What will Jeremy Martin's penalty be?

zookrider62! wrote:

So cutting the track as long as it is safe is okay?

kiwifan wrote:

did you even read the post from dkg before posting your response? you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality, good thing...

did you even read the post from dkg before posting your response? you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality, good thing you arent the referee as you clearly cannot see common sense

OW38B wrote:

[i]"you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality"[/i] You did see the part where JMart "cut" 12 to 15 seconds of the...

"you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality"


You did see the part where JMart "cut" 12 to 15 seconds of the track off that lap correct?

The only leg he has to stand on is that he waited 5 or so seconds to let other riders bye....

VRR7 wrote:

This same issue is relevant to all forms of motorsport. The current rules applied are consistent with the International ruling body of all forms of motorsport...

This same issue is relevant to all forms of motorsport. The current rules applied are consistent with the International ruling body of all forms of motorsport up to F1 and it is often the case more in road racing where a rider messes up take the run off road and gains a position and has to give the place back so he does not get an advantage IE Be in the same running position as JM did ! The argument they made a mistake missed braking marker is not relevant. No penalty is awarded chips fall where they fall. Its a mature level headed ruling and avoids over policing and less is more for the sake of the race and racing is the actual sport and winner ! Ride through and penalty and sit in the corner and and and traffic cops and more fines and just makes racing worse ! Not better.

The hot topic at the moment and most laws are for safety which strongly supports JM (The safe way in which he acted !) Is should Road Racer be allowed to continue racing after a crash ? Often times they damage the bike and then who knows if it is safe or not ( brakes clutch oil on the track etc - All potentially life threatening to many)? So a more NB topic should be - Should Osborne and Tomac have been black flagged or not ? The current ruling is no but it is under big scrutiny ! Like Grant said what if ZO 's bike locked up on a critical jump ??? Its dangerous ZO riding around a race track with big jumps on it with a bike with no water in it about to seize any moment is a bigger safety concern than what happened to JM - Priorities priorities ? Safety is a large factor for laws in motor sport .. how come are priorities so skewed ? JM acted safely and is the villain ZO did not and is the hero ? Inside out back to front ... Double backflip the finish line is hero move I understand but will actually get a penalty ( Guess why ? )

kiwifan wrote:

did you even read the post from dkg before posting your response? you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality, good thing...

did you even read the post from dkg before posting your response? you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality, good thing you arent the referee as you clearly cannot see common sense

OW38B wrote:

[i]"you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality"[/i] You did see the part where JMart "cut" 12 to 15 seconds of the...

"you guys need to move away from the 'cutting the track' mentality"


You did see the part where JMart "cut" 12 to 15 seconds of the track off that lap correct?

The only leg he has to stand on is that he waited 5 or so seconds to let other riders bye....

kiwifan wrote:

I saw the part where he re-entered at a safe point closest to that of exit as per the rule book

TDeath21 wrote:

Let's say that is the next safest place to enter. I don't believe it was, but that's what we will say. How do you explain the...

Let's say that is the next safest place to enter. I don't believe it was, but that's what we will say.

How do you explain the portion that says they can't gain an advantage and that you can gain an advantage without gaining a position? He canceled out his mistake by cutting the track. Had he let Osborne by and waited a few more seconds, this thread would have never been created.

TDeath21 wrote:

Let's say that is the next safest place to enter. I don't believe it was, but that's what we will say. How do you explain the...

Let's say that is the next safest place to enter. I don't believe it was, but that's what we will say.

How do you explain the portion that says they can't gain an advantage and that you can gain an advantage without gaining a position? He canceled out his mistake by cutting the track. Had he let Osborne by and waited a few more seconds, this thread would have never been created.

dkg wrote:

The difficulty with your position is that it seeks a level of absolute determination that is impossible. Basically, if I am reading correctly, you feel that...

The difficulty with your position is that it seeks a level of absolute determination that is impossible. Basically, if I am reading correctly, you feel that Martin should have allowed some amount of time to pass before re-entering that would equalize the effect of his going off course, re-entering at the exact location of exit and then having continued on with his race. This amount of time is to be determined by the rider under race conditions and determined as the amount of time from his theoretical position had he not crashed; waiting the exact amount of time it would have taken to get to the point of re-entry and then resume. For starters, it is speculation as to his the theoretical position was relative to Zach as this portion of the race didn't occur because of the events that caused the off track excursion to begin with. Secondly, it is also speculation as to how long to wait because nobody has been timing how long it would take to trasverse the missed portion of the track under those exact conditions.

