Posts: 18573
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Location: Sydney, AUS
Just rewatching the races now...
Pretty evident that the Euros, particularly Coldenhoff, never ever buried the bike in the deep stuff... The fastest riders were carrying speed through some more flowing arcing lines...
Further down you went the more you saw the riders bouncing out of and off the berms.
Cheers, Crush
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Joined: 10/2/2008
Location: GBR
Towards the end of the 3rd moto the TV director showed Coldenhoff attacking the nasty downhill rutted off-camber. Perfect blend of line selection, balance and throttle control.
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Joined: 4/26/2009
Location: Sydney, AUS
They also must have trucked in a shit load of sand, it's not usually that deep? Seems like the long corners there with that dirt can get quite one lined...
And the whole roller before the leap? Awful. They last did a hairpin down there in 2013 I think, just one lined as hell.
Cheers, Crush
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Joined: 10/5/2017
Location: Frankfort, IN USA
That the euros are way smoother than we are. In the first moto watching herlings and paulin rail a corner then tomac coming around unsteady af.
2009 RMZ 250 (sold)
2004 LTZ 400
#nukethequads
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Joined: 1/5/2014
Location: AS, USA
All 3 US riders got smoked off the starts. The riding style of the Euro riders was an amazing thing to witness in person. So smooth and fluid. Coldenoff and Paulin were probably the two best examples, not reving or clutching the bikes just smooth power delivery in such deep sand was amazing. Ferrandis and Hunter Lawrence were damn impressive too for the 250 class, beating Barcia and AP in race 2 by a good bit.
ET had his moments, but when we got down in race 1 and 3, he was in full send mode. Barcia was his typical self, wide open, off the rev limiter, clutching the shit out of the bike, burying the bike deep. AP just looked like he had a boat anchor tied to him on Sunday. He also had to stop to get rid of his first pair of 100% goggles, and then tossed his second pair shortly after.
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Location: BEL
Edited Date/Time:
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Location: Gilbert, AZ USA
What stood out? How different the surface was from a normal Red Bud track... And how good the MXGP guys get off the line. Coldenhoff's lines, we were by the bowl turn and he was the first one to move the line out and it was so much smoother.
'75-'83 through the minicycle boom.
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I was fast... But being fast is relative to who else is on the track with you.
ZachO fan! ZO16
TG243 fan!
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Location: FIN
Crush wrote:
They also must have trucked in a shit load of sand, it's not usually that deep? Seems like the long corners there with that dirt can get quite one lined...
And the whole roller before the leap? Awful. They last did a hairpin down there in 2013 I think, just one lined as hell.
At first, i also thought the roller was stupid. But then i thought it was cool that only a few riders were able to huck the leap! We're so used to everyone jumping things on the modern 450s so that was actually something i liked to see.
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Joined: 7/13/2016
Location: Saint Marys, PA USA
Herlings riding style. Hanging off the bike, body english, basically throwing a 450 around like a 125. I think we're seeing the next evolution of riding technique since the Bubba scrub. I don't think I've ever visibly seen anyone make a 450 race bike their bitch quite like that.
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Joined: 4/26/2009
Location: Sydney, AUS
Crush wrote:
They also must have trucked in a shit load of sand, it's not usually that deep? Seems like the long corners there with that dirt can get quite one lined...
And the whole roller before the leap? Awful. They last did a hairpin down there in 2013 I think, just one lined as hell.
Motofinne wrote:
At first, i also thought the roller was stupid. But then i thought it was cool that only a few riders were able to huck the leap! We're so used to everyone jumping things on the modern 450s so that was actually something i liked to see.
Yeah see i'm also normally an advocate for safer/slower shit etc and things that seperate the riders... BUT...
Red Budd has a dirty secret... it's sometimes not great for passing... And it's gotten worse the deeper it's been made, the corners are wide without offering a lot of reason to go all the way wide around the outside.
That section usually lets the riders generate a lot of speed, catch a breath etc. The hairpin, inside roller and roller up the face just meant it was follow the leader regardless of which way you went.
Cheers, Crush
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Location: FIN
Fourth_Floor wrote:
Herlings riding style. Hanging off the bike, body english, basically throwing a 450 around like a 125. I think we're seeing the next evolution of riding technique since the Bubba scrub. I don't think I've ever visibly seen anyone make a 450 race bike their bitch quite like that.
Thats funny because i think Emig said exactly that mid moto when they followed Herlings through a section. You could really hear Emigs excitement about it.
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Location: NJ, USA
Tixier’s (sorry if I mispelled) podium interview.
You could easily see how much it meant to him to be a part of the team and what a great ending to what must have been a challenging season.
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Fourth_Floor wrote:
Herlings riding style. Hanging off the bike, body english, basically throwing a 450 around like a 125. I think we're seeing the next evolution of riding technique since the Bubba scrub. I don't think I've ever visibly seen anyone make a 450 race bike their bitch quite like that.
Motofinne wrote:
Thats funny because i think Emig said exactly that mid moto when they followed Herlings through a section. You could really hear Emigs excitement about it.
Yeah, if he disrespected anyone or anything this weekend, it was that 450.
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Location: Fenton, MI USA
Crush wrote:
They also must have trucked in a shit load of sand, it's not usually that deep? Seems like the long corners there with that dirt can get quite one lined...
And the whole roller before the leap? Awful. They last did a hairpin down there in 2013 I think, just one lined as hell.
Motofinne wrote:
At first, i also thought the roller was stupid. But then i thought it was cool that only a few riders were able to huck the leap! We're so used to everyone jumping things on the modern 450s so that was actually something i liked to see.
