What sells more bikes worldwide for Honda - a Dakar win or a SX title?

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1/15/2021 3:51 PM

Lots of budget spent on both disciplines.

What has the better payback/ROI?

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1/15/2021 3:55 PM

You said, "Worldwide," so I'm going to go out on a limb and say Dakar. The US is big and very important, plus a Supercross title is impactful here and in Europe. But Dakar is known in Europe, Africa, South America, India, and most Asian countries. They moved this race to South America for fear it would be a target for terrorism in the African desert. You don't hear about Joe Terrorist threatening A1. (H1, this year.)

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Braaapin' aint easy.

1/15/2021 4:33 PM

Good question, but I'm not sure Honda can answer that (with reliable analytics).
The metric to look at is TV viewership. In the past, global TV viewership of Dakar Rally was massive- much bigger than SX (which has "spotty" international broadcast).
You also have to consider total media impressions- including social.
If there were 3 big rallys a year, in major global markets (Americas, India, Asia), the marketing power would be even bigger.

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1/15/2021 6:01 PM

Watching the event and the massive Honda infrastructure needed to support Dakar is what got me thinking.

From a worldwide perspective I bet Dakar is more impactful for Honda, just my two cents with zero data behind it.

So, now I wonder does Ricky Brabec make a salary commensurate to Ken Roczen?

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1/15/2021 6:05 PM

Baja 1000 😉

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Vital Mx is not safe...

1/15/2021 6:21 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/15/2021 6:21 PM

Moto GP. #1 importance and leverage to overall sales by far
Rally/Dakar. #2
SX #3

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1/15/2021 6:54 PM

Judging by the marketing and R&D also put in to Dakar by KTM/Red Bull I gotta think Dakar is hugely impactful on sales worldwide.

If I’m not mistaken it’s viewed in more countries worldwide than any other single Motorsport event.

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1/15/2021 7:15 PM

Agree. Biggest single event period. They said that during the promo’s. Series it’s Moto GP then Rally series

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1/15/2021 7:16 PM

Sx

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1/15/2021 7:27 PM

I think the kicker here is ‘worldwide’. You put North America in there and I think it’s SX, but I do not believe SX has near the reach worldwide as Dakar.

Kevin Benavides has probably been on every news station in South America today. Most the people who see that will never hear of Ken Roczen or Chase Sexton in their life.

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1/15/2021 7:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/15/2021 7:35 PM

Worldwide, Dakar

Hands down, no question in my mind.
It's an ultimate endurance test. That is understandable street, dirt, race, cruise and even car and lawn mower.


Dakar victory can be used across many applications

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Make sure you downvote!

1/15/2021 7:34 PM

Dakar would help sell the adventure range of bikes that both KTM and Honda sell. I think Dakar provides the companies with more exposure than supercross.

More average people around the world know of dakar than supercross.

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1/15/2021 7:43 PM

Falcon wrote:

You said, "Worldwide," so I'm going to go out on a limb and say Dakar. The US is big and very important, plus a Supercross ...more

There is some faulty reasoning in here. The terror threats were not because the rally is a 'big deal' but because any travel in these zones, especially travel done by western foreigners is very dicey. If you had westerners doing lawn mower racing in Aleppo, Syria or many places the old route went, it would get shot up/ raided. Now, by your definition, lawn mower racing is very important.

The whole region is geopolitically unstable and this is why they moved not because some terrorist hates Dakar because it is too popular.

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1/16/2021 1:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2021 1:36 AM

I'd say Dakar has the better ROI worldwide. You don't sell Africa Twins or CBRs with a SX or MX title.

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1/16/2021 1:53 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2021 2:00 AM

Falcon wrote:

You said, "Worldwide," so I'm going to go out on a limb and say Dakar. The US is big and very important, plus a Supercross ...more

The way you put that about terrorism is incorrect. People from certain countries in Africa like to kidnap Europeans for the ransom...they will target anyone. Should the Dakar route through their area then they'll probably attempt a kidnapping. Terrosim is alive and well in the North East regions. The danger is always present. Its a case of wrong place wrong time...be it the Dakar or volunteer doctors, missionaries etc.

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Non Gratum Anus Rodentum

1/16/2021 2:37 AM

Isn’t the story they all make their money on scooters and utility bikes, four wheelers etc?

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Cheers, Crush
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1/16/2021 2:58 AM

I’m sure Honda sells more CRF450’s than African Twins, however the media coverage and reach of Dakar is far greater.