Personally, I think the intent of the rule is to avoid situations where the rider exits and then re-enters gaining positions or obvious time advantages. This is a best efforts by the rider kind of thing and is evaluated by the race director. I don't feel it requires a level of precision from the rider that would take a team of physicists and statisticians from MIT to determine the most probable exact amount of time and relative position had the track exit not occurred. Most rational people can determine if the rider was intending to gain any significant advantage, certainly with enough precision for purposes of having an effect on relative finishing position in the race.

Fourth_Floor wrote:

He should have cut the track again after he crashed and got back ahead of Osborne haha.

VRR7 wrote:

This same issue is relevant to all forms of motorsport. The current rules applied are consistent with the International ruling body of all forms of motorsport...

This same issue is relevant to all forms of motorsport. The current rules applied are consistent with the International ruling body of all forms of motorsport up to F1 and it is often the case more in road racing where a rider messes up take the run off road and gains a position and has to give the place back so he does not get an advantage IE Be in the same running position as JM did ! The argument they made a mistake missed braking marker is not relevant. No penalty is awarded chips fall where they fall. Its a mature level headed ruling and avoids over policing and less is more for the sake of the race and racing is the actual sport and winner ! Ride through and penalty and sit in the corner and and and traffic cops and more fines and just makes racing worse ! Not better.

The hot topic at the moment and most laws are for safety which strongly supports JM (The safe way in which he acted !) Is should Road Racer be allowed to continue racing after a crash ? Often times they damage the bike and then who knows if it is safe or not ( brakes clutch oil on the track etc - All potentially life threatening to many)? So a more NB topic should be - Should Osborne and Tomac have been black flagged or not ? The current ruling is no but it is under big scrutiny ! Like Grant said what if ZO 's bike locked up on a critical jump ??? Its dangerous ZO riding around a race track with big jumps on it with a bike with no water in it about to seize any moment is a bigger safety concern than what happened to JM - Priorities priorities ? Safety is a large factor for laws in motor sport .. how come are priorities so skewed ? JM acted safely and is the villain ZO did not and is the hero ? Inside out back to front ... Double backflip the finish line is hero move I understand but will actually get a penalty ( Guess why ? )

mooch wrote:

After that VERY long explanation...I still agree with point quickly made by TDeath. As others have said, Jmart clearly would have been passed by Osborne after...

After that VERY long explanation...I still agree with point quickly made by TDeath.

As others have said, Jmart clearly would have been passed by Osborne after going off the track, makes sense that he should have dropped in behind Osborne when reentering.

Dirty Points wrote:

No. He should cut the whole track for the whole race, avoiding all obstacles, including the one that lead to his crash, and periodically pop back...

No. He should cut the whole track for the whole race, avoiding all obstacles, including the one that lead to his crash, and periodically pop back on behind whomever he was previously behind wherever he deemed as safe re-entry point.

Dirty Points wrote:

That ignores the simple reality that in other form of Motorsport, off-the-track is slower and thus, it's own penalty. In MX, of course a guy would...

That ignores the simple reality that in other form of Motorsport, off-the-track is slower and thus, it's own penalty.

In MX, of course a guy would have an easier time on the mule road alongside the track than an actual rutted up track full of mx obstacles.. I can run times with Dungey around a national track, if I get to ride the access road.

Dirty Points wrote:

That ignores the simple reality that in other form of Motorsport, off-the-track is slower and thus, it's own penalty. In MX, of course a guy would...

That ignores the simple reality that in other form of Motorsport, off-the-track is slower and thus, it's own penalty.

In MX, of course a guy would have an easier time on the mule road alongside the track than an actual rutted up track full of mx obstacles.. I can run times with Dungey around a national track, if I get to ride the access road.

blusmbl wrote:

Many of the road racing incident examples are missing chicanes, and the offender does end up gaining positions that have to be given back.

Flip109 wrote:

His track, he can do what he wants!

Flip109 wrote:

His track, he can do what he wants!

ledger wrote:

I think you may be right.