Crush wrote:
Yeah see i'm also normally an advocate for safer/slower shit etc and things that seperate the riders... BUT...
Red Budd has a dirty secret... it's sometimes not great for passing... And it's gotten worse the deeper it's been made, the corners are wide without offering a lot of reason to go all the way wide around the outside.
That section usually lets the riders generate a lot of speed, catch a breath etc. The hairpin, inside roller and roller up the face just meant it was follow the leader regardless of which way you went.
The track had no real technical sections. Just kind of fast and flowing all the way around. I wish they had left the loop in on the south end. And yeah the corner before the leap stunk. Our boys couldn't buy a start to save their lives and wern't up to racing forward in those conditions.
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Location: GBR
What stood out for me was the 250 riders in race 2 - Prado, Lawrence & Watson.
Like Carmicheal said that track was particularly tough for 250s to go fast on but look at their lap times compared to Coldenhoff.
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA USA
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Location: Fuquay Varina, NC USA
How much better the Europeans are at the nasty conditions with their flow/style & bike setup! Holy shit, when they went back & forth from coldenhoff to our guys in the nasty, soft, deep sections, it looked like a full factory bike vs bone stock bike suspension wise. I think our guys need to take some lessons on bike/suspension set up from those boys. They were gliding around like there was no bumps or ruts & looking like they were riding a smooth race track as compared to ours guys' that were slamming & bouncing off everything in sight & appeared to have no idea how to set up suspension on their bikes. Wow is all I can say. Completely blown away by the difference in the handling of their machines as well as the euros smooth flow & approach. Impressive for sure. We have a lot to learn outdoors from that race!
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Joined: 4/26/2009
Location: Sydney, AUS
Edge-Of-Adhesion wrote:
What stood out for me was the 250 riders in race 2 - Prado, Lawrence & Watson.
Like Carmicheal said that track was particularly tough for 250s to go fast on but look at their lap times compared to Coldenhoff.
You think about it though, look at Coldenhoff, not burying the bike... The fast 250 guys couldn’t afford too... they were turning early off little edges and staying in the light stuff. They weren’t ever trying to use the motor to pull them out.
Not sure I’ve seen Red Bud with a slick base before either so it made it even more important to carry speed.
Would have been nice to watch the US riders with a start tho two of them are reknowned as bad starters.... add a DNF and a crash and you’re getting shit gates, perhaps adrenaline might have helped them along.
Cheers, Crush
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Joined: 2/1/2016
Location: Saginaw, MI USA
motomike137 wrote:
The track had no real technical sections. Just kind of fast and flowing all the way around. I wish they had left the loop in on the south end. And yeah the corner before the leap stunk. Our boys couldn't buy a start to save their lives and wern't up to racing forward in those conditions.
Does anyone know why that section was removed? That off camber turn was always entertaining. I don't see anything about it that could be considered an American advantage. Just seems puzzling to me that it was taken out.
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Location: SD, CA USA
Fourth_Floor wrote:
Herlings riding style. Hanging off the bike, body english, basically throwing a 450 around like a 125. I think we're seeing the next evolution of riding technique since the Bubba scrub. I don't think I've ever visibly seen anyone make a 450 race bike their bitch quite like that.
Motofinne wrote:
Thats funny because i think Emig said exactly that mid moto when they followed Herlings through a section. You could really hear Emigs excitement about it.
Yup, I was thinking if I rode a 450 like that I’d be dead/loopout larry.
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Joined: 3/8/2009
Location: Bristol, GBR
Edited Date/Time:
The track was lengthened to accommodate pit lane (which is double the length of the AMA pitlane) and the FIM has a weird approx. length thing.....they try to keep it at a certain length/time. Maybe with the lengthening of one part they had to lose the other?
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Joined: 11/25/2008
Location: Thru-out, CA USA
More of the Euros, including those that race over here, knew how to get traction in REALLY bad/wet/tricky situations. Our guys weren't as prepared for the weather or the soil conditions.
#NEEDMOREMX
I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.
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Location: San Diego, CA USA
Jorge Prado. I know he's the MX2 Champion, but he put in a huge performance, and he's like 17. Also not to take anything away from his performance, but seriously whatever ktm is doing with that 250 is impressive.
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Location: Saginaw, MI USA
"What stood out to you?"
1. Prado
2. Windham in the B Main
3. Plessinger (in a negative way)
4. The quantity of foreign fans who made the trip.
5. I will never ever understand how any of them can go so fast in the mud.
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Joined: 6/12/2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA USA
I would have liked to see Redbud setup like Redbud without the sand brought in and some dry weather on top of that. I think that the GP guys would have really enjoyed riding Redbud in it's natural state.
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Location: GBR
motomike137 wrote:
The track had no real technical sections. Just kind of fast and flowing all the way around. I wish they had left the loop in on the south end. And yeah the corner before the leap stunk. Our boys couldn't buy a start to save their lives and wern't up to racing forward in those conditions.
I feel like the track has been getting worse and worse with the changes over the past couple years and heard the same from others at the track over the weekend.
The obvious answer to who impressed most is Coldenhoff, but I was really impressed with Prado and Lawrence’s speed as well. Was great to see them in person for the first time.
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Location: Ontario, CAN
The thing that stood out to me was how awesome Coldenhoff rode and how he could be on a privateer team next year.
Caroili’s qualifying race stood out, as did Prado, Lawrence and Watson.
It also stood out that Tomac was no match for Searle on parts of the weekend.
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Location: Ogden, UT USA
what stood out to me is the USA team didn't show up. at all. that was a pretty poor display, we got beat by people i've never even heard of.
the Hoff, Prado, and Herlings were in another league, hell, so were half of the guys there.
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