What's the point with the 450 class?

fouledplugs
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10/2/2013 12:01pm
Beast666 wrote:
I say we keep the 250F and 450F classes but we add a 300cc smoker class This will allow Mfg.s that are not part of the...
I say we keep the 250F and 450F classes but we add a 300cc smoker class This will allow Mfg.s that are not part of the US nationals like TM, Beta, Husky as well as KTM, Yamaha and Service Honda to show there bikes. There will be no homoligation rules just weight limits displacement limits and sound levels. This will allow privateers to showcase there ability while not being mired mid pack against the factory riders.

To keep costs in check a claiming rule will be in place. Any rider that finishes on the lead lap can claim one of the top 3 bikes for a set $ amount. This will keep cost in check as if a rider that spends big bucks on A-Kit suspension, port work, oversized radiators, handmade pipes, Etc. If a rider has his bike claimed they can refuse to hand over the bike if he is willing to pay the claiming price + 50%. Also there will be no factory sponsored teams so KTM, Yamaha, Etc. cannot have a paid 2 stroke rider. The same for aftermarket teams PC, FMF, are not allowed to enter riders but they can still support and sponsor riders in this class.

With this in place we all win as it lowers the cost for the privateers and gives them a second stepping stone to make it to factory support in the 4 stroke classes. It also gives the fans more racing action for there ticket price. Gives bike manufactures incentive to start producing 2 strokes again and allow Joe average rider an option to have a new bike that does not have the high prices and maintenance needs that the 4 strokes require. It will also bring in more customers to the dealers.
Doesnt AMA have it written in black and white that a racer can claim any bike in the event that it is made within 30 mins after a race and have the cash/check in hand and it be 30% over what KBB says????
philG
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10/2/2013 12:02pm
mynewcr250 wrote:
god forbid mx should be "hard work"
having to wring a bike to death every time you sit on it gets old real quick when you get past 40, give me more power than i need , and i'll just use the bit i want , when i want.

That said , my current MX bike is a CRF250.. just what came at the right money
fouledplugs
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10/2/2013 12:03pm
450...like riding a bull in a china chop......only a few can...
250....like riding miley circus.....anyone who wants to can.....
Well put!
Beast666
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10/2/2013 12:55pm
Doesnt AMA have it written in black and white that a racer can claim any bike in the event that it is made within 30 mins...
Doesnt AMA have it written in black and white that a racer can claim any bike in the event that it is made within 30 mins after a race and have the cash/check in hand and it be 30% over what KBB says????
http://www.mxsports.com/pages/rules/2013-supplemental-rules

For the AMA amateur nationals you can claim a bike for 2X the MSRP

The claiming rule has not been in place for years at the pro level after Mickey Boone almost got a hold of Bob Hannahs works OW27

http://www.mxworksbike.com/Claiming_rule.htm

The Shop

fouledplugs
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10/2/2013 1:26pm
Beast666 wrote:
http://www.mxsports.com/pages/rules/2013-supplemental-rules For the AMA amateur nationals you can claim a bike for 2X the MSRP The claiming rule has not been in place for years at...
http://www.mxsports.com/pages/rules/2013-supplemental-rules

For the AMA amateur nationals you can claim a bike for 2X the MSRP

The claiming rule has not been in place for years at the pro level after Mickey Boone almost got a hold of Bob Hannahs works OW27

http://www.mxworksbike.com/Claiming_rule.htm
Thanks for the link. Nice read
10/2/2013 1:48pm
Doesnt AMA have it written in black and white that a racer can claim any bike in the event that it is made within 30 mins...
Doesnt AMA have it written in black and white that a racer can claim any bike in the event that it is made within 30 mins after a race and have the cash/check in hand and it be 30% over what KBB says????
Beast666 wrote:
http://www.mxsports.com/pages/rules/2013-supplemental-rules For the AMA amateur nationals you can claim a bike for 2X the MSRP The claiming rule has not been in place for years at...
http://www.mxsports.com/pages/rules/2013-supplemental-rules

