What happened here?

MotoChris
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MotoChris
Edited Date/Time 11/27/2019 9:37am
IMG_0412.mov
My son hit this jump 20 or more times with no issues and then this. I’m struggling to understand what happened so I can do my best to prevent it from happening again. He is sore but ok.
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Bman_145
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Bman_145 11/25/2019 7:40pm
11/25/2019 7:40pm
Upload to YouTube and then post the link here
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/25/2019 8:09pm
11/25/2019 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2019 6:54am
It only let me watch it once but it sounded like he needed to be in the next gear or still pulling of the top off the jump. The bike revved all the way out and quit pulling at the top.

If you watch him on the little jumps he’s pulling all the way thru the faces of the jump and he lands front end high. That bigger jump he was tapped out at the top so the bike couldn’t keep the front end up.
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suzukiread240
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suzukiread240 11/25/2019 8:25pm
11/25/2019 8:25pm
Looked to me like the suspension loaded up. When you see him hit the base of the jump everything loads and unloads really fast when leaves the lip. If you play it back at a 1/4 speed its pretty obvious. It could be his sag is off a little bit or I noticed that he was sitting down towards the back of the bike until he hit the bast of the jump. This could be what loaded it. Without seeing him hit the jump the other 20 times I couldn't tell you for sure. But I would say check his sag and then work with him on standing up more down the straights. He shifted his weight forward on the bike when he was going up the lip, which I can't image helped things either. That is a crappy situation to be in, and I have done it on several occasions.
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SLAPAHO
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SLAPAHO 11/25/2019 8:28pm
11/25/2019 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 11/25/2019 8:42pm
looks to me like he just over jumped it a little bit and chopped the throttle on take-off.
any video of him jumping it without crashing??
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WheelieNelson 11/25/2019 8:31pm
11/25/2019 8:31pm
Pause right before the jump. he’s sitting down all the way to lip then very last second decided to stand. This would be a non issue had he stayed on the throttle but the combination of standing at the last second and letting off at the top of the lip threw all his weight forward (changing of weight + cutting momentum = long dart) I feel like we’ve all done something similar at some point I know I have
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Moto88
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Moto88 11/25/2019 8:43pm
11/25/2019 8:43pm
Shut the throttle off too early. And if he is into seat bouncing, you can’t let off the throttle.
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FlickitFlat
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FlickitFlat 11/25/2019 8:44pm
11/25/2019 8:44pm
You're likely to get a slew of opinions so I'll give you mine. Honest answer, rider fatigue causing rider error. He sat in the saddle the whole way leading up to the jump. He was not in the attack position and had the suspension unbalanced with the rear end loaded down the straight. He stands up and moves his weight forward on the face and compresses the front while the rear is rebounding from the position change. The front leaves and rebounds and instead of compressing and rebounding with the front, the rear end packs. Basically he unintentionally did a half ass seat bounce on a jump with a run up and got a bad rebound. I'd say from rider fatigue. He wasn't attacking the track and he was not in the proper riding position. If he was tired and riding out of position about the only thing he could do in that situation was blip the throttle at take off. That is to let off before approaching the take off, grabbed a handful of throttle at the bottom and compressed both ends of his suspension into the face evenly and launch properly like he was in the attack position.
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AJ565
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AJ565 11/25/2019 8:44pm
11/25/2019 8:44pm
WheelieNelson wrote:
Pause right before the jump. he’s sitting down all the way to lip then very last second decided to stand. This would be a non issue...
Pause right before the jump. he’s sitting down all the way to lip then very last second decided to stand. This would be a non issue had he stayed on the throttle but the combination of standing at the last second and letting off at the top of the lip threw all his weight forward (changing of weight + cutting momentum = long dart) I feel like we’ve all done something similar at some point I know I have
This right here.
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FGR01
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FGR01 11/25/2019 8:50pm
11/25/2019 8:50pm
The ghost of TFS. That shock had been saving up rebound for like 2 laps.
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lostboy819
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lostboy819 11/25/2019 8:53pm
11/25/2019 8:53pm
Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.
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FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 11/26/2019 2:10am
11/26/2019 2:10am
looks like he wasn't going fast enough and his rebound is too slow.
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MX690
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MX690 11/26/2019 2:42am
11/26/2019 2:42am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2019 2:43am
Sometimes you can just be 12 inches of your usual line and hit a kicker you're not ready for and it kicks you in the arse, it happens.
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sandman768
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sandman768 11/26/2019 4:32am
11/26/2019 4:32am
Just let off throttle too early...no drive off the face...endo...it happens to the best of us...
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MotoChris
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MotoChris 11/26/2019 4:36am
11/26/2019 4:36am
Thanks for all the opinions. Another rider’s dad thought that he ran out of pull on the lip. I was thinking the same thing most of you said, rider fatigue, not being in position and packing the suspension. I could see he quit attacking and wasn’t as focused. My son said he hit a kicker. If he hit a kicker how would he have avoided the endo? Several riders were hitting the line with the kicker and didn’t crash. Sometimes kickers form during a race.
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/26/2019 6:52am
11/26/2019 6:52am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2019 6:54am
MotoChris wrote:
Thanks for all the opinions. Another rider’s dad thought that he ran out of pull on the lip. I was thinking the same thing most of...
Thanks for all the opinions. Another rider’s dad thought that he ran out of pull on the lip. I was thinking the same thing most of you said, rider fatigue, not being in position and packing the suspension. I could see he quit attacking and wasn’t as focused. My son said he hit a kicker. If he hit a kicker how would he have avoided the endo? Several riders were hitting the line with the kicker and didn’t crash. Sometimes kickers form during a race.
You have to hit a kicker still pulling hard on the gas. As in your launching off of it.

