric and his crew is famous at getting HUGE things done for motorcycling.

Just a little off. Eric actually sold it a few years ago, I don't know the exact year.

This year he is back at it with the Bonnier Group.

For the most part I agree with the amateur stuff. The B main is good, it can be extremely hard to make the amateur main and it's disappointing to have friends and family come out and not even be in the show. Been there a few times. Keeping points for the series is also a huge plus. A few years ago my son won most of his amateur main events but not
the championship because he didn't win the final.

As far as the track goes there's an easy solution, (easy for me to say- Ha Ha) as they did a few years ago. Make a hard matrix, but put pallets in it. Have a hard rock section with a turn, but have it so amateurs can hit it straight. Things like that where done at a lot of events in 2014.

As for the crowds, I don't know. Different locations definitely have more. Denver should have a good crowd. Seattle and Boise should be full! Daytona a few years ago was packed! Standing room only yet circumstances stopped us from going back.

The live stream is great. Much better than the tv package of the last few years. Good for friends and family to watch at home, plus we all can then watch it later on YouTube.

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