For the AMA amateur nationals you can claim a bike for 2X the MSRP

The claiming rule has not been in place for years at the pro level after Mickey Boone almost got a hold of Bob Hannahs works OW27

http://www.mxworksbike.com/Claiming_rule.htm
hmmmm thought it was boone who got marty tripes works honda,......
then gave it to cycle world magazine to test and take apart....
they found it to be a slightly modded stocker....
SouthwestMfg
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Diamond Springs, CA US
10/2/2013 2:16pm
John Roeder claimed Marty Tripe's works Honda at the 1979 Hangtown National. It was "not" a heavily modified stocker, full works bike at time when they still made them.

http://www.mxworksbike.com/Tripes_1979_RC250.htm

Mickey Boone tried to claim Hanna's bike in 1976 (?), he lost the draw but scared the factory teams. (link

Back to the topic - at the national level there should be a 250 and Open class. Make one production based and let one be "open". Any builder (you in your garage) could race whatever you come up with, yes there could still rules to define the open class.

Depending on the track and rider, there will always be something/somebody faster that something/somebody else. That's why the have race's.
10/2/2013 2:36pm
John Roeder claimed Marty Tripe's works Honda at the 1979 Hangtown National. It was "not" a heavily modified stocker, full works bike at time when they...
John Roeder claimed Marty Tripe's works Honda at the 1979 Hangtown National. It was "not" a heavily modified stocker, full works bike at time when they still made them.

http://www.mxworksbike.com/Tripes_1979_RC250.htm

Mickey Boone tried to claim Hanna's bike in 1976 (?), he lost the draw but scared the factory teams. (link

Back to the topic - at the national level there should be a 250 and Open class. Make one production based and let one be "open". Any builder (you in your garage) could race whatever you come up with, yes there could still rules to define the open class.

Depending on the track and rider, there will always be something/somebody faster that something/somebody else. That's why the have race's.
thanks...HaHa...woulda bet money...and lost on that one...
TeamGreen
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10/2/2013 4:09pm
So...a Whole Season...2T or 4T?

A guy wants to go do Track-Days (Say...50) and some races (Say 20) in a year: What Bike is he gonna do that with for the least amount of money? (70 days on the bike...at the track).

(New Bike, Right Now)

My answer:

1. 2013 KX450F at $1000/1500 "Off" ($7000 same as '14 for A LOT LESS. That's in CA with all the Reg & Title crap)
2. Good Oil bought 5 liters at a time (20 Filters/30 Oil Changes/1 R& R filter cover: $400/U CAN get REALLY GOOD oil cheap!)
3. 4-5 Air-Filters via DT or NoToil ($200 Oil and Cleaner included)
4. Good Renthal/DID Chains + Sprockets (Twin Ring 3 sets w/ Good Spocket Bolts $500)
5. "Smart" Tire choices/purchases (Lets say: 8 fronts/12 rears for $1700).
6. Learns to Adjust Valves (REALLY easy! $100 Shim Kit)
7. Has Enzo do his stuff ($600 Initial/$300 rebuild. They make those Forks WORK!...really nice!)
8. Maybe a Pipe & Map (As much as...oh...$900 Total)
9. Clutches (Hinson Basket/4 kits: $950)
10. Piston Kit ($200 complete)
11. Valve-Springs ($220 w/ keepers)
12. Head Rebuild ($600 w/ shipping via Fastheads. Done at sametime as Piston)
13. 2 sets Bodywork $240
14. 2 sets Graphics $200
15 Seat Cover/Foam: $130 Guts
15. Bars & Grips (2 sets Bars $180 /4 sets Grips $80: $260 total)
16. Wheel Set from RAD Mfg. Made in USA. DID LTX/Eagle hubs $1100 (A spare set of tires/wheels is just smart)
17. Tubes, etc. $500
18. Misc Oil/Lubes $250
(All of this is Delivered to your Door if ya know how to do it smartly)


Been there. Done that: X-Games Silver Medal for Todd Thompson in Moto-X Adaptive.

$15,400 for the year.
It's actually best/cheaper to have 2 bikes; but, that's a different discussion.

Heres the thing: Pump Fuel or VP T4/U4.4
NO Oil in my Fuel...which cost more than a lot of us would like to admit.

