What's so wrong with SX?

peltier626
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10/13/2018 9:46am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2018 9:47am
JWACK wrote:
What's wrong with SX? Cookie cutter tracks and 450s. IMO
JustMX wrote:
There you go. All the hype all the time and yet there is so little knock down, drag out bar banging racing. Putting 450s on sx...
There you go.

All the hype all the time and yet there is so little knock down, drag out bar banging racing.

Putting 450s on sx tracks is like putting f1 cars on a go cart track. Yeah, it is impressive, but only that they hold them back enough to stay on the coarse.

It would be far more entertaining, as far as I am concerned, to see the field all mounted on xr 100s and pushing the bikes to their limits than the monotony of watching riders being pushed past their limits on machines with capabilities that exceed the confines of the stadiums.
Agreed. 250 cc machines proved to be enough power at the mxon, in the mud. Why wouldn't it be enough power for the smaller confines of sx tracks.
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captmoto
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10/13/2018 9:48am
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Supercross is made for TV and not as impressive in person because the tracks are much slower and the jumps are smaller. Motocross is higher speeds...
Supercross is made for TV and not as impressive in person because the tracks are much slower and the jumps are smaller. Motocross is higher speeds, huge jumps, wide open riding that's way more impressive to see in person.
And drastically changing track conditions.

SX is American riders "safe place"
.
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captmoto
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10/13/2018 9:51am
brimx153 wrote:
Imo tomac from this year ,does not beat Kenny in 15 on the rch bike. I also think he can run with Herrlings s when the...
Imo tomac from this year ,does not beat Kenny in 15 on the rch bike. I also think he can run with Herrlings s when the track is right for him . And he gets a start . If he got the starts like he got this yr in the ama and Herrlings was racing he would nt have won very many moto s at all . In fact I'd say A.C. 222 would have beat him a good few times too.


Pml.on Herrlings would get lapped.
Herlings would not get lapped. He is a monster on outdoor tracks, attacks like a tiger on a lamb. Herlings does not need "the right track" He has won on everything the the GPs have to offer.
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acres951
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10/13/2018 9:58am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2018 9:58am
JWACK wrote:
What's wrong with SX? Cookie cutter tracks and 450s. IMO
Agree. Would love to see brutally awkward supercross tracks that riders don’t like that force the best to find a “flow” and rise to the top.
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The Shop

