When do we get works rules for our mxon bikes?

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10/10/2018 7:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 7:04 PM

To me, the production rule is as much a hindrance as groomed tracks are for our guys speed. They should be allowed the same bike rules. Either a true production rule for them or bring back works bikes in the 450 class, use the production rule in the 250 class. U can't tell me a guy like tomac wouldn't benefit from a different frame geometry for example, than what they sell for amateurs lol. Our bikes, they aren't even close to as trick as the bikes from over there. Period. And they are allowed to go much further than they are in mxgp currently. They can run literally whatever engine changes they want in those bikes, frame changes, all kinds of stuff.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:04 PM

gsxr6 wrote:

To me, the production rule is as much a hindrance as groomed tracks are for our guys speed. They should be allowed the same bike rules. Either a true production rule for them or bring back works bikes in the 450 class, use the production rule in the 250 class. U can't tell me a guy like tomac wouldn't benefit from a different frame geometry for example, than what they sell for amateurs lol. Our bikes, they aren't even close to as trick as the bikes from over there. Period. And they are allowed to go much further than they are in mxgp currently. They can run literally whatever engine changes they want in those bikes, frame changes, all kinds of stuff.

I could be wrong but don't we already use AMA fuel at the FIM race? And we could use works bikes at MXON if we so chose.

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10/10/2018 7:04 PM

We lost and Stewart isn’t coming back. Get over it.

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10/10/2018 7:08 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 7:10 PM

Equal rules for the bikes does sound fair though right? I mean, it's kinda the one stinky part of the whole gig of combining them in a race, is that we are limited by our own rules as far as what possible with the bike. It isn't helping us. The geometry for a sx bike, isn't the same as what's optimal for outdoor mx. That's just one example. ......

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:10 PM

gsxr6 wrote:

To me, the production rule is as much a hindrance as groomed tracks are for our guys speed. They should be allowed the same bike rules. Either a true production rule for them or bring back works bikes in the 450 class, use the production rule in the 250 class. U can't tell me a guy like tomac wouldn't benefit from a different frame geometry for example, than what they sell for amateurs lol. Our bikes, they aren't even close to as trick as the bikes from over there. Period. And they are allowed to go much further than they are in mxgp currently. They can run literally whatever engine changes they want in those bikes, frame changes, all kinds of stuff.

Alex814 wrote:

I could be wrong but don't we already use AMA fuel at the FIM race? And we could use works bikes at MXON if we so chose.

Right, but they aren't gonna build a works bike for the one race lol. We are limited by the rules of our own series, so it's our own fault.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:10 PM

You would be high to think riders are going to swap to a different bike for one weekend compared to what they have been running all year. Do you know how much testing would have to be done by the teams for this and then it is literally useless for the rest of the year.

The bikes werent the problem for the USA. You guys lost get over it and these bullshit threads.

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There are two kinds of people against dirt bikes, those who never tried and those who weren't good at them.

10/10/2018 7:10 PM

I’m all for works bikes in the AMA series but believe me the results would have still been the same. Despite what you have heard on Vital, Tomacs factory Kawasaki is not a piece of shit

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10/10/2018 7:11 PM

Searle was putting it to Tomac on a bike they rented, that they put their motor in, 3 days prior. But yes, continue on with how to GP riders bikes are that much better

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10/10/2018 7:14 PM

yeah, lets put the guys on bikes that are probably quite different than what they have ridden all year. Makes sense, good for more complaining fuel. Newsflash, It isn't the bikes that won. The excuses are really getting pathetic.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/10/2018 7:16 PM

250s were beating our 450 guys. Having a works bike wouldn’t have changed much.

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10/10/2018 7:17 PM

aeffertz wrote:

250s were beating our 450 guys. Having a works bike wouldn’t have changed much.

This is a strong point

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:19 PM

Didnt someone put a stock kx450 motor in their bike and was still competitive?

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10/10/2018 7:21 PM

I remember watching Herlings go 2 seconds a lap faster on a borrowed bike than Eli last year in Indiana, so I doubt it would matter.

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10/10/2018 7:22 PM

Here we go again butt hurt yanks with another excuse laughing laughing its getting pathetic how many threads are there now.

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10/10/2018 7:22 PM

I'm saying, let them run works bikes in sx and outdoors. Match the rules package to the fim package. But again, the 250s they ride from over their are pretty stout. Maybe if ours turned 19000 rpm, our lites guys would be more ready for a 450 when they got there. Our motors are modified from sx packages. Theirs are a whole other ball game. Esp. the 250s.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:22 PM

kb228 wrote:

Didnt someone put a stock kx450 motor in their bike and was still competitive?

Competitive as in beating Tomac, yes

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10/10/2018 7:24 PM

gsxr6 wrote:

I'm saying, let them run works bikes in sx and outdoors. Match the rules package to the fim package. But again, the 250s they ride from over their are pretty stout. Maybe if ours turned 19000 rpm, our lites guys would be more ready for a 450 when they got there. Our motors are modified from sx packages. Theirs are a whole other ball game. Esp. the 250s.

Where are you getting that info? Why would they have faster engines with lesser fuel and more restrictive exhaust in GP's? Why would 19,000 rpm help a rider for 450s?