On your beloved 2T? Go put your time in on one. And add-up all your Rings, Pistons, Clutches, Replacement/Smashed Pipes, Clutches...and more clutches, Reeds...& more Reeds, Porting, New Cylinders, New Heads...those are the "Direct Replecement" parts your going to be competing with that 4T...that you hate soooo much. EVERY gallon of gas has $2 worth of OIL in it. Oh, and, add in your Ratio Right and your cool "Mixer" gas-can if you've got 1...or 2. Really want your 2T to go at the 4Ts With MAXIMUM Effect? ...gonna have to run some GOOD GAS: VP C-12. What's that cost?

Let's say a KTM 250SX (Saw one for $7200 Out The Door on Saturday. Me? I'd go with a 300XC for the same money/better bike)...you do the math on the parts for those 7 Track/Racing days; and, be honest. The math is gonna be the same or...

More.

Look, I know Kenny Mutha-F'n Powers is gonna get all up in my grill...Newmann, too; but, I'm out there payin' bills and bending wheels...it's all good...

And, it's all not necessarily the way we tell it...

Four-Strokes are cheap to run...IF you take care of'em. And, they're REALLLY easy to ride on an "Outdoor" track....fast, too.

Hell, I'm so stupid that I've got a collection of CRF250X's...&...they're looking to be the cheapest dirt-bike to run. Period. I do a little bit of motor-work...via FastHeads...FMF Pipe...Hot-Cam...Carb-Mods/Updates...Hinson-ize the Clutch...put Renthal Twin-Ring/SL/O-Ring on'em...and stuff lasts FOREVER! TIRES! They last Soooo Much longer than my 450s do. Oh, did I mention the Electric Start? I buy'em for $2500 and build a GO Any-Where bike that'll do 70 miles off-road and then go around the Glen Helen track. On ONE tank of Pump Gas (2.6 IMS Tank or Stock '04-'07). PUMP Gas. I usually end up with something that anyone can do in there garge w/ around $5K, total.

But, in the End...it's the good'ol Twin Cam 450 motors...we're talking "Motors" here...that're just cheap to run for most folks. Besides, most guys in here are Waaaay Toooo Cool to ride a 250X.
mynewcr250
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10/2/2013 5:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2013 5:48pm
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year?

i dont even care, and i think the price would be a lot closer than people make it out to be, but certainly think youre reaching a little here just like the 2 stroke guys do...
TeamGreen
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10/2/2013 7:00pm
mynewcr250 wrote:
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year? i dont even care, and i...
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year?

i dont even care, and i think the price would be a lot closer than people make it out to be, but certainly think youre reaching a little here just like the 2 stroke guys do...
This is for a Pro-Rider looking for Speed & Performance. Anyone that thinks a 250 2T is ANYWHEREnear "fast" in stock trim...?

Not being "Real"

Also, it takes A Lot of money to keep things Fresh & Fast.

A 250 requires a lot of help to make the power needed to run against even a good 250 4T.

I've done it.

A KTM 300 motor is the place to start. That needs to be my next project.
mynewcr250
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10/2/2013 7:20pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2013 7:24pm
mynewcr250 wrote:
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year? i dont even care, and i...
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year?

i dont even care, and i think the price would be a lot closer than people make it out to be, but certainly think youre reaching a little here just like the 2 stroke guys do...
TeamGreen wrote:
This is for a Pro-Rider looking for Speed & Performance. Anyone that thinks a 250 2T is ANYWHEREnear "fast" in stock trim...? Not being "Real" Also...
This is for a Pro-Rider looking for Speed & Performance. Anyone that thinks a 250 2T is ANYWHEREnear "fast" in stock trim...?

Not being "Real"

Also, it takes A Lot of money to keep things Fresh & Fast.

A 250 requires a lot of help to make the power needed to run against even a good 250 4T.

I've done it.

