When will the AMA take advantage of the 2-Stroke Hype?

Cortami79
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10/22/2017 12:18pm
If they introduce a 2 stroke class, the manufactures will automatically follow
Motoxdoc
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10/22/2017 12:29pm
dkg wrote:
I am all for seeing a 125 class at Supercross. Sure would beat watching someone throw tuff bocks in a truck or bounce around in balls...
I am all for seeing a 125 class at Supercross. Sure would beat watching someone throw tuff bocks in a truck or bounce around in balls or wiener dogs race. If you kept the racing interesting the lines to the bathroom would even out. Grinning
I agree. Instead of these stupid time-killing "clown shows"....run a couple 10 lap 125 motos for an overall each night in that class, ala outdoor format. I would also suggest making them a one-off, stand alone race each week, not part of a series. That would encourage more locals at each event in this class and less elite "factory" guys. Seems like they would be perfect "learner" races for the youngens to get their feet wet in SX.
-MAVERICK-
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10/22/2017 12:48pm
dkg wrote:
I am all for seeing a 125 class at Supercross. Sure would beat watching someone throw tuff bocks in a truck or bounce around in balls...
I am all for seeing a 125 class at Supercross. Sure would beat watching someone throw tuff bocks in a truck or bounce around in balls or wiener dogs race. If you kept the racing interesting the lines to the bathroom would even out. Grinning
Motoxdoc wrote:
I agree. Instead of these stupid time-killing "clown shows"....run a couple 10 lap 125 motos for an overall each night in that class, ala outdoor format...
I agree. Instead of these stupid time-killing "clown shows"....run a couple 10 lap 125 motos for an overall each night in that class, ala outdoor format. I would also suggest making them a one-off, stand alone race each week, not part of a series. That would encourage more locals at each event in this class and less elite "factory" guys. Seems like they would be perfect "learner" races for the youngens to get their feet wet in SX.
Personally I dont think local riders and SX is a good idea. It takes a lot of skills to ride an SX track properly. Having local riders with limited to no time at all on a supercross track is a recipe for disaster.

The racing wouldn't be interesting. For example the MEC had the best supermini riders from across the US race the event. Now imagine if that was substituted with local riders. It just wouldn't work. There's already local guys attempting to qualify for the SX races in both the 250 & 450 class and they are way off the pace.

125 at the SX races would have to be pro's or the kids that race the schoolboy class at the national level. In order to get all the best schoolboy racers to line up it would have to be for 1 single event. The last round at Vegas is already packed with the East/West race so that round wouldn't work. Best option would be at one of the rounds located in the middle of the US but there wouldn't be anything special about it.

Another option would be to bring them back full time with the East/West format and run them sometime during the day and stream the races live over the internet. It would be tough since during the day there's practice for the 250 & 450 class.
Motoxdoc
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10/22/2017 1:15pm
All the top racer who DO have the skills to race SX came from somewhere LOCALLY. When did local equate to less skill and limited time on a SX track? I refer to "local" as meaning not traveling as far and spending less money. I raced all the local SX's here in So Cal in the early 80's and did just fine. Besides, If you DID eliminated all the racers who have limited time on a SX track, the gates would be half full now.....and empty in a few years.

The Shop

jeffro503
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10/22/2017 1:20pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I'm wondering which series between the GP's and the AMA nationals make the change first. My hunch is the GP's , but then again , it...
I'm wondering which series between the GP's and the AMA nationals make the change first. My hunch is the GP's , but then again , it doesn't sound like GL much cares for the MX2 class over there.

If ever there was a time to see a 250 2 stroke and a 250F on equal ground , right now would be it.
GL allowed 2 strokes to run in EMX 250 this year. Talking of the EMX, have you watched all the races yet?
Oh man!! Big surprise....Mike Kras #55. Watching the first moto of EMX 250. Had no idea they allowed the 250 2 strokes in that class. Freakin sweet!
-MAVERICK-
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10/22/2017 1:35pm
SX tracks aren't found everywhere and a lot of local racers have never been on an SX track. You think putting people with no SX skills and letting them loose on an SX track is a good idea and would provide good racing?

