What exactly is an EFi smoker gonna give us?

Skidaddle
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3/18/2017 1:13pm
cslacker wrote:
Carbs atomizer fuel better than efi without high pressure... that's why kawi came out with the duel injector setup. Not saying with a better design efi...
Carbs atomizer fuel better than efi without high pressure... that's why kawi came out with the duel injector setup. Not saying with a better design efi can't make more power. Just saying a simple switch from a carb to efi without any other changes, carb makes more power.
I am actually looking forward to this just so you know.
Skidaddle wrote:
Well, My efi runs at 32 lbs. Some need 45 or so. That's still less than a normal house garden hose at the bib and Far...
Well, My efi runs at 32 lbs. Some need 45 or so.
That's still less than a normal house garden hose at the bib
and Far from high pressure. True DI needs 100+ even up to 150.
That's high pressure.

And again you're talking 4 strokes.

ALL being equal, there is no way EFI wont make more power on 2 stroke. It's a simple air pump.

Hell, with EFI the limiting factor is the reeds.
cslacker wrote:
Sorry, but you are wrong. Efi works great at low throttle for atomization, even better than a carb... but... That is one of the reasons efi...
Sorry, but you are wrong. Efi works great at low throttle for atomization, even better than a carb... but... That is one of the reasons efi comes with larger diameter throttle bodies. Carbs begin the a/f mix prior to the carb body when above about 1/2 throttle. The fuel is already breaking up by the time it passes the needle jet. Efi is better at low throttle openings but cannot keep up with a carbs efficiency at large throttle openings purely because of atomization. Once again, this is why kawi has added the 2nd injector. The fuel, at large throttle openings, doesn't have the time to break up enough.

It's science so.... you might not understand it...

I agree that carbs are archaic and I am excited to see what is in store for efi 2 strokes. But carbs really are good at some things. Atomization is 1 of them and is a big part of the equation for big power.

Once again, I agree with you to an extent. But it really isn't and won't be as good as you are claiming. Best part is... one of us will be proved right finally, soon enough.
I understand your theory on fuel atomization, but if the injector can handle that much flow, at the needed rate of injector timing, it's still better than a carb. We are talking less than 10,000 RPMs so it's well within the injectors ability. Or should be.

The reason reeds CAN be a limiting HP factor with EFI is because I ran 14 mm larger throttle bodies with perfect 1185-1200 EGT's.
On a flow bench, the reeds can be blocking what the throttle bodies could flow with the butterflies open.. Less flow equals less power on an engine.

This was a few many years before V Force reeds were available which may or may not have flowed more than stock cages with say Boyeson petals. The reeds couldn't flow more than about 10 mm larger

On a true piston port engine, there was no issue because you're simply limited to port timing.. I have no idea how big a throttle body you could run because nothing larger was available.
Skidaddle
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3/18/2017 1:23pm
gsxr6 wrote:
150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling...
150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling galore! Hence why turbo four strokes with di can get away with 87 octane.
Not on a 2 stroke.
Do you even know how they build the pressure to inject? Its not with fuel line pressure.

E tecs injection pressure is 500 Lbs. FAR FAR Over the fuel line pressure.

You need to learn how it works.
Skidaddle
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3/18/2017 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2017 1:45pm
gsxr6 wrote:
150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling...
150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling galore! Hence why turbo four strokes with di can get away with 87 octane.
Straight out of the 800 sled manual. Again, the injected fuel is ~500 PSI, but that is over 5 times the line pressure. You might want to buy a sled, and see how it actually works through experience. You know, actually do it. E-tec is true 2 stroke DI.

Test at 2,000 or more RPM.
Monitor the pressure gauge during test mode.
Fuel pressure should rise to approximately
303 kPa (44 PSI).

Fuel pressure should decrease and stabilize to ap-
proximately 210 kPa (30 PSI).
Fuel pressure should remain stable throughout remaining tests.
rrjr
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3/18/2017 1:43pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2017 1:48pm
rrjr wrote:
Qualify your statement please. That's just bullshit. What have snowmobiles and outboard engines done to keep 2 stroke motorcycles legal in California. They sure didn't do...
Qualify your statement please.

That's just bullshit. What have snowmobiles and outboard engines done to keep 2 stroke motorcycles legal in California.
They sure didn't do anything to help new 2 stroke pwc's from being banned.
Skidaddle wrote:
They proved 2 stroke engines can and do burn cleaner than comparable HP 4 strokes. Read the reports CARB did. 2 strokes have won some awards...
They proved 2 stroke engines can and do burn cleaner than comparable HP 4 strokes.
Read the reports CARB did. 2 strokes have won some awards on this clean burn technology also..