A KTM 300 motor is the place to start. That needs to be my next project.
i didnt say there wasnt going to be work done to the 2t. you mentioned cylinder(s) and head(s) during the "maintenance" portion of your post....

again...why are you replacing multiple cylinders and heads during a season? are we blowing these things up as a normal course of action?

maybe i dont get it because im not a pro level rider, but im having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
TeamGreen
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10/2/2013 7:26pm
mynewcr250 wrote:
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year? i dont even care, and i...
trying to figure out why youre replacing multiple cylinders and heads on the 2 stroke for 70 rides a year?

i dont even care, and i think the price would be a lot closer than people make it out to be, but certainly think youre reaching a little here just like the 2 stroke guys do...
TeamGreen wrote:
This is for a Pro-Rider looking for Speed & Performance. Anyone that thinks a 250 2T is ANYWHEREnear "fast" in stock trim...? Not being "Real" Also...
This is for a Pro-Rider looking for Speed & Performance. Anyone that thinks a 250 2T is ANYWHEREnear "fast" in stock trim...?

Not being "Real"

Also, it takes A Lot of money to keep things Fresh & Fast.

A 250 requires a lot of help to make the power needed to run against even a good 250 4T.

I've done it.

A KTM 300 motor is the place to start. That needs to be my next project.
mynewcr250 wrote:
i didnt say there wasnt going to be work done to the 2t. you mentioned cylinder(s) and head(s) during the "maintenance" portion of your post.... again...why...
i didnt say there wasnt going to be work done to the 2t. you mentioned cylinder(s) and head(s) during the "maintenance" portion of your post....

again...why are you replacing multiple cylinders and heads during a season? are we blowing these things up as a normal course of action?

maybe i dont get it because im not a pro level rider, but im having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider.

Also, really solid 250 2Ts can require a bit of crank work/maint.

I think going with a 300 could answer some of those problems, tho (& is almost "fair").
TeamGreen
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10/2/2013 7:28pm
Note: a lot of 250 2Ts require a combination of different parts from different years for a "fast" motor build (Japanese).
Trent179
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10/2/2013 7:32pm
I would like to hear the riders opinion. Would they ride a 250f in the 450 class if they were aloud? If they would then why didn't the ktm 350 go over better. A kx350f would be perfect imo. I just bought a new kawi 450, first 450 I've ever owned... I'm loving it!
TeamGreen
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10/3/2013 12:35pm
Put my money where my mouth is:

2013 KX450F $7230 OTD in Redding, CA...all taxes & title w/ registration included.

Stock Dyno #'s on Pump, VP T4 & Pro-5 (their AMA Pro-Spec fuel) will follow.

We'll start building & testing this theory from there.

I think I might have to challenge Newmann to a 4T v. 2T "Walk-Off".

Someone call David Bowie...
TeamGreen
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10/3/2013 1:19pm
Uh, my bad...MR Pro 6 is the latest VP AMA SX/MX fuel.
peelout
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Ogden, UT US
10/3/2013 1:24pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider. Also, really solid...
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider.

Also, really solid 250 2Ts can require a bit of crank work/maint.

I think going with a 300 could answer some of those problems, tho (& is almost "fair").
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM 300 was the best move ever. i get that fun 2-stroke ride, but still plenty of power and go. sucks to have to remember to get premix before 6pm on Friday though
TeamGreen
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10/3/2013 1:28pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider. Also, really solid...
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider.

Also, really solid 250 2Ts can require a bit of crank work/maint.

I think going with a 300 could answer some of those problems, tho (& is almost "fair").
peelout wrote:
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM...
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM 300 was the best move ever. i get that fun 2-stroke ride, but still plenty of power and go. sucks to have to remember to get premix before 6pm on Friday though
KTM300XC

The TRUE "Does ALL Things Moto" bike.

I call it the "Lightest Off-Road 450"...Laughing
peelout
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10/3/2013 1:35pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider. Also, really solid...
I haven't, personally, seen a fast 250 built that didn't require 2-3 cylinder/head combos to be made fast enough for a good rider.

Also, really solid 250 2Ts can require a bit of crank work/maint.

I think going with a 300 could answer some of those problems, tho (& is almost "fair").
peelout wrote:
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM...
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM 300 was the best move ever. i get that fun 2-stroke ride, but still plenty of power and go. sucks to have to remember to get premix before 6pm on Friday though
TeamGreen wrote:
KTM300XC

The TRUE "Does ALL Things Moto" bike.

