What if....

Marty1028
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Marty1028
Honda updated the 150r with FI, redesigned the motor, and made a yamaha type aluminum frame? Could we have a entry level 4 stroke bike that would be competitive in horsepower ranges of a 125? Something like the Geico bikes they build but with a newer motor and updated frame?
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JustMX
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JustMX 1/11/2019 5:28am
1/11/2019 5:28am
Sure, but why?

An overworked, expensive 4 stroke power plant struggling to be competitive with a ktm 125, or even a 105.

Honda should accept that a cr125 with moderate updates would be an awesome seller and require less r&d.
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Marty1028
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Marty1028 1/11/2019 5:34am
1/11/2019 5:34am
JustMX wrote:
Sure, but why? An overworked, expensive 4 stroke power plant struggling to be competitive with a ktm 125, or even a 105. Honda should accept that...
Sure, but why?

An overworked, expensive 4 stroke power plant struggling to be competitive with a ktm 125, or even a 105.

Honda should accept that a cr125 with moderate updates would be an awesome seller and require less r&d.
In my mind im thinking it would be something like a beta 125, the frame size is not as big as a 125 but a tad bit smaller. Something someone could hop on learn on, but when they are ready they can start hitting decent sized jumps on the track. And for us experienced riders a bike that you can absolutely ride the piss out of and it has engine braking, a property of a four stroke that i like.
kb228
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kb228 1/11/2019 6:04am
1/11/2019 6:04am
The biggest benefit of a 125 is the simplicity. Making it a 4 stroke would abolish the entire purpose. If you want a 4 stroke as powerful as a 125 get a 250f made before 2007.
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MXD
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MXD 1/11/2019 6:31am
1/11/2019 6:31am
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's become a safety issue and more importantly to them (although it's sad to say), I'm sure they are losing market share because of it.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 1/11/2019 7:32am
1/11/2019 7:32am
MXD wrote:
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's...
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's become a safety issue and more importantly to them (although it's sad to say), I'm sure they are losing market share because of it.
I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I think you're over-estimating the size of the market. Divide that pie by 5 instead of 3 and it probably isn't worth it for any of them.
MXD
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MXD 1/11/2019 7:39am
1/11/2019 7:39am
MXD wrote:
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's...
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's become a safety issue and more importantly to them (although it's sad to say), I'm sure they are losing market share because of it.
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I think you're over-estimating the size of the market. Divide that pie by 5 instead of...
I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I think you're over-estimating the size of the market. Divide that pie by 5 instead of 3 and it probably isn't worth it for any of them.
Maybe I am, I certainly don't know the numbers either. I was just looking at it from a practical standpoint. If you don't make a 125, you will own 0% of that market. How big is that market? I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it. Also, how many kids go to a KTM, Husky or Yamaha after the supermini so they can ride a 125 and then develop a brand loyalty? I'm sure there is no way to measure that but it has to account for something, I would think.

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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 1/11/2019 7:44am
1/11/2019 7:44am
MXD wrote:
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's...
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's become a safety issue and more importantly to them (although it's sad to say), I'm sure they are losing market share because of it.
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I think you're over-estimating the size of the market. Divide that pie by 5 instead of...
I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I think you're over-estimating the size of the market. Divide that pie by 5 instead of 3 and it probably isn't worth it for any of them.
MXD wrote:
Maybe I am, I certainly don't know the numbers either. I was just looking at it from a practical standpoint. If you don't make a 125...
Maybe I am, I certainly don't know the numbers either. I was just looking at it from a practical standpoint. If you don't make a 125, you will own 0% of that market. How big is that market? I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it. Also, how many kids go to a KTM, Husky or Yamaha after the supermini so they can ride a 125 and then develop a brand loyalty? I'm sure there is no way to measure that but it has to account for something, I would think.

I would love to see them make updated 125's, I just assume smart people have done the market analysis and decided it doesn't make sense financially. Maybe I'm giving Kawasaki and Suzuki too much credit with that assumption.
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bvm111
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bvm111 1/11/2019 7:49am
1/11/2019 7:49am
I’m not a very smart guy, however I’m willing to bet that Honda has a whole lot of smart people that work in Marketing, Business Analytics, Information Management, Budget, R&D, and emerging Markets/ future planning that have probably worked the numbers and understand the demand better than the Vital Think Tank. They are never bringing back the CR125 .... period. Don’t like it then go “Speak with your wallet” and buy a KTM or Husky.
early
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early 1/11/2019 7:50am
1/11/2019 7:50am
MXD wrote:
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's...
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's become a safety issue and more importantly to them (although it's sad to say), I'm sure they are losing market share because of it.
A couple months ago ML threw out a number of 500 yz125s annually. Not a big number.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 1/11/2019 7:53am
1/11/2019 7:53am
bvm111 wrote:
I’m not a very smart guy, however I’m willing to bet that Honda has a whole lot of smart people that work in Marketing, Business Analytics...
I’m not a very smart guy, however I’m willing to bet that Honda has a whole lot of smart people that work in Marketing, Business Analytics, Information Management, Budget, R&D, and emerging Markets/ future planning that have probably worked the numbers and understand the demand better than the Vital Think Tank. They are never bringing back the CR125 .... period. Don’t like it then go “Speak with your wallet” and buy a KTM or Husky.
If Honda is true to its word, it is not building another 2 stroke regardless what the market can support.
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MXD
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MXD 1/11/2019 8:02am
1/11/2019 8:02am
MXD wrote:
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's...
I don't see how the manufacturers don't eventually join in and re-introduce a 125. The demand for one is well beyond nostalgia and fan boyism. It's become a safety issue and more importantly to them (although it's sad to say), I'm sure they are losing market share because of it.
early wrote:
A couple months ago ML threw out a number of 500 yz125s annually. Not a big number.
Wow. I don't doubt that, but it shocks me. I wonder what the KTM/Husky numbers look like.
Kelz87
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Kelz87 1/11/2019 8:06am
1/11/2019 8:06am
If only and buts were candy and nuts, then everyday would be Erntedankfest.
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ML512
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ML512 1/11/2019 8:09am
1/11/2019 8:09am
early wrote:
A couple months ago ML threw out a number of 500 yz125s annually. Not a big number.
Less than.
mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/11/2019 8:27am
1/11/2019 8:27am
early wrote:
A couple months ago ML threw out a number of 500 yz125s annually. Not a big number.
ML512 wrote:
Less than.
How is that even possible? That sounds so low!
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shuggs 1/11/2019 10:32am
1/11/2019 10:32am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
How is that even possible? That sounds so low!
Why? For those that want a 125 surely they would rather go with KTM/ Husky/ TM to get a bike still being developed and improved upon. IMO.
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/11/2019 10:39am
1/11/2019 10:39am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
How is that even possible? That sounds so low!
shuggs wrote:
Why? For those that want a 125 surely they would rather go with KTM/ Husky/ TM to get a bike still being developed and improved upon...
Why? For those that want a 125 surely they would rather go with KTM/ Husky/ TM to get a bike still being developed and improved upon. IMO.
I wouldn't. I'd go YZ, but that's just me. I thought for sure there were way more than that considering I personally know quite a few guys on brand new yz125s. I guess that doesn't mean much though.

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