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10/10/2018 7:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 7:36 PM

UpTiTe wrote:

I remember watching Herlings go 2 seconds a lap faster on a borrowed bike than Eli last year in Indiana, so I doubt it would matter.

But how many seconds would it be if herlings had been on his own bike? More. That's the whole point

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:26 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 7:28 PM

450 class would be even sweeter. Ferrandis and other gp riders that have made the switch are still going just as fast on our bikes with our rules.
Would be really cool to see their bikes though that’s for sure

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10/10/2018 7:27 PM

his own bike wouldn't matter if you want these guys to run works bikes for a one off. Not a magic elixir.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/10/2018 7:30 PM

gsxr6 wrote:

I'm saying, let them run works bikes in sx and outdoors. Match the rules package to the fim package. But again, the 250s they ride from over their are pretty stout. Maybe if ours turned 19000 rpm, our lites guys would be more ready for a 450 when they got there. Our motors are modified from sx packages. Theirs are a whole other ball game. Esp. the 250s.

Alex814 wrote:

Where are you getting that info? Why would they have faster engines with lesser fuel and more restrictive exhaust in GP's? Why would 19,000 rpm help a rider for 450s?

The 250f had approached that at some point over there. That rpm is how a 250 can be made competitive to a 450. Obviously that kind of rpm isn't even needed on a 450. The three speed Dixon yz250f engines were said to turn 20000 rpm and that was years ago. 60 hp out of a 250f? It's possible with enough rpm. Useless in Sx......but outdoors? Yeah I'd like to think the best riders can take advantage of any power they can get. Faster bikes? Faster riders.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:33 PM

BR8ES wrote:

his own bike wouldn't matter if you want these guys to run works bikes for a one off. Not a magic elixir.

Again it's understandable they wouldn't make bikes for the one race. I'm picturing Eli arriving to the race with his bike having equal footing with.his competition. They'd have to change the ama rules for both of our series back to pre 86.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:33 PM

The aussie weren't in works bikes and they still beat the US so it doenst make a difference it's all the pilot

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10/10/2018 7:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 7:44 PM

Helda wrote:

The aussie weren't in works bikes and they still beat the US so it doenst make a difference it's all the pilot

Another strong point. U can bet the Euro teams were proud to show how far they have come. What better way than on our own soil. The guys who pointed out that the 250s were beating us, stock engines were beating us, and Australia( who no doubt get lesser bikes than the us guys) all are correct
Works bikes in Sx would be so bitchin though. Like if your Herlings, how bad do u want to do one supercross if u can't even bring your own bike? Equal bike rules would fix that issue.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 7:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 7:44 PM

BR8ES wrote:

his own bike wouldn't matter if you want these guys to run works bikes for a one off. Not a magic elixir.

gsxr6 wrote:

Again it's understandable they wouldn't make bikes for the one race. I'm picturing Eli arriving to the race with his bike having equal footing with.his competition. They'd have to change the ama rules for both of our series back to pre 86.

it would include a bigger handicap, works and one off stuff doesn't necessarily mean better either. Trick and cool maybe.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/10/2018 9:06 PM

gsxr6 wrote:

Another strong point. U can bet the Euro teams were proud to show how far they have come. What better way than on our own soil. The guys who pointed out that the 250s were beating us, stock engines were beating us, and Australia( who no doubt get lesser bikes than the us guys) all are correct
Works bikes in Sx would be so bitchin though. Like if your Herlings, how bad do u want to do one supercross if u can't even bring your own bike? Equal bike rules would fix that issue.

Hunter Lawrence's US bike was better than his Euro bike so there is that.

And you argument about Herlings not racing Supercross because he cant bring his works bike is in competition with your argument that the Euro bikes are so much better because they are customized for motocross.

I get that you want works bikes for Supercross, im just not sure what that would achieve and in what way do you think the bikes are holding the riders back? Isn't there an argument in here each year to slow the 450's down for supercross?

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10/10/2018 9:24 PM

The bikes can be customized to the rider. And yes in a guy like Herlings case, he'd probably still be better off trying on his bike he is accustomed to. If he rode a whole Sx season I'm sure the setup would evolve from what he would bring over with him for one race, but these guys are all head cases. Just the idea that the bike is good or bad in their mind is worth a couple seconds a lap.

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when in doubt, pin it out

10/10/2018 9:24 PM

Works bike for Tomac would be a 2015 CRF 450... I know, but it was insanely fun to watch.

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There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.

10/10/2018 9:27 PM

We should get rid of the production rules in AMA so that bikes dont cost $1500 more every three years so that Joe the Factory Racer can get a steering head angle he likes more. The aftermarket will still be there for the extremely fast/wealthy.

I'm not gonna lie I do wonder how different the AMA and FIM bikes are, but it wouldn't have made a difference this year, our guys were way behind the leaders.

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10/10/2018 9:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2018 9:37 PM

Ktm has allowed allot of what goes into the bikes to show up on the showroom floor. But Herlings, Musquin,Cairoli and Webb don't all prefer the same Geometry. So not having the option of works frames holds our guys bike from reaching the fullest potential. At the speed Herlings is going, the ability to change so much is definitely a huge opportunity for them to unlock his fullest speed potential, by matching the bike as far as possible to his abilities. Our guys would have a chance to benefit from that. And the savvy testers would.

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when in doubt, pin it out