That said maybe someday dirt bikes will get green stickers also.







You didn't answer the question. What did snowmobiles and outboard engines do to keep 2 stroke motorcycles from being banned in California?
Just because you say that snowmobiles 2 strokes run cleaner than comparable HP 4 stroke snowmobiles doesn't mean squat to the people at CARB when considering legislation on dirtbikes. Two totally different classifications of vehicles.

Post a link to these awards that 2 stroke snowmobiles have won from CARB

There are plenty dirtbikes that have green stickers. I own two of them.

The Shop

Skidaddle
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3/18/2017 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2017 1:58pm
rrjr wrote:
You didn't answer the question. What did snowmobiles and outboard engines do to keep 2 stroke motorcycles from being banned in California? Just because you say...
You didn't answer the question. What did snowmobiles and outboard engines do to keep 2 stroke motorcycles from being banned in California?
Just because you say that snowmobiles 2 strokes run cleaner than comparable HP 4 stroke snowmobiles doesn't mean squat to the people at CARB when considering legislation on dirtbikes. Two totally different classifications of vehicles.

Post a link to these awards that 2 stroke snowmobiles have won from CARB

There are plenty dirtbikes that have green stickers. I own two of them.

You went for posting about PWCs(Lake Lice) to now saying 2 stroke dirt bikes are banned in California.
You're weaving more than Vince Friese on a 12 pack.

That's just bullshit. What have snowmobiles and outboard engines done to keep 2 stroke motorcycles legal in California. They sure didn't do anything to help new 2 stroke pwc's from being banned.


Maybe re-read my post.

Drtbykr
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3/18/2017 2:16pm
Ha.

I think it will saw the economy, once you see one you will be very open to creative financing.
BobPA
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3/18/2017 2:42pm
Sea doo, Polaris, and Kawasaki had DI two stroke jet skis in the late 90's....and man did they suck. They really suck today because they are impossible to fix. Granted that is dated technology.
rrjr
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3/18/2017 7:02pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2017 7:04pm
rrjr wrote:
You didn't answer the question. What did snowmobiles and outboard engines do to keep 2 stroke motorcycles from being banned in California? Just because you say...
You didn't answer the question. What did snowmobiles and outboard engines do to keep 2 stroke motorcycles from being banned in California?
Just because you say that snowmobiles 2 strokes run cleaner than comparable HP 4 stroke snowmobiles doesn't mean squat to the people at CARB when considering legislation on dirtbikes. Two totally different classifications of vehicles.

Post a link to these awards that 2 stroke snowmobiles have won from CARB

There are plenty dirtbikes that have green stickers. I own two of them.

Skidaddle wrote:
You went for posting about PWCs(Lake Lice) to now saying 2 stroke dirt bikes are banned in California. You're weaving more than Vince Friese on a...
You went for posting about PWCs(Lake Lice) to now saying 2 stroke dirt bikes are banned in California.
You're weaving more than Vince Friese on a 12 pack.

That's just bullshit. What have snowmobiles and outboard engines done to keep 2 stroke motorcycles legal in California. They sure didn't do anything to help new 2 stroke pwc's from being banned.


Maybe re-read my post.

No you're the one that said two stroke snowmobiles kept two stroke motorcycles from being banned in California.
Then you went on to say that they have received awards from CARB.

So show me these awards. You can't because there aren't any. Explain how snowmobiles have kept two stroke motorcycles from being banned in California. You can't because there isn't any proof.

I used the banning of two stroke pwc's in California as an example of how your theory of snowmobiles saving the two stroke in California is complete bs
Skidaddle
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3/18/2017 7:31pm
rrjr wrote:
No you're the one that said two stroke snowmobiles kept two stroke motorcycles from being banned in California. Then you went on to say that they...
No you're the one that said two stroke snowmobiles kept two stroke motorcycles from being banned in California.
Then you went on to say that they have received awards from CARB.

So show me these awards. You can't because there aren't any. Explain how snowmobiles have kept two stroke motorcycles from being banned in California. You can't because there isn't any proof.

I used the banning of two stroke pwc's in California as an example of how your theory of snowmobiles saving the two stroke in California is complete bs
No, I didn't. I did not say motorcycles. I also did NOT say CARB Awarded any awards.

You need to read closer before posting.

I said 2 strokes, because CARB wanted to end it all until the boat and sled people stepped in with real emissions testing they could verify.

They even wanted closed course racing bikes stopped. They even had talks about banning leaded fuel in off road closed course, and in NHRA drag racing.

AND that was even before they banned fuel containing MTBE.

For example, this is my exact post. AND I DID NOT say CARB Awarded an award.
I said 2 strokes have won awards. Which they have many times. through MTU and S.A.E. the Society of Automotive Engineers.

