What will Jeremy Martin's penalty be?

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7/23/2017 4:08 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I would rather celebrate a Joel victory than bitch about a rider who finished 4th overall about his off track excursion...why ...more

So anything goes as long as you don't win?

Brilliant.

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7/23/2017 4:08 PM

This making a mistake with nothing gained excuse is ridiculous. If you cut 10 seconds off the track you should be given at least a 10 second penalty.

If a rider cannot re-enter in thee same spot safely, the rider should have to do a stop and go in the mechanics area at minimum. Examples: Martin in Millville, Anderson in Colorado, Dungey in Vegas, Savatgy in Jersey.... etc.

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7/23/2017 4:19 PM

If he went off the track on that next uphill, then I could see the argument about not making the top of the hill from a standstill.

But from where he was, there is no way that a 2 time National Champion on a factory Honda can't get to that next ledge to gain some momentum. It would just be a bit slower than the competition, that's all.

I'm a big fan of the kid, but from the moment he left the track it looks like his complete focus is on getting cutting over to the next section, then wait for Cianciarulo. He definitely gained an advantage over the alternative, which was going back onto the track and cresting the hill slower than if he hadn't bobbled.

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7/23/2017 4:21 PM

dkg wrote:

Penalty--> Phil is to be his best man at the upcoming wedding.

Hold on, he didn't kill anyone, did he?

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7/23/2017 5:32 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I would rather celebrate a Joel victory than bitch about a rider who finished 4th overall about his off track excursion...why ...more

First, it's a legitimate conversation. Second, if it's allowed to stand then it's a precedent that
it's OK to just cut the track to keep your place in the race. So why not have intelligent discussion
about it? Let's say he didn't go off the track, how many riders would have passed him before he
got going again? By the time he could have safely started up the hill and got some momentum, a
minimum of 3? When you have a bobble you shouldn't be allowed to just erase it by cutting the track.
TM

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7/23/2017 5:35 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I would rather celebrate a Joel victory than bitch about a rider who finished 4th overall about his off track excursion...why ...more

SPYGUY wrote:

So anything goes as long as you don't win?

Brilliant.

If he were on a KTM kiwifan would want blood.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/23/2017 5:46 PM

kiwifan wrote:

I would rather celebrate a Joel victory than bitch about a rider who finished 4th overall about his off track excursion...why ...more

SPYGUY wrote:

So anything goes as long as you don't win?

Brilliant.

BobPA wrote:

If he were on a KTM kiwifan would want blood.

tsk tsk tsk not true, I would of knocked him out ...nah just joking, really I dont give a flying f**k who it was, all I see its bitching over nothing (just like others do in this thread) ...that was my one and only point.

To answer SPYGUY ...He went off the track, he went to a safe entry point and rejoined the track after waiting for others to go through to where he was, he made no gains whatsoever. to say oh jolly gee duh, well 'so anything goes as long as you dont win' is one hell of a massive exaggeration.

Now IF he had of joined the track at that point that he did and didn't wait for the other riders to get back in the position where he was before he went off then fine, slander the guy to bits...I have no problem with that at all.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
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7/23/2017 5:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/23/2017 5:59 PM

^^^^^But he did gain a time advantage by cutting off a good chunck of the track, where there was a safe point of entry. Had he ridden the majority of the track that he cut out, he wouldnt have been even close to the guys in front of him. But, he was close because he avoided a portion of the track that the riders in front of him still navigated.

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much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
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Thanks in advance!





7/23/2017 6:39 PM

Since it is so fine and dandy he should make that a rest stop every lap and conserve energy for late in the day. silly

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7/23/2017 8:24 PM

You really think he and his brother haven't climbed that hill hundreds of times on every bike they've ever had? You don't grow up on a track like that and not climb the big gnarly hill in every way possible. Sorry guys, but off-road guys climb hills as steep as that from a standstill all the time. And I'm talking about regular shmoes on their own bikes. Not 50+ hp factory bikes. Obvious he wanted to minimize the time lost because he knew the track so well and knew it would set him back a bunch. But that's why the penalty is so deserved.