When he crashed it didn’t seem like he chopped the throttle, it sounded like the bike had no more rpm’s to give, he was tapped out!

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nskerb
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nskerb 11/26/2019 6:59am
11/26/2019 6:59am
Other than body movement/positioning. Rebound can throw you for a loop if it’s too pogo-sticky.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 11/26/2019 7:00am
11/26/2019 7:00am
My vote goes for him simply hitting a small kicker on the face.

When that happens, your body normally reacts by itself automatically- moving weight towards the rear and WFO with the throttle hand. However, most of the time when that happens to me it turns out bad. LOL
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 11/26/2019 7:02am
11/26/2019 7:02am
FlickitFlat wrote:
You're likely to get a slew of opinions so I'll give you mine. Honest answer, rider fatigue causing rider error. He sat in the saddle the...
You're likely to get a slew of opinions so I'll give you mine. Honest answer, rider fatigue causing rider error. He sat in the saddle the whole way leading up to the jump. He was not in the attack position and had the suspension unbalanced with the rear end loaded down the straight. He stands up and moves his weight forward on the face and compresses the front while the rear is rebounding from the position change. The front leaves and rebounds and instead of compressing and rebounding with the front, the rear end packs. Basically he unintentionally did a half ass seat bounce on a jump with a run up and got a bad rebound. I'd say from rider fatigue. He wasn't attacking the track and he was not in the proper riding position. If he was tired and riding out of position about the only thing he could do in that situation was blip the throttle at take off. That is to let off before approaching the take off, grabbed a handful of throttle at the bottom and compressed both ends of his suspension into the face evenly and launch properly like he was in the attack position.
X2 on this. He looked tired, and in the jumps before it you could see he already seemed a bit sloppy. We've probably all done something similar at some point.
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109
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109 11/26/2019 7:34am
11/26/2019 7:34am
MotoChris wrote:
Thanks for all the opinions. Another rider’s dad thought that he ran out of pull on the lip. I was thinking the same thing most of...
Thanks for all the opinions. Another rider’s dad thought that he ran out of pull on the lip. I was thinking the same thing most of you said, rider fatigue, not being in position and packing the suspension. I could see he quit attacking and wasn’t as focused. My son said he hit a kicker. If he hit a kicker how would he have avoided the endo? Several riders were hitting the line with the kicker and didn’t crash. Sometimes kickers form during a race.
If he’d kept driving off that lip at that speed he would have OJed by miles.

There’s 3 types of jump.

1. Jumping under full acceleration. Usually out of a corner.
2. A jump at constant speed. Usually mid straight.
3. A jump while slowing down. Usually going into a corner.

This jump is number 2. Should never ever be sat down before take off for 2 and 3.

For your average guy, this jump should be taken with a constant smooth entry speed, stand up, balanced with a smooth application of throttle from the bottom of the up ramp.

Faster expert riders will hit this flat out until the bottom of the up ramp and chop the throttle. As the jump is steep and relatively small.

