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Also, going down in the first turn is not bad luck. It's a result of getting a bad start. The reason why bad starts are a problem isn't just because you have to work harder to get to the front, you also get stuck in the pack with people making erratic moves and it can cause you to crash.
The racers control how good of a start they get. If you're in the middle of the pack and you go down off the start, it's your fault because you should've gotten a better start.
Why can't you understand this? It's not luck, it's poor execution. The Americans didn't start 2-3 in the final moto by LUCK.
And in the final moto, Dungey got the jump on Cairoli and then immediately pinched him off out of the gate, causing Cairoli to shut the throttle. The result was a terrible start for Cairoli, and it was Cairoli's fault, not luck.
Do you understand?
Seven years in a row is not luck, and luck does not play an important role in it. Seven years in a row is about being more prepared and executing better than your competition. Period.
Like I pointed out in the post I quoted here, we sent TWO 250F racers in 2009 and Ivan Tedesco and still won. How can that be?
That's not luck.
Racing is a dynamic thing. Cairoli got a bad start and went down (his fault because he should've gotten a better start), and then he was pushing too hard trying to come through the pack on a very slick track and crashed again, breaking the bolts on his bar mounts. Both of these things would've been avoided had he gotten a better start, and it's completely his fault. It's not luck.
If you want to say it's luck, then his championships are luck, too, because he's lucky he didn't get hurt. But he's not lucky. He's good.
Like I pointed out, in 2009 we had Villopoto hurt, Stewart out, Alessi hurt (he was leading the 450 title when he got hurt), Timmy Ferry hurt... So we sent the 250 champ (Dungey) to race a 450, and put the next-best American on the 250 (Weimer), and sent Ivan Tedesco (third in the AMA points) because he was a veteran of the race to go with the two rookies.
And USA won.
So, what if? What if? What if? What if we'd have sent Alessi instead of Villopoto? Alessi would've gotten the holeshot in that final moto and probably finished second to Dungey. That's my prediction.
It's nonsense. Seven years in a row is not luck, and you can't make a case that it is. It's preparation and execution. Period. The other teams need to step it up.
There is no such thing as luck.
The only role luck might play in Team USA winning seven times in a row is the other teams might think they're losing because of luck and then not work on what they need to work on in order to beat the USA, because they just hope their "luck" will change.
It's a problem they create.
The Shop
But yes, i see what you are saying, but i dont agree.
The simple fact is that all 3 of the american team haul ass every year no matter where they are racing without fail.
Cairoli crashing in the first turn in France was absolutely his own fault, I agree. In the last moto at Franciacorta in 2009 another rider cut right across and into the side of Cairoli half way down the start straight. He literally rode into the side of him. Cairoli had absolutely no way of avoiding that, neither would Dungey or Tedesco if they had been on the receiving end of it. Likewise the Paulin incident three corners later or indeed Chad Reed who was taken out by Billy Mackenzie on the first corner, again another incident completely out of his control.
Both previous race winners along with the runner up in Moto1 and AMA 450 champion out of the running within 30 seconds of the final moto, along with the chances of the only two teams likely to pose a threat to the Americans. THATS what HELPED you to win with TWO 250F racers in 2009.
Some crashes or incidents can be avoided and blamed on poor execution/rider error/poor preparation etc. Others can't. The very few teams at the MXdN who have any chance at all of beating the US require not only their strongest line up of riders, which is usually not possible, but everything has go smoothly with no unfortunate hiccups and certainly no DNF's.
Anyway, you don't seem to appreciate my point of view while I don't agree with your logic or unconnected reasoning that you keep bringing up either. Im not prepared to keep going backwards and forwards making it into a bigger deal than it should be, so I'll just leave it at that.
He could've been out front. Then it wouldn't have happened. The longer you're in the pack alongside people who aren't that good, the longer you're in danger.
Most of the time, Cairoli can afford to have so-so starts and still win, or finish up front, in the GPs. He can't do that when the AMA guys show up, and when guys like Roczen and Herlings are in his class.
In the USA, it's much harder to come through from a bad start to win, so the guys are better at starting. It's that simple.
The very few teams at the MXdN who have any chance at all of beating the US require not only their strongest line up of riders, which is usually not possible, but everything has go smoothly with no unfortunate hiccups and certainly no DNF's.
