What makes a legend

motomike137
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motomike137 2/14/2020 6:44am
2/14/2020 6:44am
Sometimes an individual may not reach legend status but did have some legendary traits or performed some legendary feats? I see Eli landing in that category at the moment, legendary speed. Magoo for instance is a full on legend for his body of work. Even though he didn't win SX or MX titles he did win the USGP and between his all or nothing riding style and his unbelievable sweep of the Trophy and Motocross DesNations he is definitely a "legend". Our current crop of top riders have a ways to go to get into the legend category imho.
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TSCHAM101
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TSCHAM101 2/14/2020 8:52am
2/14/2020 8:52am
crusher773 wrote:
Jeremy McGrath that's a legend. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/13/404218/s1200_6cacc4bd9374fe9ced3ae5dd9658661b.jpg[/img]
Jeremy McGrath that's a legend.

i ride a 4 stroke... but how dare you put the King on the 4 stroke... He belongs on the 2 strokes he won all his titles on.. not his retirement bike Tongue LOL...
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peltier626
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peltier626 2/14/2020 8:59am
2/14/2020 8:59am
Someone's character is important when referenced to a "legend" or legacy. To me Ryan Dungey will become relevant for legend status as time goes on.
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Falcon
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Falcon 2/14/2020 9:52am
2/14/2020 9:52am
crusty_xx wrote:
Where's the option "neither"?
This. Neither option is "legendary." For something to pass into legend, it must have at least two of the following traits:

-Have been performed in a superhuman way, or have been a superhuman feat
-Made an all-time change in the world or in a specific endeavor.
-Have a story attached, which may or may not be true, and which gets embellished as time goes on.

Most MX legends have the first two, and some collect the third over time as well. Although 35 wins and/or one title are both exceptional results, they are not Superhuman.
72 SX Victories is (seemingly) superhuman.
151 Combined wins is superhuman.
Lapping 2nd place in the mud is superhuman.
Etc.

Eli Tomac will certainly be remembered as a "Great," but perhaps not a "legend." Time will tell.
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agn5009
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agn5009 2/14/2020 10:28am
2/14/2020 10:28am
35 wins is amazing. It show cases that you're a phenomenal rider and you should be looked at as such.

However if you wanna be a legend you better win a damn title.

I'll just say this, our sport is weird because we have mx and SX. Two different disciplines that the majority of our guys do. In MX Eli is clearly a legend and will go down as one of the best ever. I wouldn't be shocked to see him win 4 or 5 MX titles. But in SX he hasn't reached that status yet without a title.
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spimx
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spimx 2/14/2020 11:19am
2/14/2020 11:19am
str8line wrote:
35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said...

35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said and done. Eli has arguably shown some of the greatest speed ever seen on a motorcycle too, so there's that.
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their prime fitness against Eli in his prime, Eli would be fighting for 2 nd place.
I didn't put RV because JS7 definitely beat RV in his prime a few times and James was way past his prime when he did it. RV also never had a near perfect season.
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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 2/14/2020 11:24am
2/14/2020 11:24am
crusher773 wrote:
Jeremy McGrath that's a legend. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/13/404218/s1200_6cacc4bd9374fe9ced3ae5dd9658661b.jpg[/img]
Jeremy McGrath that's a legend.

TSCHAM101 wrote:
i ride a 4 stroke... but how dare you put the King on the 4 stroke... He belongs on the 2 strokes he won all his...
i ride a 4 stroke... but how dare you put the King on the 4 stroke... He belongs on the 2 strokes he won all his titles on.. not his retirement bike Tongue LOL...
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Forty
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Forty 2/14/2020 11:26am
2/14/2020 11:26am
Everyone look up “legend” in the dictionary and then come back.
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mx 219
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mx 219 2/14/2020 12:01pm
2/14/2020 12:01pm
Forty wrote:
Everyone look up “legend” in the dictionary and then come back.
So you are saying Eli is a legend?


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jjavaman
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jjavaman 2/14/2020 12:04pm
2/14/2020 12:04pm
peltier626 wrote:
Someone's character is important when referenced to a "legend" or legacy. To me Ryan Dungey will become relevant for legend status as time goes on.
He already is!
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Falcon
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Falcon 2/14/2020 1:18pm
2/14/2020 1:18pm
str8line wrote:
35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said...

