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DC
Racer X
The more egregious decision was him cutting back in front of Zach.
I'd go with 3 positions. That seems fair.
It would not be fair to issue a penalty based on the results of the day, or how he crashed a few turns later, or how it may effect the championship. The rules should be as fairly administered as possible.
Cut track get docked three positions minimum.
In ball sports, it doesn't matter if your foul on Michael Jordan in game 3 of the season negatively effects his eventual rise to a championship. In and of the moment, it is penalized.
The Shop
Who is to say.....that he wouldn't of crashed or had a mechanical if he had to complete that section? Did he get a few extra moments to catch his breath and calm himself by waiting for the other riders to come around before he reentered? Is that an advantage.
All kinds of scenario "could" of happened, whether or not it would of changed the outcome of finishing position is just a guess.
And... too muddy and he may not have made it... that's a guess, albeit an educated one... too bad, he should of tried.
EDIT: See TXDirt said it first. Oops
Thanks DC.
Sounds like the rules were followed, and you are 100% correct.. If you aren't standing at the bottom of Mt Martin, there's no way to tell how steep the climb, and wet the conditions were.
Jeremy waited for all the riders that were ahead of him, to stay ahead of him, then re-entered the race at the safest spot on the track.
As for the call that was made, meh, it's judgement I guess, and like you said, "the debate continues." Many would be on board with that call if this happened on the steep part of the hill, in which case there is a slim chance in hell even a hill-climb bike could get going again, but this was on a flat terrace. From the comfort of my couch, I maintain that he could have easily - and safely - reentered in the exact spot he went off track. He had already knocked the banner down to make reentry easy. He didn't try to stop, turn around, or even turn his head to look at where he could reenter. Instead, he immediately focused his attention on reentering in the race position he was in. He completely avoided what should have been a self-inflicted time/position penalty for squidding out and shooting off the track.
Edit: And the worst part of all this was his mechanic shaking his head when JMart dumped his bike in the corner. Sure, you can be disappointed, but it's a bad look to take a figurative dump on your rider when he is literally down.
https://youtu.be/wo2bhzazGow
He cut the track and made an even more idiotic decision to enter track ahead of Zach.
I thought Joey's track cut in SX was far less egregious then what Martin did. So Joey gets docked but not Martin. Makes no sense.
Or even if interpretable to whatever degree, why would penalties be anything other than canonical? You take your mandated penalty, like every other sport in the world, and move on.
Whether the hill is really difficult or not doesn't change the concept of it as an obstacle on the course. If it is tougher to restart midway, a rider probably should be keeping DAMN close track to his line choice and aggressiveness on that portion of the course.
And if they can't restart from there -- need to find a less difficult place: That is not grounds for skipping the section (with minimal consequence); It is further grounds for MAKING them perform the section, since the other competitors did.
Pit Row
Can't believe intent was even mentioned in an officiating discussion
DC
Racer X
As fans we all have opinions on what should or should not have happened in all three cases, but only the referee gets to make the call.
DC
Racer X
It doesn't matter in every other sport in existence if you "intend" to violate the rules before hand. It just is what it is: if you went "out of bounds", if you foul a dude, if you commit an "error", if you fuck up in any way, if you leave the "playing surface", you don't get any competitive advantage or extra-normal opportunity based on that -- you get a violation that negatively effects your competitiveness.
But here's an example where it also comes into question: In baseball, how do you decide whether to throw a pitcher out after he hits a batter? How does the umpire decide the difference between a beanball and an errant pitch? In basketball, how do they determine flagrant fouls from normal fouls? Doesn't intent come into play for the referee or umpire at some point?
And in many of those other sports, a whistle blows, or a play ends, or the pitch is thrown, and everyone lines up again, so a penalty can be assessed immediately. In motocross, we play on -- and we ask the rider to get back on track at the nearest safe spot. The referee determined that Jeremy Martin did that, without gaining an advantage.
DC
MX Sports
We are one of few sports in the world that track all competitive metrics (video and transponder) through every segment, and you seem to be saying that coming up with equitable punishments for leaving the playing field is unreasonable.
Here, I'm not even an official, and rvrn I can come up with some sort of penalty within seconds of racking my tiny brain: "3 second lap penalty for every one sec spent out of bounds". I'm sure you guys can do better.
And, It may not be enforced universally, but at least it IS A RULE.
It's an easy solution, if you go off the track and are unable to re-enter close to the same spot where you exited then the rider must do a stop and go in the mechanics area. If the rider doesn't do a "stop and go" then they are subjected to a more serious punishment.
Mistakes shouldn't be mulligans!
Later,
P.S. I would implement this at the beginning of next season, thus giving riders, teams and officials time to learn exactly what is expected.
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