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1/16/2021 4:22 AM

It would be almost impossible to guess since we have nothing to compare it to. No one is old enough to remember the last time Honda won a Supercross title. #curseofthebambino

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1/16/2021 4:31 AM

quadzrulebro wrote:

It would be almost impossible to guess since we have nothing to compare it to. No one is old enough to remember the last time ...more

😂🤣

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1/16/2021 4:44 AM

CPR wrote:

I’m sure Honda sells more CRF450’s than African Twins, however the media coverage and reach of Dakar is far greater.

You Sir are correct.

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Non Gratum Anus Rodentum

1/16/2021 9:05 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that based on Statista data, more on-road motorcycles were sold globally that off-road motorcycles. This is of course an extrapolation of US data globally and only a guess.

"In 2019, approximately 300,800 units of on-highway motorcycles and more than 100,000 units of off-highway motorcycles were sold to customers in the United States" -Statista

Keep in mind that Honda sales were down in 2020 for the first time in 5 years.

That being said, Dakar or MOTOGP most likely have a larger impact on sales than MX/ SX in the US and Globally.

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1/16/2021 9:13 AM

Off road is a small percentage of the total units sold domestically.

"Off road" is enduro bikes and everything "dirt"

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Make sure you downvote!

1/16/2021 9:14 AM

The Dakar rally does more to raise the brand’s overall profile and sales, but SX does more dirtbikes, especially when you consider the US is such a huge market for dirtbikes.

Think of it this way: Formula 1 is the biggest series for marketing cars , but you can’t buy Formula 1 cars. The series advertises a brands capabilities and that in turn drives sales to the consumer level cars. The Dakar rally does the same thing for the motorcycle division by showcasing the brands capabilities to consumer with no racing interest who are in the market for scooters, street bikes, road-going adv bikes, all the way down to generators and pressure washers.

SX, on the other hand, is mostly followed by people who either own or have an interest in bikes that are substantially similar to the bikes they can buy from dealerships. Success in SX is great marketing for the offroad specific product lines but doesn’t have the same ripple effect throughout the product line.

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1/16/2021 11:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2021 11:07 AM

I don’t know about the rest of the world but when I traveled to Guadalajara, MX, I went on a week long motorcycle excursion aboard a brand new KTM which they provided and every Mexican knew about Tomac, Roczen, and the rest of the top SX/MX racers. It was weird that people in mainland Mexico actually didn’t know anything about Baja or enduro. I imagine they didn’t care about Dakar either.

I think it really has to do with the demographic. For example, in SoCal, everyone is rooting for Ricky Brabec including a lot of guys from Baja. But the guys I’m friends with on mainland Mexico have no clue who he is.

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Vital Mx is not safe...

1/16/2021 11:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2021 11:13 AM

CPR wrote:

I’m sure Honda sells more CRF450’s than African Twins, however the media coverage and reach of Dakar is far greater.

That is probably true, at least I think so too. But my Honda dealership (in a small city in France countryside) told me Africa Twin was their best seller (road, and off-road) and by far (more than 30 units if I am not mistaken)

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1/16/2021 11:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/16/2021 11:27 AM

Crush wrote:

Isn’t the story they all make their money on scooters and utility bikes, four wheelers etc?

Have to agree.

I doubt Dakar or sx really move the needle all that much on total sales, especially with the increasing percentage of sales in developing countries.

The guy in Calcutta or Jakarta buying cheap transportation for his family has probably never heard of Brabic or rockzen

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1/16/2021 11:37 AM

I think both are a part of an overall brand awareness marketing strategy, which contribute to sales across all Honda lines.

So it’s probably difficult to qualify exactly how much each contributes to a number of sold units.

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1/16/2021 12:02 PM

Honda is going to sell an awful lot of 300 Rally this year .

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1/16/2021 1:09 PM

quadzrulebro wrote:

It would be almost impossible to guess since we have nothing to compare it to. No one is old enough to remember the last time ...more

I am

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Even from a distance you can tell it a 2005 rm250 the characteristic sound echo thru the forest an speeds thru the tundra da bike can simply be describes as 2-stroke madness low wait combine with brutal power an unsurpased spontineity as rite an proper for a Spode

1/17/2021 8:06 AM

quadzrulebro wrote:

It would be almost impossible to guess since we have nothing to compare it to. No one is old enough to remember the last time ...more

Not exactly ancient history...

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