35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said and done. Eli has arguably shown some of the greatest speed ever seen on a motorcycle too, so there's that.
spimx wrote:
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their...
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their prime fitness against Eli in his prime, Eli would be fighting for 2 nd place.
I didn't put RV because JS7 definitely beat RV in his prime a few times and James was way past his prime when he did it. RV also never had a near perfect season.
Just playing devil's advocate here; 2015 Eli put some pretty massive gaps on the field.
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early
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early 2/14/2020 1:33pm
2/14/2020 1:33pm
Holy shit, we are 6 weeks into the season we've been waiting to see since the Ryans era ended and this is what y'all are arguing about? Enjoy the damn racing!
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 2/14/2020 1:41pm
2/14/2020 1:41pm
I vote neither, but Tomac has given us some legendary rides. Salt Lake 2017, the first 5 motos of 2015 outdoors, even his battles with Roczen at MXdN in 2013. But if the 1 title and 7 wins guy is Webb, well he's also had some legendary rides. Dallas 2019, his first MXdN in 2015 on the 450, smacking Herlings at the USGP etc.

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fanger
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fanger 2/14/2020 2:37pm
2/14/2020 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 2/15/2020 2:32am
str8line wrote:
35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said...

35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said and done. Eli has arguably shown some of the greatest speed ever seen on a motorcycle too, so there's that.
spimx wrote:
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their...
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their prime fitness against Eli in his prime, Eli would be fighting for 2 nd place.
I didn't put RV because JS7 definitely beat RV in his prime a few times and James was way past his prime when he did it. RV also never had a near perfect season.
Thumbs down if you're an idiot
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agn5009
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agn5009 2/14/2020 2:50pm
2/14/2020 2:50pm
str8line wrote:
35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said...

35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said and done. Eli has arguably shown some of the greatest speed ever seen on a motorcycle too, so there's that.
spimx wrote:
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their...
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their prime fitness against Eli in his prime, Eli would be fighting for 2 nd place.
I didn't put RV because JS7 definitely beat RV in his prime a few times and James was way past his prime when he did it. RV also never had a near perfect season.
fanger wrote:
Thumbs down if you're an idiot
How do you figure? We had JS, RV, RD and CR all out there at the same time winning races and titles. 4 legit non arguable legends racing at the same time. Right now we have a guy or two who "may" be legends (in sx) someday.

In MX we cant argue the fact that Roczen and Tomac are legends. Both have multiple 450 MX titles, that's what makes them already legends in that discipline.
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bama205
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bama205 2/14/2020 3:21pm
2/14/2020 3:21pm
Not a fan of him- but jlaw will be remembered longer than them (from their last race)
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murray88
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murray88 2/14/2020 3:50pm
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bama205 wrote:
Not a fan of him- but jlaw will be remembered longer than them (from their last race)
You’re kidding? Jlaw is a clown.
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uneasy_rider 2/14/2020 3:55pm
2/14/2020 3:55pm
Goon126 wrote:
1 title 9 450 career wins********



1 title 9 450 career wins***
Wouldnt the racer who got it done with less wins be more legendary than the one who cant seal the deal?
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davis224
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davis224 2/14/2020 4:32pm
2/14/2020 4:32pm
str8line wrote:
35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said...

35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said and done. Eli has arguably shown some of the greatest speed ever seen on a motorcycle too, so there's that.
spimx wrote:
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their...
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their prime fitness against Eli in his prime, Eli would be fighting for 2 nd place.
I didn't put RV because JS7 definitely beat RV in his prime a few times and James was way past his prime when he did it. RV also never had a near perfect season.
Maybe in SX, but I'm pretty sure the only person who has Tomac beat on gap over 2nd place is RC. Did Stewart ever win by a minute and a half on the 125? I'm not sure he did. Tomac has had some great come from behind rides in SX though.
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motomike137
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motomike137 2/14/2020 5:09pm
2/14/2020 5:09pm
Falcon wrote:
Just playing devil's advocate here; 2015 Eli put some pretty massive gaps on the field.
Those were definitely "legendary" rides.
blockhead17 2/14/2020 6:03pm
2/14/2020 6:03pm
fullysicmate wrote:
35 wins is a great achievement, not as good as winning a title though.
I’m gonna go against the grain and disagree here..
If it was me, I’d rather have 35 wins, pretty high on the all time list too.
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Suicidal_Tendencies 2/14/2020 6:12pm
2/14/2020 6:12pm
Forty wrote:
Everyone look up “legend” in the dictionary and then come back.
mx 219 wrote:
So you are saying Eli is a legend? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/14/404362/s1200_legend.jpg[/img]
So you are saying Eli is a legend?