I call it the "Lightest Off-Road 450"...Laughing
bingo
my old man rode it the last time we went to the desert, he had his CRF450X up for sale a month later. i know i've pimped this KTM on here like crazy, but it really is the "do it all" bike. thing rips on the track, lugs up the steep rocky bastards, and does endless wheelies over the sand whoops. i've yet to find something that it doesn't do better than any other bike i've ever ridden
TeamGreen
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10/3/2013 1:39pm
peelout wrote:
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM...
bro, after riding my 450's for the last 8 years and absolutely loving them (besides my 250f that i grenaded twice), the switch to the KTM 300 was the best move ever. i get that fun 2-stroke ride, but still plenty of power and go. sucks to have to remember to get premix before 6pm on Friday though
TeamGreen wrote:
KTM300XC

The TRUE "Does ALL Things Moto" bike.

I call it the "Lightest Off-Road 450"...Laughing
peelout wrote:
bingo my old man rode it the last time we went to the desert, he had his CRF450X up for sale a month later. i know...
bingo
my old man rode it the last time we went to the desert, he had his CRF450X up for sale a month later. i know i've pimped this KTM on here like crazy, but it really is the "do it all" bike. thing rips on the track, lugs up the steep rocky bastards, and does endless wheelies over the sand whoops. i've yet to find something that it doesn't do better than any other bike i've ever ridden
I'm gonna send ya a can of gas...

Good to go.

Right outta the bottle.

Let me get a few things in order. I can't wait to hear your opinion of it. It's a product for Home Depot/Lowes & it's better than Pump Gas and most of the oils people use. And, get this, it stores well!

Kinda nice to have someone in here that actually rides. Kinda bummed to not meet ya at MMP. You goin' to A1?
peelout
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10/3/2013 1:55pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm gonna send ya a can of gas... Good to go. Right outta the bottle. Let me get a few things in order. I can't wait...
I'm gonna send ya a can of gas...

Good to go.

Right outta the bottle.

Let me get a few things in order. I can't wait to hear your opinion of it. It's a product for Home Depot/Lowes & it's better than Pump Gas and most of the oils people use. And, get this, it stores well!

Kinda nice to have someone in here that actually rides. Kinda bummed to not meet ya at MMP. You goin' to A1?
same here, i met up with GuyB night before MMP and shot the shit, the day of the race i was running around all day. only SX i'll hit is probably Vegas, maybe the whales vagina but we'll see.
TeamGreen
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10/3/2013 1:59pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm gonna send ya a can of gas... Good to go. Right outta the bottle. Let me get a few things in order. I can't wait...
I'm gonna send ya a can of gas...

Good to go.

Right outta the bottle.

Let me get a few things in order. I can't wait to hear your opinion of it. It's a product for Home Depot/Lowes & it's better than Pump Gas and most of the oils people use. And, get this, it stores well!

Kinda nice to have someone in here that actually rides. Kinda bummed to not meet ya at MMP. You goin' to A1?
peelout wrote:
same here, i met up with GuyB night before MMP and shot the shit, the day of the race i was running around all day. only...
same here, i met up with GuyB night before MMP and shot the shit, the day of the race i was running around all day. only SX i'll hit is probably Vegas, maybe the whales vagina but we'll see.
There might be a ride down Mexico way after the Ron Burgundy Round...I'm jus' sayin'...
hillbilly
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10/3/2013 4:10pm
Dr swed,
The 250fs that run up front,tomac and pro c are using 50k powerplants and skews your perception of the comparison of
250. 450.

Those few bikes like ken,s ktm are pulling numbers like a 450 stock

You just cant compare those.

The day we ride bikes that will not break traction above 3rd gear is the day life sucks.
Imo,the class should be open,open to whatever you think you can handle.