newmann
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10/13/2018 10:15am
The butthurt would flow when Herlings discovers he is better at SX than MX.
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10/13/2018 10:18am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2018 10:19am
There's nothing "wrong" with Supercross any more than there's anything "wrong" with indoor soccer.
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lostboy819
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10/13/2018 10:36am
Silas444 wrote:
I think it all depends on whether you came into moto pre-McGrath - or not. For those of us who are pre-McGrath, Supercross is just too...
I think it all depends on whether you came into moto pre-McGrath - or not. For those of us who are pre-McGrath, Supercross is just too flashy and sanitized for a sport we see as a test of athleticism and endurance that properly takes place outdoors and in rain-or-shine conditions (like what just happened at Red Bud, for example). Myself, I love racing on a muddy track, because I can beat guys who can smoke me in dryer conditions. But for those of us who came in during McGrath's reign or after, Supercross, which has an absurd risk/reward factor but also carries the allure of riches, mainstream fame, and beautiful women, is where it's at. Some on here call Supercross a "circus" as a way of dismissing it, not realizing that, for many, if not most, of today's young racers, that 'circus-like' atmosphere is what they're drawn to. No Euro who's come here to race Supercross has done so hoping for the chance to become an unknown recluse, that's for damn sure; and few, if any, Americans who have gone to Europe to race have ever come back more famous and wealthy than they would have been if they'd stayed and won races here in the States. Just ask Mark Blackwell, Brad Lackey, Jim Pomeroy, Mike Guerra, Zach Osborne, Thomas Covington, etcetera, etcetera.
I think the Pre McGrath SX was the best, watching Hannah,Johnson,Bailey,Bradshaw, Omara,Chandler etc and jumps like the Coca Cola catapult and gator pit made SX great.
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mrpiano
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10/13/2018 12:01pm
Herlings whould win an supercross world championship in his rookie season, most of all retards on this site dont understanding willpower and talent
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cbuehler767
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10/13/2018 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 10/13/2018 12:47pm
Herlings is king outdoors, but why is outdoors the standard for talent? Supercross takes plenty of talent. Put Herlings on a sx track against Eli and...
Herlings is king outdoors, but why is outdoors the standard for talent? Supercross takes plenty of talent. Put Herlings on a sx track against Eli and he'd get lapped. In fact, I'll go one step further and say that on most typical AMA tracks, with normal conditions, Eli is just as fast as Herlings. Yet, Eli has experience and talent on both types of tracks. The point here is that one race in the mud and sand doesn't prove as much as a lot of people want it to.
Prntscrn wrote:
When did they race eachother in the sand? Just wait till Assen next year then Tomac actually might get lapped by Herlings. Just as he did...
When did they race eachother in the sand? Just wait till Assen next year then Tomac actually might get lapped by Herlings. Just as he did to the American boys in Lommel.
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings would get lapped in SX
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10/13/2018 12:59pm
mrpiano wrote:
Herlings whould win an supercross world championship in his rookie season, most of all retards on this site dont understanding willpower and talent
mrpiano, I wonder if Americans go to Swedish MX site forums and tell all of their native users (from Sweden) that they are "retards". Besides never winning the MXdN ever or at least in the past 30+ years, not having your own native language MX forum (apparently that's the case b/c you are here) , it must be frustrating , sorry man , hopefully your country will win a record # of total MXdN's between now and 2049 & you'll find a very popular Swedish MX forum site to spend time in & not have to go to an American site and refer to folks as "retards" as you did above.
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Dropbear
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10/13/2018 4:31pm
Just my opinion, SX is boring after a couple of races for me. Mainly because location and geography make no difference. Just an artificial track built on flat ground.....
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RG1
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10/13/2018 5:13pm
Motocross is the grass roots of the sport, where it came from. It will always be the pinnacle of the sport in my eyes. Its real racing. SX is good because it comes around when there has been no racing for a long time and everyone is raring for it to start again. But give me motocross all day long over SX which is essentially the same obstacles week after week in a slightly different order.
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RG1
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10/13/2018 5:15pm
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings...
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings would get lapped in SX
I remember many people saying the same about Baggett at Lommel. The guy who led France to victory at Red Bud got lapped by Herlings at Assen this year
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lostboy819
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10/13/2018 8:02pm
RG1 wrote:
Motocross is the grass roots of the sport, where it came from. It will always be the pinnacle of the sport in my eyes. Its real...
Motocross is the grass roots of the sport, where it came from. It will always be the pinnacle of the sport in my eyes. Its real racing. SX is good because it comes around when there has been no racing for a long time and everyone is raring for it to start again. But give me motocross all day long over SX which is essentially the same obstacles week after week in a slightly different order.
When they changed the nationals from Sundays to Saturday is when I started losing interest because I work Saturdays and off on Sunday.
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lostboy819
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10/13/2018 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 10/13/2018 8:05pm
mrpiano wrote:
Herlings whould win an supercross world championship in his rookie season, most of all retards on this site dont understanding willpower and talent
mrpiano, I wonder if Americans go to Swedish MX site forums and tell all of their native users (from Sweden) that they are "retards". Besides never...
mrpiano, I wonder if Americans go to Swedish MX site forums and tell all of their native users (from Sweden) that they are "retards". Besides never winning the MXdN ever or at least in the past 30+ years, not having your own native language MX forum (apparently that's the case b/c you are here) , it must be frustrating , sorry man , hopefully your country will win a record # of total MXdN's between now and 2049 & you'll find a very popular Swedish MX forum site to spend time in & not have to go to an American site and refer to folks as "retards" as you did above.
Funny how all foreigners come to the vitalmx website in the USA .I wondering there is a way to build a wall to keep them out,let them go to their own moto websites in their own country ,build a wall build a wall Cool
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cbuehler767
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10/13/2018 8:14pm
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings...
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings would get lapped in SX
RG1 wrote:
I remember many people saying the same about Baggett at Lommel. The guy who led France to victory at Red Bud got lapped by Herlings at...
I remember many people saying the same about Baggett at Lommel. The guy who led France to victory at Red Bud got lapped by Herlings at Assen this year
Tomac should have been sent that yr not Bagget. Bagger was on 250 not even the same comparison either. Did he lap Dungey or Barcia?
FARANG
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10/13/2018 8:15pm
Supercross is the main reason Americans are now second best outdoors.

That, and the overly groomed AMA outdoor tracks.