Glad your kid is ok. Training on basic fundamentals with a good coach will help his riding immensely.
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MotoChris
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MotoChris 11/26/2019 10:32am
11/26/2019 10:32am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2019 10:45am
Thanks for all the feedback. This video is not a good representation of his ability. He is usually very smooth and precise. I thought all along that his mistakes come with fatigue and/or lack of focus but I wanted to see if anyone noticed something I was missing.
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NITRODOG
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NITRODOG 11/26/2019 7:52pm
11/26/2019 7:52pm
a lot of good replies and info here, but what I see, and what I think the root cause is starts well before he hits the jump. This was simple rider error. The Root cause, I believe is a lack of concentration.

I raced my grandson from pw50's all the way through 450A , ready to get his pro lic. and he could deal with just about anything as long as he was 100% concentration on his riding. anytime we were practicing, if I saw him start making little mistakes, I would pull him in and talk to him.

I asked him once what he thinks about when he is racing? and he said what do you mean, I don't think about anything. I said it's all action and re-action right? he said yes.....right answer...He wouldn't let me pit board him either because he says it breaks his concentration.
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garagedog
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garagedog 11/26/2019 9:02pm
11/26/2019 9:02pm
Looked like he was to the right of the main line up the jump.
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mxpro252
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mxpro252 11/26/2019 9:29pm
11/26/2019 9:29pm
Saw this post earlier and just got around to watching the video out of curiosity. From the start of that clip, I couldn’t help but think he looked a little out of control and/or careless. Nothing insane, just little things riders do that you notice after a while. Front end floating a bit high, landing a little off to the side, looking like he’s checking up due to the rider in front of him, looking back and just not quite as attentive on what he’s doing, then goes for a respectable jump and just had a moment where there might have been a small lapse in focus (where his body was, throttle control, similar stuff others have said).

Glad he’s ok. No matter what, these types of things are how riders learn. Even if he doesn’t entirely know what went wrong, he’ll likely be more cognizant of what he’s doing on stuff like that going forward. its a brutal sport that can take down the absolute best in the blink of an eye.
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HighPlainsSquid 11/27/2019 6:47am
11/27/2019 6:47am Edited Date/Time 11/27/2019 6:54am
WheelieNelson wrote:
Pause right before the jump. he’s sitting down all the way to lip then very last second decided to stand. This would be a non issue...
Pause right before the jump. he’s sitting down all the way to lip then very last second decided to stand. This would be a non issue had he stayed on the throttle but the combination of standing at the last second and letting off at the top of the lip threw all his weight forward (changing of weight + cutting momentum = long dart) I feel like we’ve all done something similar at some point I know I have
Totally agree. I ride 125's and 150's and this'll happen if you don't keep the throttle on and/or don't maintain the correct body positioning for the jump. Totally agree on the changing of weight + throttle change in this case. I've had it happen many times when I was lollygagging a little bit on a jump, even one I've hit 100 times. In fact, it's kind of funny to get slack on a jump and then discover how wicked your favorite jump can be!!!

Agree with the poster above me, too. FIRST thing I noticed was some front end high stuff, that thing at the base of the jump and having BTDT with my son, I'm seeing someone riding a little too cocky w/out the actual control needed. My son (16 now) used to get kicked around on jumps and I told him to start doing little whips and leans and such to _control_ the bike and he's 100% better now. We spend time practicing stuff like letting off on on a safe jump face, accelerating hard up the face, and etc and it pays off. On son's last MX race, his throttle cable broke right on the face of the last jump- literally the finish line jump- and thanks to practicing jump control, he coolly pulled back, leaned way back, and pulled the front wheel _BARELY_ over the lip of the mid-jump "double" to save the day.
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Thisusernameisavailable 11/27/2019 9:19am
11/27/2019 9:19am
Id say he's holding the gear too long & he ran out of drive because he was at max rpm. You could sense it even in the straight with jumps just two corners before.

Get him to ride a gear higher everywhere. He'll go faster.
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RudyRayMo
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RudyRayMo 11/27/2019 10:48am
11/27/2019 10:48am
He didn’t catch the rebound, on steep faces I lean in at the bottom and fat joe off the lip.
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VetMX.com
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VetMX.com 11/27/2019 10:53am
11/27/2019 10:53am
Something happened on the jump before too. He landed off line and he looked back as if he did not understand what the bike did. He may be ready for a bigger bike too.
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mtl
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mtl 11/27/2019 10:56am
11/27/2019 10:56am
Looks like a simulated seat bounce - stiff legs off the jump (or pushing into it) that gave the same net effect of a seat bounce. Did it early in my riding career, cartwheeled and never repeated that mistake =)
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