What is needed to keep tracks together?

Chris_Cooksey
Edited Date/Time 3/6/2019 12:21pm
This is my suggestion. Feel free to tell me I am an idiot, but be sure and share your idea. No shitting on ideas unless you have a better one, then shit away!

https://www.vitalmx.com/features/Cooksey-Straight-To-The-Point-The-Answ…

Would reduced knobbys benefit the sport?

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BobPA
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BobPA 3/5/2019 4:22pm
3/5/2019 4:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2019 4:28pm
I’d like to see you actually test your theory. Your article is all just speculation until it is tested under exacting conditions. Smaller knobbies will create more wheel spin.....Possibly making it worse?

I do not have a better idea, because I do not see a problem. Smooth SX tracks create follow the leader type scenarios just as bad as one lined ruts. A happy medium always produces the best racing.
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 3/5/2019 4:24pm
3/5/2019 4:24pm
Cooksey, I read in there about local tracks going away to fast as well. Are we actually talking about keeping that from happening? As in removing an element of what makes motocross so great and what separates the men from the boys, at the local level? Trying to keep tracks from getting ruts and bumps?

If that is at all what you meant and if things every went that way, you'd find me riding nothing but desert tracks and trails. Please tell me I understood that wrong.

PS: I'm not calling you an idiot Cool
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Schenk829
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Schenk829 3/5/2019 4:50pm
3/5/2019 4:50pm
I think that trickling down into the amateur ranks would almost be a safety issue, it’s not a bad idea and makes sense but I know personally I wouldn’t want to sacrifice any traction
psg119
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psg119 3/5/2019 4:50pm
3/5/2019 4:50pm
*insert lime joke*

In all seriousness, smaller nobbies means less traction. Less traction would create a much less room for error in my opinion. High sides on to start straights. Possibly scrubs gone wrong, more rhythm mistakes. Could work with simpler tracks I suppose but I don't think that's happening ever. I think the torque of the 250s would tear it up just as much. I don't think they're hammering the throttle out of the corner any less. And I find it hard to believe that the 450s are hammering the throttle 100% out of most SX corners. I could be wrong but that's just my 2 cents.

I think the tracks deteriorating make the racing awesome in my opinion. Most of the time anyways.
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psg119
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psg119 3/5/2019 4:52pm
3/5/2019 4:52pm
Evan_Denysiuk1 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/03/05/329882/s1200_147F6841_AA92_4254_8597_133C33889423.jpg[/img]

you beat me to it haha.
zehn
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zehn 3/5/2019 4:58pm
3/5/2019 4:58pm
The problem is much more attributable to the torque monster 4 strokes
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rp031x
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rp031x 3/5/2019 5:15pm
3/5/2019 5:15pm
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
This is my suggestion. Feel free to tell me I am an idiot, but be sure and share your idea. No shitting on ideas unless you...
This is my suggestion. Feel free to tell me I am an idiot, but be sure and share your idea. No shitting on ideas unless you have a better one, then shit away!

https://www.vitalmx.com/features/Cooksey-Straight-To-The-Point-The-Answ…
Slower bikes. Especially in Supercross. 450's are way to powerful and we could get the same good racing out of slower bikes. Plus, 450s completely destroy the track like 250 two strokes never did.
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Forty
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Forty 3/5/2019 6:44pm
3/5/2019 6:44pm
It’s an idea. And there is a shortage of ideas. Good work!

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Forty
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Forty 3/5/2019 6:46pm
3/5/2019 6:46pm
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
This is my suggestion. Feel free to tell me I am an idiot, but be sure and share your idea. No shitting on ideas unless you...
This is my suggestion. Feel free to tell me I am an idiot, but be sure and share your idea. No shitting on ideas unless you have a better one, then shit away!

https://www.vitalmx.com/features/Cooksey-Straight-To-The-Point-The-Answ…
rp031x wrote:
Slower bikes. Especially in Supercross. 450's are way to powerful and we could get the same good racing out of slower bikes. Plus, 450s completely destroy...
Slower bikes. Especially in Supercross. 450's are way to powerful and we could get the same good racing out of slower bikes. Plus, 450s completely destroy the track like 250 two strokes never did.
The less traction the slower the rider would be required to safely go, the bike would not be less powerful but would require less speed to safely navigate a SX track
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Tarz483
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Tarz483 3/5/2019 6:53pm
3/5/2019 6:53pm
I dont think its a Bad idea , But i dont think they will go for it , just like they wont the other ideas , but its cool that you are trying to think of solutions in my opinion, i like anything that equals things out , i love the sport but its always irritated me that people arent on equal equipment.
Id like anything that equals things out
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wavslide1
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wavslide1 3/5/2019 7:35pm
3/5/2019 7:35pm
Asphalt the track and change the name to road-a-cross. :-)
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GangGreen
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GangGreen 3/5/2019 7:42pm
3/5/2019 7:42pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2019 7:47pm
Time to reduce knob size?

This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard !!!

So, instead of removing the ridiculously outdated “Double-displacement rule” that permits 450cc motocross bikes, a SOLUTION is to make the tires crappier???