Of course the top guys that have the skills to ride supercross came from somewhere locally with the difference being they dedicated years to learning how to ride it.

Go take a look at the SX entry list and results from this year, last year or any other year and you'll see there's plenty of local people who attempt for the night show at their local SX race and a lot of them are way off the pace. You hear it all the time such and such rider shouldn't even be out there because they're a hazard not only to themselves but everyone else.

I'm not sure which supercross races you watch because as far as eliminating all the racers with limited SX skills/track time, they already do and the 22 best riders line up each week. The best guys make the night show and the rest go home.
10/22/2017 2:54pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I don't know which series will make the change first if ever but as demonstrated last night at RBSR in the 250 lites class neither one...
I don't know which series will make the change first if ever but as demonstrated last night at RBSR in the 250 lites class neither one really has an advantage over the other. The 2 stroke will be better in some areas and the 4 stroke will be better in other areas. They're pretty evenly matched so I don't see what the big fuss is about letting them compete against one another. We let them compete in the same class in Canada and Australia allows it as well and it's not like the races are completely dominated by 2 strokes. It's allowed in amateur racing and again it's not dominated by the 2 strokes.

I'd love to see both series change the rules to equal displacement but sadly I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.
After Kavin cleaned house the first year, they restricted engine mods on the two stroke 250s.

Pretty shitty that US continues to pad the books in favor of the big four.
10/22/2017 3:34pm
A separate two stroke class isn't needed. Just drop the displacement advantage the 250 class. No need to make it complicated.
SoCalMX70
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10/22/2017 3:40pm
250 and open class. 2 or 4 stroke. Problem solved.
jonesaustin
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10/22/2017 3:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2017 5:45pm
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what others already know - that the power delivery to weight ratio is dangerous. When people stop talking about 250 2 strokes as being the same as a 250 four stroke, which is a sheer insult.

They are still the sharks of the field.

Take jet skis. The evolution has made larger, easier-to-go-fast-on machines, but something in the marrow says a standup is still the shit.

The 2 stroke reputation is legit. They are mean, fast, and unlike anything that's come since. The problem is in how they've been portrayed, and the newer crop of riders (and press) who like to relegate them to some entry level machine for entry level guys because they're easier to repair.

Yes four strokes are powerful (so are Boeing jet engines) but four stroke advancements have made it easier to exhibit pro level skill without having earned it. They demand not near the technique - the technique which made the sport so cool.

End of story, the 250 2 stroke is the most dangerous (in a cool way) machine, the fighter jet to the advanced four stroke bombers -- bombers which enable riders of good skill to seem like they're at the top of the echelon.

In short, when they are respected for the venomous, terrifyingly fast machines they actually are.

BobPA
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10/22/2017 4:49pm
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what...
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what others already know - that the power delivery to weight ratio is dangerous. When people stop talking about 250 2 strokes as being the same as a 250 four stroke, which is a sheer insult.

They are still the sharks of the field.

Take jet skis. The evolution has made larger, easier-to-go-fast-on machines, but something in the marrow says a standup is still the shit.

The 2 stroke reputation is legit. They are mean, fast, and unlike anything that's come since. The problem is in how they've been portrayed, and the newer crop of riders (and press) who like to relegate them to some entry level machine for entry level guys because they're easier to repair.

Yes four strokes are powerful (so are Boeing jet engines) but four stroke advancements have made it easier to exhibit pro level skill without having earned it. They demand not near the technique - the technique which made the sport so cool.

End of story, the 250 2 stroke is the most dangerous (in a cool way) machine, the fighter jet to the advanced four stroke bombers -- bombers which enable riders of good skill to seem like they're at the top of the echelon.

In short, when they are respected for the venomous, terrifyingly fast machines they actually are.

I'll have whatever ever he is having. Not sure if it is in liquid or smoke form...
jonesaustin
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10/22/2017 5:47pm
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what...
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what others already know - that the power delivery to weight ratio is dangerous. When people stop talking about 250 2 strokes as being the same as a 250 four stroke, which is a sheer insult.