It’s pretty obvious.
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clem
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10/13/2018 8:32pm
Dropbear wrote:
Just my opinion, SX is boring after a couple of races for me. Mainly because location and geography make no difference. Just an artificial track built...
Just my opinion, SX is boring after a couple of races for me. Mainly because location and geography make no difference. Just an artificial track built on flat ground.....
MXoN next year will be an artificial track built on flat ground. Should be ho hum but some say it's "proper" sand so it's okay.
Dropbear
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10/14/2018 1:07am
Dropbear wrote:
Just my opinion, SX is boring after a couple of races for me. Mainly because location and geography make no difference. Just an artificial track built...
Just my opinion, SX is boring after a couple of races for me. Mainly because location and geography make no difference. Just an artificial track built on flat ground.....
clem wrote:
MXoN next year will be an artificial track built on flat ground. Should be ho hum but some say it's "proper" sand so it's okay.
Not a fan of that either. But then I’m old.
mrpiano
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10/14/2018 1:45am Edited Date/Time 10/14/2018 2:06am
mrpiano wrote:
Herlings whould win an supercross world championship in his rookie season, most of all retards on this site dont understanding willpower and talent
mrpiano, I wonder if Americans go to Swedish MX site forums and tell all of their native users (from Sweden) that they are "retards". Besides never...
mrpiano, I wonder if Americans go to Swedish MX site forums and tell all of their native users (from Sweden) that they are "retards". Besides never winning the MXdN ever or at least in the past 30+ years, not having your own native language MX forum (apparently that's the case b/c you are here) , it must be frustrating , sorry man , hopefully your country will win a record # of total MXdN's between now and 2049 & you'll find a very popular Swedish MX forum site to spend time in & not have to go to an American site and refer to folks as "retards" as you did above.
Hahaha what a sucker... forgot about Torsten hallman who came overseas to show you guys this sport from the begining

Then take a look at your fast guys here

why do you guys have such a hard time to show respect for the fastest guys in the world?

You just have an national championship as all other countrys
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RG1
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10/14/2018 1:55am
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings...
Don't be stupid. Herlings is amazing I've said that all year way before the MXdN. Tomac's not getting lapped. That's as dumb as people saying Herlings would get lapped in SX
RG1 wrote:
I remember many people saying the same about Baggett at Lommel. The guy who led France to victory at Red Bud got lapped by Herlings at...
I remember many people saying the same about Baggett at Lommel. The guy who led France to victory at Red Bud got lapped by Herlings at Assen this year
Tomac should have been sent that yr not Bagget. Bagger was on 250 not even the same comparison either. Did he lap Dungey or Barcia?
I highly doubt the outcome would've been any different. Baggett was the 250 national champ. He finished 2 minutes in front of Dungey, which at Assen, means you're a lap down. Also bearing in mind that he was probably 25 secs down on Dungey at the start
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10/14/2018 3:09pm
mrpiano wrote:
Hahaha what a sucker... forgot about Torsten hallman who came overseas to show you guys this sport from the begining Then take a look at your...
Hahaha what a sucker... forgot about Torsten hallman who came overseas to show you guys this sport from the begining

Then take a look at your fast guys here

why do you guys have such a hard time to show respect for the fastest guys in the world?

You just have an national championship as all other countrys
I don't think anyone from the US is going to other nation's forums and giving their riders / fans a rough time. I never said that the US should have won or downplayed the results of last week's MXdN.




If you want to show moto stats for a single race how about Tomac's from 2016, 2 yrs ago when he finished 1st 4 of 4 moto's (including Glen Helen against TonyC, Febvre, Tim G, etc) and Tomac finished well ahead of everyone. If I'd look up those timings, all 4 moto's from both USGP's would show Tomac as a bit faster than all of the 450 MXGP guys for those 2 weekends - so here's last year's (as it's more recent and includes Herlings on the 450) timings where Tomac finished around 30 sec in front of Herlings & around 1min ahead of Coldenhoff. So i don't think last year 2017 that Tomac went from beating those guys soundly in a moto to suddenly they can all lap him and Tomac can't touch Lupino.

The 4 moto's of MXGP that Tomac swept 2 years ago and the moto he won just 1 year ago (which he finished 3rd in the 2nd moto last year behind Herlings / Tony C) - 1 race does not tell everything. Yes , MXGP 450 class is ahead of the US at the moment in outdoors, pure motocross as a whole for sure, most everyone here will say that. But no reason to call US fans here "retards" and spend your time in another country's forums berating their users. I'm still sure there weren't many if any US fans posting on MXGP based forums being so harsh to their members, I sure hope not anyway.

To match your timings above, lets take MXGP results from just a year ago (in the MX2 class Hampshire swept both motos beating Lawrence, Jonass, Prado, etc & at the time RJ Hampshire had never even won a US national, it was his 1st pro win when a year ago he swept the MX2 MXGP class in Florida - so now suddenly just 1 year later the US riders are horrible ? If based on just a couple of moto's how about RJ's sweep of Prado, and others last year? It's just a couple of moto's. Also Barcia last week couldn't beat Candad's Tyler M. - that normally never would happen, it was just a really bad day for whatever reason, no excuses the US definitely didn't do well last week but for the most part only a small handful of US riders ride USGP's but usually win.

It would take a series to really gauge everyone though surely overall in outdoors especially 5th - 15th MXGP would be ahead likely but just b/c last week went so badly u suddenly throw out that RJ beat all of MX2 MXGP a year ago and Tomac shared moto wins with Herlings having won the 1st one as shown in the pic below by nearly 30 sec?