You’re claiming tires with less grip will slow riders’ down and cause less track wear. The supplemental “Double-Displacement Rule” should have been modified every two years, like a “Balance of Performance Initiative” works in auto racing. The AMA Classes are still 125cc and 250cc, with a supplemental rule permitting 4-strokes larger displacement. The stupid rule caused this.
I do like that you offer solutions to serious problems and not just complaints, like most Vitards.

Photo Credit: Cudby / RacerX
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Frère Jacques 3/5/2019 7:51pm
3/5/2019 7:51pm
i think ruts make it more essential to have skill and technique. I know the culture in the US is wide open from 50's on but I really think that if you focus on technique the speed will come and more efficiently
Chris_Cooksey 3/5/2019 9:05pm
3/5/2019 9:05pm
GangGreen wrote:
[b]Time to reduce knob size? This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard !!! So, instead of removing the ridiculously outdated “Double-displacement rule” that permits...
Time to reduce knob size?

This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard !!!

So, instead of removing the ridiculously outdated “Double-displacement rule” that permits 450cc motocross bikes, a SOLUTION is to make the tires crappier???

You’re claiming tires with less grip will slow riders’ down and cause less track wear. The supplemental “Double-Displacement Rule” should have been modified every two years, like a “Balance of Performance Initiative” works in auto racing. The AMA Classes are still 125cc and 250cc, with a supplemental rule permitting 4-strokes larger displacement. The stupid rule caused this.
I do like that you offer solutions to serious problems and not just complaints, like most Vitards.

Photo Credit: Cudby / RacerX
Seriously dumbest thing ever, haha I don’t disagree the displacement is too high, but small motor with lots of traction means riders will need to be built like jockeys. No more big riders like Kevin Windham, Davi Millsaps or Weston Peick.
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Gravel
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Gravel 3/5/2019 9:16pm
3/5/2019 9:16pm
400 and 200cc displacement for 4 stroke bikes, against 250 and 125 2 strokes. And intelligent use of lime or other dirt additives.

Please don’t encourage the tire makers to develop tires that wear out even faster! Applaud you thinking of solutions, but I respectfully disagree with the shorter knob idea.
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BR8ES
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BR8ES 3/5/2019 9:21pm
3/5/2019 9:21pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2019 9:22pm
just when you think you've heard it all... I say build asphalt turns, cement whoops, berms and maybe some good old fashioned hardcross jumps out of wood. No knobs, perfect.
GuyB
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GuyB 3/5/2019 9:38pm
3/5/2019 9:38pm
What’s needed?


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GuyB
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GuyB 3/5/2019 9:41pm
3/5/2019 9:41pm
Would tires wear faster? If chunking is one of the big wear issues now, I’d suggest that a shorter knob height might help there.
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Boomslang
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Boomslang 3/5/2019 9:43pm
3/5/2019 9:43pm
The only logical solution is to have More graders out there in between motos repairing and cleaning up.
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urbanlift707
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urbanlift707 3/5/2019 10:07pm
3/5/2019 10:07pm
Exactly boom slang, just get 4 more skidsteers and they can pretty much fix every in the same amount of time.
Compromised 3/5/2019 10:26pm
3/5/2019 10:26pm
Less knobbies, less grip?

You guys must have never tried a rear trials tire...
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Gravel
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Gravel 3/5/2019 10:27pm
3/5/2019 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2019 10:27pm
GuyB wrote:
Would tires wear faster? If chunking is one of the big wear issues now, I’d suggest that a shorter knob height might help there.
I avoid tires that chunk off knobs, and replace my tires when the knobs are worn down between a third and half gone. But I hear you, some tires shed knobs way too easy. I’m more of an off road rider now, I’m buying different tires these days..

Do you think shorter knobs would help the tracks hold up better? Doesn’t the FIM require short knobs for ISDE type racing?
ledger
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ledger 3/5/2019 10:50pm
3/5/2019 10:50pm
Go back to last year's tracks and beyond, where there's more than one racing line and guy's can actually make a pass instead of following. Seems all tracks so far have been the same and somewhat boring. Throw more lime in the mix if weather permits. I'd rather see these guy's have the traction to clear sketchy obstacles than cut down knobs for ruts, and doubt we'll ever see the manu's slow the bikes down. Then again...maybe Science Of Supercross should get involved...?
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ledger
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ledger 3/5/2019 10:55pm
3/5/2019 10:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2019 10:56pm

Ted722
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Ted722 3/5/2019 11:34pm
3/5/2019 11:34pm
40 years later, time to update the rules again. 4-strokes are already traction monsters and it seems the tires these days are looking more and more like the Jammer’s. Mostly for starts/holeshots, but to the detriment of the track holding up.

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CPR
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CPR 3/6/2019 1:10am
3/6/2019 1:10am
1. Design better tracks using more dirt- shape corners and rhythm lanes that promote different lines.
2. Stop using soft dirt- ruts don't allow line changes in corners, whoops or rhythms.
3.Bring back the lime.

Could easily add 4. Lower Cc limit but 1-3 are much easier to implement.
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