They are still the sharks of the field.

Take jet skis. The evolution has made larger, easier-to-go-fast-on machines, but something in the marrow says a standup is still the shit.

The 2 stroke reputation is legit. They are mean, fast, and unlike anything that's come since. The problem is in how they've been portrayed, and the newer crop of riders (and press) who like to relegate them to some entry level machine for entry level guys because they're easier to repair.

Yes four strokes are powerful (so are Boeing jet engines) but four stroke advancements have made it easier to exhibit pro level skill without having earned it. They demand not near the technique - the technique which made the sport so cool.

End of story, the 250 2 stroke is the most dangerous (in a cool way) machine, the fighter jet to the advanced four stroke bombers -- bombers which enable riders of good skill to seem like they're at the top of the echelon.

In short, when they are respected for the venomous, terrifyingly fast machines they actually are.

BobPA wrote:
I'll have whatever ever he is having. Not sure if it is in liquid or smoke form...
Well to be honest, it's drink form but it's also the truth. 2001 San Diego SX - best it has ever been. Why this is not, hands down, cited as the greatest race ever is a mystery.
jeffro503
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10/22/2017 6:54pm
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what...
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what others already know - that the power delivery to weight ratio is dangerous. When people stop talking about 250 2 strokes as being the same as a 250 four stroke, which is a sheer insult.

They are still the sharks of the field.

Take jet skis. The evolution has made larger, easier-to-go-fast-on machines, but something in the marrow says a standup is still the shit.

The 2 stroke reputation is legit. They are mean, fast, and unlike anything that's come since. The problem is in how they've been portrayed, and the newer crop of riders (and press) who like to relegate them to some entry level machine for entry level guys because they're easier to repair.

Yes four strokes are powerful (so are Boeing jet engines) but four stroke advancements have made it easier to exhibit pro level skill without having earned it. They demand not near the technique - the technique which made the sport so cool.

End of story, the 250 2 stroke is the most dangerous (in a cool way) machine, the fighter jet to the advanced four stroke bombers -- bombers which enable riders of good skill to seem like they're at the top of the echelon.

In short, when they are respected for the venomous, terrifyingly fast machines they actually are.

Hell yes brother , that was good!
Ted722
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10/22/2017 7:10pm
Well to be honest, it's drink form but it's also the truth. 2001 San Diego SX - best it has ever been. Why this is not...
Well to be honest, it's drink form but it's also the truth. 2001 San Diego SX - best it has ever been. Why this is not, hands down, cited as the greatest race ever is a mystery.
I was there. Talked to Art Eckman on the trolley/train on the way over and said hi to Roger DeCoster in the elevator. A night to remember. The race was amazing and I think even McGrath feels the same.
YamahaJT1
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10/22/2017 9:53pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2017 10:12pm
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what...
When guys like Reed and Villopoto admit the sheer talent to ride a 2 stroke requires a different level. When it's clear from the top, what others already know - that the power delivery to weight ratio is dangerous. When people stop talking about 250 2 strokes as being the same as a 250 four stroke, which is a sheer insult.

They are still the sharks of the field.

Take jet skis. The evolution has made larger, easier-to-go-fast-on machines, but something in the marrow says a standup is still the shit.

The 2 stroke reputation is legit. They are mean, fast, and unlike anything that's come since. The problem is in how they've been portrayed, and the newer crop of riders (and press) who like to relegate them to some entry level machine for entry level guys because they're easier to repair.

Yes four strokes are powerful (so are Boeing jet engines) but four stroke advancements have made it easier to exhibit pro level skill without having earned it. They demand not near the technique - the technique which made the sport so cool.

End of story, the 250 2 stroke is the most dangerous (in a cool way) machine, the fighter jet to the advanced four stroke bombers -- bombers which enable riders of good skill to seem like they're at the top of the echelon.

In short, when they are respected for the venomous, terrifyingly fast machines they actually are.

Nice post! Fully agree sans the "skill" bit. Balls are balls and up to the rider. A great running 250 2T is fucking amazing, to be sure. Loves me some 2-stroke!

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