The husky 610 i raced in early 2000,s was the most fun i had since the 1st watercool ktm 500 i raced in 85,86.
.i get wood just thinking about those 2.
TeamGreen
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10/3/2013 4:57pm
hillbilly wrote:
Dr swed, The 250fs that run up front,tomac and pro c are using 50k powerplants and skews your perception of the comparison of 250. 450. Those...
Dr swed,
The 250fs that run up front,tomac and pro c are using 50k powerplants and skews your perception of the comparison of
250. 450.

Those few bikes like ken,s ktm are pulling numbers like a 450 stock

You just cant compare those.

The day we ride bikes that will not break traction above 3rd gear is the day life sucks.
Imo,the class should be open,open to whatever you think you can handle.

The husky 610 i raced in early 2000,s was the most fun i had since the 1st watercool ktm 500 i raced in 85,86.
.i get wood just thinking about those 2.
Funny!

When I rode all the new '14 KTMs at the 3 Bros Demo, the new 350 felt almost EXACTLY like a "Factory-esque" 250.
Eddie_E
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10/4/2013 3:48pm
I seem to remember that the Arenacross series on the East coast of the US ran the 250F as the premiere class a couple years ago. The move back to the 450's came from racers who claimed that they can run one stock motor for the full season as opposed to four of the 250F works motors. The pros can really use more than a 250F.

As a B Vet rider, I personally don't go any faster on a 450, but the guys who remember the 125A class being cheap to run are mistaken. I was there and I watched the fastest guys burn a set of clutches every weekend. So add another $50 to the $2.00 a gallon worth of oil. I do love the 250 2 strokes and will buy another soon, but I'd rather see a modern 175cc two stroke class and a 300cc for the fast guys.
Matt Fisher
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Fantasy
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10/4/2013 9:11pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Put my money where my mouth is: 2013 KX450F $7230 OTD in Redding, CA...all taxes & title w/ registration included. Stock Dyno #'s on Pump, VP...
Put my money where my mouth is:

2013 KX450F $7230 OTD in Redding, CA...all taxes & title w/ registration included.

Stock Dyno #'s on Pump, VP T4 & Pro-5 (their AMA Pro-Spec fuel) will follow.

We'll start building & testing this theory from there.

I think I might have to challenge Newmann to a 4T v. 2T "Walk-Off".

Someone call David Bowie...
Horsecrap to compare a 250/300 to a 450. Compare a 250 to a 250. Just because the Pro racing rules are biased toward the valvemunchers does not mean that doing a "walk off" should be too.
Although I actually think that if cc for cc racing were permitted, the 4 strokes would still rule the 450/open class.

Your example of the KX450 cost was enlightening, thank you. I wonder what a modern 450 2-stroke would cost for maintenance... Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 250F cost substantially more than a 250T to race for a year at the pro level?
TeamGreen
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10/4/2013 9:25pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Put my money where my mouth is: 2013 KX450F $7230 OTD in Redding, CA...all taxes & title w/ registration included. Stock Dyno #'s on Pump, VP...
Put my money where my mouth is:

2013 KX450F $7230 OTD in Redding, CA...all taxes & title w/ registration included.

Stock Dyno #'s on Pump, VP T4 & Pro-5 (their AMA Pro-Spec fuel) will follow.

We'll start building & testing this theory from there.

I think I might have to challenge Newmann to a 4T v. 2T "Walk-Off".

Someone call David Bowie...
Horsecrap to compare a 250/300 to a 450. Compare a 250 to a 250. Just because the Pro racing rules are biased toward the valvemunchers does...
Horsecrap to compare a 250/300 to a 450. Compare a 250 to a 250. Just because the Pro racing rules are biased toward the valvemunchers does not mean that doing a "walk off" should be too.
Although I actually think that if cc for cc racing were permitted, the 4 strokes would still rule the 450/open class.

Your example of the KX450 cost was enlightening, thank you. I wonder what a modern 450 2-stroke would cost for maintenance... Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 250F cost substantially more than a 250T to race for a year at the pro level?
The rules are what they are; yet, we are seeing a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel with the FIM's 300 class.

A 250 2T is cheaper than a 250F when you get to run'em at this level, yes.
bullpen658
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10/4/2013 10:39pm
Are the gears still one down and five up on two strokes?

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