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7/23/2017 8:53 PM

SPYGUY wrote:

So anything goes as long as you don't win?

Brilliant.

BobPA wrote:

If he were on a KTM kiwifan would want blood.

kiwifan wrote:

tsk tsk tsk not true, I would of knocked him out ...nah just joking, really I dont give a flying f**k who it was, all I see ...more

Mistakes come with a consequence. He made a big mistake, cut the track, and as a result of cutting the track suffered zero consequences. So yes you are right he did not gain an advantage, but he also didn't lose any advantage with his costly mistake.

He should be penalized harshly for that track cut. How he thought it was a good idea to cut back in front of Zach was a complete joke. One of the biggest bone headed decisions I've seen.

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7/23/2017 9:03 PM

TXDirt wrote:

Mistakes come with a consequence. He made a big mistake, cut the track, and as a result of cutting the track suffered zero ...more

Excellent, we agree to disagree smile

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

7/23/2017 10:05 PM

Let's say hypothetically that a rider exits the track in a corner during a national and tweaks his knee a bit. He stays on the bike, ponders continuing and ultimately decides to re enter the race. Luckily, just across from the corner where he exited the track, there is another section that is half a lap further along, and here come the group of riders that he was battling with.

He waits and re-enters in the same position that he was in and continues the moto.

Ok with you guys?

My point is that while he was deciding whether of not to continue, 27 riders passed him where he went off.

Is it ok to cut a portion if the track as long as you don't gain positions?

I say, if you go off, you come back in at that point. This lopping off track sections is crap.

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7/24/2017 2:39 AM

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely impractical considering this is racing in a forwards direct and hence the rule is the next safest place. It would be very hard to argue that that was not the next safest place to re join the track and he did so safely and responsibly. Which is a large part of the requirement. Or the other way around it would be very easy to argue that anywhere else on the uphill would not be a safe place to re-enter the track. J Marts behavior under the circumstance was fair and safe. What is the reverse argument turn around enter the track where he left of go backwards on the race track and rerun at the hill ? Really ? Considering the options available the one chosen was pretty sensible. I have not read any other option that are more sensible and safe than the one he actually chose all other option have potential safety issues that would easily be pointed out to any panel of inquiry !

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7/24/2017 2:47 AM

Dont know who's was worst? Langston vs Alessi

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7/24/2017 4:26 AM

VRR7 wrote:

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely ...more

What he could and should have done is turn right once he went off track, and re-entered past the banner. Also he could have gone around the inflatable oil can, rejoined the track further up the hill and continued without cutting the track. At no time would he have had to ride backwards on the course.

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7/24/2017 5:10 AM

He 100% could have entered not far after where he went off...

But it's a moot point because if they looked the other way with Forkner nothing is doing here.

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Cheers, Crush
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7/24/2017 5:12 AM

About 3.50... seconds that is.

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7/24/2017 5:30 AM

VRR7 wrote:

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely ...more

Agree he "gained no advantage" but he 100% could have entered slightly up the hill where the break in the banners were, and the riders going up the hill are going slower than the guys coming down.

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Cheers, Crush
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7/24/2017 5:36 AM

Next week if Bagget is behind Tomac he should ride off the track each lap, cut out half the track but make sure when he comes back on the track he is still right behind Eli. Extreme example but he isn't gaining an advantage.

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7/24/2017 6:45 AM

KDXGarage wrote:

It will be the responsibility of the Race Director or his designee to determine
whether the rider gained an advantage upon ...more

It's not the same rule? (There was an AMA sanctioned race in New Jersey that I think utilizes the same rulebook)

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Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

7/24/2017 6:51 AM

VRR7 wrote:

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely ...more

Crush wrote:

Agree he "gained no advantage" but he 100% could have entered slightly up the hill where the break in the banners were, and ...more

He did gain an advantage by cutting the track. Had he not cut the track and instead reentered somewhere relatively close to where he went off the track he would have lost like 10-15 seconds or there abouts.