But the point I made in talking about 2009, or 2010, or 2006, or 2005, is that in all of those years, the USA won without having their best riders. You say other teams need their best guys. But the USA doesn't. That should tell you something.
Actually I'd suggest Supercross was the reason they're consistently good starters.
You say other teams need their best guys. But the USA doesn't. That should tell you something.
You're missing my point again.
Italy, Belgium, Holland, Great Britain and France for example ONLY HAVE two or three riders (if that!) capable of running anywhere near the front of a Motocross des Nations race. America is lucky enough, due to the number of participating Motocross riders and both an incredibly strong Amateur & National programmes to have a wealth of fast riders and two or three exceptionally gifted riders. When one of the top three guys are injured you're able to replace them with riders of similar calibre, the other Nations, bar maybe France dont have that wealth to call on. To have any sort of legitimate chance the European teams HAVE to have their best three riders on the gate, because their 3rd or fourth choices are often not even GP riders!
Ontop of relying on having their best riders at the very least, they cant afford bad luck or DNF's which happened to riders on the very teams capable of challenging the US in both 2006 (Strijbos), 2008 (Boissierre), 2009 (Cairoli, Paulin & Reed), 2010 (Musquin), 2011 (Pourcel).
Before Sunday France were the only other team people were suggesting could have a chance, every other team was written off weeks ago.
Obviously, it's not luck.
Thanks for playing.
I realise these things are part of racing, and that ultimately the US deserve to win. But these are contributing factors which have paved the way for many of these victories, its just you, and most Americans choose to gloss of it.
You're hilarious.
God must just love US Motocross because he makes all these things happen out of pure luck so that the USA can win EVERY YEAR.
pave the way
To make progress or development easier.
It's not.
Pit Row
The act of joining the involvement of a pointless argument, that never ends. Being pulled into a conversation or discussion that has no real ending or right answer.
IE: You got pulled into the khole and looked like such a douche!
I'm not even going to bother replying to your last idiotic replies to my posts. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. But one thing I will say, when you said "Wait til' next year" and the like, I wasn't referring to this thread exactly. I'm also well aware that Canard crashed himself out of contention, but with Villopoto and Dungey, it wasn't likely he would have been on the team anyways.
Quit with the "If Pourcel's tire wouldn't have had problems, France would have won" type attitude. The bottom line is, they didn't, and now some of the Euros are upset about it. Everyone of those crashes you described in 2009 could have been avoided, Chad Reed could have been farther up, could have gotten a better start, same thing for Paulin, and for Cairoli, if he would have been better off the start, he would have not been taken out. Mechanical failures are unavoidable (for the most part) but not getting a good enough start, then being taken out, that IS avoidable.
If Pirelli fitted Pourcel's tires maybe they should have looked at it, and tested it before he went out on to the track, just to make sure it was functioning properly. It's like the brave men and women from all the countries fighting in Afghanistan and previously Iraq... If someone else put your weapon together, wouldn't you check to make sure it was done properly before going out on a patrol? MXdN is one of the biggest races of the year, and with your nation leading going into the final race, you'd think they would check their equipment a little better before starting. So yes, this was, in all ways avoidable.
Cairoli's crash at the start this year was avoidable, and so was his crash that broke his handlebars.
Desalle's crash before the event started was avoidable
Frossard's crash before the event started was avoidable
Pourcel didn't HAVE to pull off the track for goggles, like I said, Roczen, Dungey, and Reed ALL rode just fine after ditching their goggles.
France made their own fate by Pourcel pulling off the track and losing points, and not checking his tire to be sure it was functioning properly.
I'm not sure you read my whole post (you probably did.. settle down, settle down) but in NO WAY would I say that it's been lucky that team USA have won so much I said in my post you don't have good luck in motocross but you can definately have bad..
I also said that you would still probably win with Alessi or Weimer
As many times as you can crash on a motocross track for as many reasons I kinda do think luck can play a tiny part.. like maybe Cairoli crashed in the first turn because a rock rolled out from somebody else running over it and if he hit it a millisecond before or after he wouldn't have crashed.. but like I said no good luck only bad I've got a photo of a start where a rock or clump of dirt is extremely close to Stewart's front wheel and I don't think, I could be wrong and probably am, but I don't think he missed it on purpose, had he hit it he goes down that's kinda lucky to me..... TO ME haha........ wait I just totally contradicted myself ........ shit!!
Post a reply to: What sets Team USA apart? Luck? Not even close.