It takes more than a race or two to really know what's up though again MXGP is ahead of the US in outdoors overall which they should be now that as if you watched the MEC last night which i'm sure you did not but you'd see all of the top kids coming up which is the trend for many years now , it's all about Supercross, even more than ever with amatuer supercross races on sunday's after 9 full SX races in 2019.


Taking so much time away from motocross to learn supercross (shorter races, focusing on SX skills) will and has over time taken a toll on outdoor skills it seems. It is what it is, no need to go to another country's forums and call their users retards when most here admit that MXGP is ahead in motocross. An excuse / reason for a decline in pure US moto outdoor skills , yep, but it is what it is.


ATKpilot99
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10/14/2018 3:13pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2018 3:14pm
mrpiano wrote:
Hahaha what a sucker... forgot about Torsten hallman who came overseas to show you guys this sport from the begining Then take a look at your...
Hahaha what a sucker... forgot about Torsten hallman who came overseas to show you guys this sport from the begining

Then take a look at your fast guys here

why do you guys have such a hard time to show respect for the fastest guys in the world?

You just have an national championship as all other countrys
I don't think anyone from the US is going to other nation's forums and giving their riders / fans a rough time. I never said that...
I don't think anyone from the US is going to other nation's forums and giving their riders / fans a rough time. I never said that the US should have won or downplayed the results of last week's MXdN.




If you want to show moto stats for a single race how about Tomac's from 2016, 2 yrs ago when he finished 1st 4 of 4 moto's (including Glen Helen against TonyC, Febvre, Tim G, etc) and Tomac finished well ahead of everyone. If I'd look up those timings, all 4 moto's from both USGP's would show Tomac as a bit faster than all of the 450 MXGP guys for those 2 weekends - so here's last year's (as it's more recent and includes Herlings on the 450) timings where Tomac finished around 30 sec in front of Herlings & around 1min ahead of Coldenhoff. So i don't think last year 2017 that Tomac went from beating those guys soundly in a moto to suddenly they can all lap him and Tomac can't touch Lupino.

The 4 moto's of MXGP that Tomac swept 2 years ago and the moto he won just 1 year ago (which he finished 3rd in the 2nd moto last year behind Herlings / Tony C) - 1 race does not tell everything. Yes , MXGP 450 class is ahead of the US at the moment in outdoors, pure motocross as a whole for sure, most everyone here will say that. But no reason to call US fans here "retards" and spend your time in another country's forums berating their users. I'm still sure there weren't many if any US fans posting on MXGP based forums being so harsh to their members, I sure hope not anyway.

To match your timings above, lets take MXGP results from just a year ago (in the MX2 class Hampshire swept both motos beating Lawrence, Jonass, Prado, etc & at the time RJ Hampshire had never even won a US national, it was his 1st pro win when a year ago he swept the MX2 MXGP class in Florida - so now suddenly just 1 year later the US riders are horrible ? If based on just a couple of moto's how about RJ's sweep of Prado, and others last year? It's just a couple of moto's. Also Barcia last week couldn't beat Candad's Tyler M. - that normally never would happen, it was just a really bad day for whatever reason, no excuses the US definitely didn't do well last week but for the most part only a small handful of US riders ride USGP's but usually win.

It would take a series to really gauge everyone though surely overall in outdoors especially 5th - 15th MXGP would be ahead likely but just b/c last week went so badly u suddenly throw out that RJ beat all of MX2 MXGP a year ago and Tomac shared moto wins with Herlings having won the 1st one as shown in the pic below by nearly 30 sec?

It takes more than a race or two to really know what's up though again MXGP is ahead of the US in outdoors overall which they should be now that as if you watched the MEC last night which i'm sure you did not but you'd see all of the top kids coming up which is the trend for many years now , it's all about Supercross, even more than ever with amatuer supercross races on sunday's after 9 full SX races in 2019.


Taking so much time away from motocross to learn supercross (shorter races, focusing on SX skills) will and has over time taken a toll on outdoor skills it seems. It is what it is, no need to go to another country's forums and call their users retards when most here admit that MXGP is ahead in motocross. An excuse / reason for a decline in pure US moto outdoor skills , yep, but it is what it is.


There really are no MXGP based forums. Mxtrax had the closest and if you were an American shit talking like some non Americans do here you were immediately banned.
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WCRider
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10/14/2018 3:27pm
SX is more high level than MX. That's pretty obv.
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peltier626
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10/14/2018 3:29pm
The circus performed last night, and one million, i mean two million was rewarded with a last lap pass.
whyderp
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10/14/2018 3:50pm
There's nothing "wrong" with Supercross any more than there's anything "wrong" with indoor soccer.
You would need a pretty big stadium to make this argument valid.

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