With the amount of wins he has, his outdoor titles, and at times his untouchable speed, I would say Eli is a legend in the sport even if he never manages to win a sx title. We still think of Magoo, Bradshaw, and Windham as legends. At least I do.
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plowboy
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plowboy 2/14/2020 6:31pm
2/14/2020 6:31pm
Chopping down entire forests with a single swing of an axe, riding a cyclone with a rattlesnake lasso, stuff like that.
uneasy_rider 2/14/2020 6:48pm
2/14/2020 6:48pm
str8line wrote:
35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said...

35 wins no title to me is more impressive than 9 wins and a title but let's see where they end up when it's all said and done. Eli has arguably shown some of the greatest speed ever seen on a motorcycle too, so there's that.
spimx wrote:
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their...
Nope he has not. Ricky Jeremy and James made much bigger gaps on the field than Eli ever has. If either one were racing in their prime fitness against Eli in his prime, Eli would be fighting for 2 nd place.
I didn't put RV because JS7 definitely beat RV in his prime a few times and James was way past his prime when he did it. RV also never had a near perfect season.
How many titles did JS7 beat RV for, I can't remember. James is a legend, but don't dismiss what a badass RV was.
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LoudLove
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LoudLove 2/14/2020 9:20pm
2/14/2020 9:20pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2020 9:41pm
If there’s even a debate, then the rider doesn’t qualify. To gain “legend” status, the consensus must be universal, or damn close. Hannah, McGrath, Carmichael all qualify without reservation. RV? Lots of titles, but not as dominant as RC nor charismatic as MC. RJ and Bailey? Very solid contenders, but not on everyone’s list. Stewart? Underachiever. Tomac? Choker. Dungey and Reed? Won when the top guys were out.

This is not a slight against the field, but again, the title of legend must require clearing a very high bar. So the answer to the original question is “neither”.
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toroP
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toroP 2/14/2020 10:16pm
2/14/2020 10:16pm
I’m a legendary idiot for having skimmed through this ridiculous Vital debate.
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jorgechavez 2/14/2020 11:54pm
2/14/2020 11:54pm Edited Date/Time 2/15/2020 2:10am
LoudLove wrote:
If there’s even a debate, then the rider doesn’t qualify. To gain “legend” status, the consensus must be universal, or damn close. Hannah, McGrath, Carmichael all...
If there’s even a debate, then the rider doesn’t qualify. To gain “legend” status, the consensus must be universal, or damn close. Hannah, McGrath, Carmichael all qualify without reservation. RV? Lots of titles, but not as dominant as RC nor charismatic as MC. RJ and Bailey? Very solid contenders, but not on everyone’s list. Stewart? Underachiever. Tomac? Choker. Dungey and Reed? Won when the top guys were out.

This is not a slight against the field, but again, the title of legend must require clearing a very high bar. So the answer to the original question is “neither”.
To each their own but I don't need a racer to be charismatic to consider them a legend.

Edit: I’d like to add Roger DeCoster to your list (if it is a list). I think he fits your criteria and is without a doubt a legend of this sport.
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fullysicmate 2/15/2020 12:46am
2/15/2020 12:46am
fullysicmate wrote:
35 wins is a great achievement, not as good as winning a title though.
blockhead17 wrote:
I’m gonna go against the grain and disagree here..
If it was me, I’d rather have 35 wins, pretty high on the all time list too.
Each to their own Smile
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motogrady
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motogrady 2/15/2020 1:19am
2/15/2020 1:19am
bama205 wrote:
Not a fan of him- but jlaw will be remembered longer than them (from their last race)
murray88 wrote:
You’re kidding? Jlaw is a clown.

I dunno Murray, looking at the Webster's dictionary, or whatever is quoted, 338 and 2 both qualify.
Fast, undocumented, notorious, well known, if that ain't 338, what is?

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