So by cutting the track he absolutely gained an unfair advantage.

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7/24/2017 9:00 AM

VRR7 wrote:

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely ...more

He did not enter at the next safest place. The next safest place was about 30 feet up the hill where the banners ended. But then he would have lost a position to Osborne and at least an extra ten seconds. He gained an advantage because he offset his mistake by cutting the track.

What if the downhill on his left side was a part of the track they had just went through? And the hill he was going up curved right at the top of the hill instead of left? Would it be okay for him to wait there for nearly an entire lap before his competitors came by and re-enter right where he was? The answer is no, and had that been the case, that's not what he would have done. He would have reset himself in the grass and climbed the hill at a slow speed. Instead, he knew the next section of the track was right next to him, so he cut the track to gain an advantage.

If what Martin did was legal, the following scenario is also legal. Rider A is battling Rider B for the moto win. Rider A knows Rider B has a great line in an uphill section and has been faster there all race. Rider B is right on Rider A as they enter that uphill on the final lap. Rider A "makes a mistake" at the bottom of the hill and cuts straight across. Rider B continues through the section and as he comes back down the hill, Rider A is waiting there and re-enters in front of Rider B. Rider A holds Rider B off for the remainder of the lap and takes the moto win. That's all legal now right? That's the precedent this sets.

Here's another thing to think about. What if the riders Martin was battling with got together at the top of the hill and one of them crashed. Martin, without making his mistake, very well could have been right there and been caught up in that. Now, does he wait for that downed rider? Or does he just take off when the other two go by?

Bottom line is this. Martin made a mistake that should have cost him a position and at least ten seconds. Instead, he cut the track, which conveniently was right where his competitors were about to be, and gained an advantage worth ten seconds and one position. The penalty for this has to be something. Positions or additional seconds added to his race time is what it should be.

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7/24/2017 9:26 AM

VRR7 wrote:

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely ...more

TDeath21 wrote:

He did not enter at the next safest place. The next safest place was about 30 feet up the hill where the banners ended. But ...more

Well said and 100% true.

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7/24/2017 9:34 AM

JMart earned a penalty, whether he receives one or not. I'll venture a guess that we'll hear from the AMA later this week or even during the Washougal broadcast. It seems to take them a while to figure things out, which is ridiculous.

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7/24/2017 9:47 AM

A little surprised DC hasn't chimed in yet.

If the AMA doesn't do anything about Martin than how would they possibly justify doing anything about anyone else that possibly does something similar in the future?

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7/24/2017 9:53 AM

VRR7 wrote:

The rule is join the race at the next safest opportunity. To join the track where you left it would often be completely ...more

TDeath21 wrote:

He did not enter at the next safest place. The next safest place was about 30 feet up the hill where the banners ended. But ...more

You mean the next ledge that had people on it? If he gets a run up the hill and the person goes the same direction as he does then what. Assuming he knew there was a 15ft section of no banners.

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7/24/2017 9:56 AM

markit wrote:

If that isn't cutting the course, I don't know what is.

I have seen "course cutting" at an AMA race before............and it looked just like that.

The "not gain an advantage" is too ambiguous and needs to be thrown out. You should reenter at or before where you left the track.

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"Welcome to Southern California......the mecca of motocross racing." ~ Jason Wiegant

7/24/2017 10:09 AM

You guys act like the AMA has always followed precedents and gone by the "rule" book. This is classic AMA, I wouldn't expect any different.

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7/24/2017 10:15 AM

markit wrote:

If that isn't cutting the course, I don't know what is.

OW38B wrote:

I have seen "course cutting" at an AMA race before............and it looked just like that.

The "not gain an advantage" is ...more

Yep, who cares if you lose a minute or more you should go back to where you went off. You made a mistake, unfortunately your lap time suffers. Same rule should apply in SX, go back to where you went off. If that spot is unsafe than go further back until it is.

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