3/17/2017 12:26 PM

Without them, 2 strokes would have been banned completely in California. Think about that.

They proved 2 stroke engines can and do burn cleaner than comparable HP 4 strokes.
Read the reports CARB did. 2 strokes have won some awards on this clean burn technology also..

That said maybe someday dirt bikes will get green stickers also.

rrjr
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3/18/2017 8:50pm
Nice try cutting and pasting from 2 different replies to prove your point.

Please provide a link that shows snowmobile manufacturers had something to do with convincing CARB to continue to allow two strokes in California. Like I said before if they did it sure didn't help the pwc's or as you called them "lake lice"
Please provide a link to the reports CARB did about this subject.

Fuel containing MTBE is not banned in California. VP Fuels uses it to oxygenate some of their products.

The OP's question was about 2 stroke motorcycle EFI. Not snowmobiles saving the two stroke. This is a motorcycle forum.
RickA
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3/19/2017 5:55am
rrjr wrote:
Nice try cutting and pasting from 2 different replies to prove your point. Please provide a link that shows snowmobile manufacturers had something to do with...
Nice try cutting and pasting from 2 different replies to prove your point.

Please provide a link that shows snowmobile manufacturers had something to do with convincing CARB to continue to allow two strokes in California. Like I said before if they did it sure didn't help the pwc's or as you called them "lake lice"
Please provide a link to the reports CARB did about this subject.

Fuel containing MTBE is not banned in California. VP Fuels uses it to oxygenate some of their products.

The OP's question was about 2 stroke motorcycle EFI. Not snowmobiles saving the two stroke. This is a motorcycle forum.
MTBE has been banned in California and a few other states going back as far as 1999.
harescrambled
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3/19/2017 7:34am
Skidaddle wrote:
Wow, really? OK Follow along junior and maybe try ecstacy instead of acid and open your mind. Lets give you a lesson on how dirt bike...
Wow, really? OK Follow along junior and maybe try ecstacy instead of acid and open your mind. Lets give you a lesson on how dirt bike companies don't make the parts.
1. An injector doesn't know what it's on. It just squirts fuel in the amount and time it is told.

Take an injector, get the OEM part number, for the Brand. Bosch, ND, whatever. Do a cross reference.

If you need help, get the Part number for the bikes OEM, cross that with the actual brands part number. ie Kawasaki Pt number 123 crosses to a Bosch ABC for example

There are only a handful of injector manufacturers, just like spark plugs.
By your logic, there would be 2,000 different spark plugs. There isn't.

A NGK plug doesn't know what bike, sled, car, truck or lawnmower it is in, and neither does a freakin injector.

If you can get it for 15 bucks at autozone in a Box that says Bosch or whatever, instead of KTM, why pay 100 at the dirt bike dealer? Do some research. It's easy now with the internet.

Do you also buy 25 dollar NGK plugs in the green Kawi box?

Do you really think Hondaline oil is made by Honda?
Yamalube made by Yamaha?

Its all rebranded and labeled. Go ask your autoshop teacher.

Better yet, don't do that. He'll probably tell you Ford motor oil is made by Ford.
Ford doesn't have an oil refinery.
It's Conoco Phillips.

The OEMS don't even make their own pistons.

Savvy?
Not to be a dick, but an injector doesn't know what amount of fuel it's allowing through itself. It merely stays open as long as the ECM keeps it open. That being said, you are absolutely correct about injector and sparkplug replacement. I'll go one further and say for injectors you don't even need to buy from the same people..AKA Bosch, etc. All you truly need is one that fits in the same hole and will connect to the fuel supply, and has the same max flow in pounds per hour. Of course having the same electrical connector is helpful too
harescrambled
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3/19/2017 7:59am
Back to the original question..."What exactly is an EFI smoker gonna give us?" It's not going to make a difference if the US government enacts their 100% tariff on European motorcycles that displace less than 500cc.
RickA
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3/19/2017 8:09am
Skidaddle wrote:
Wow, really? OK Follow along junior and maybe try ecstacy instead of acid and open your mind. Lets give you a lesson on how dirt bike...
Wow, really? OK Follow along junior and maybe try ecstacy instead of acid and open your mind. Lets give you a lesson on how dirt bike companies don't make the parts.
1. An injector doesn't know what it's on. It just squirts fuel in the amount and time it is told.

Take an injector, get the OEM part number, for the Brand. Bosch, ND, whatever. Do a cross reference.

If you need help, get the Part number for the bikes OEM, cross that with the actual brands part number. ie Kawasaki Pt number 123 crosses to a Bosch ABC for example

There are only a handful of injector manufacturers, just like spark plugs.
By your logic, there would be 2,000 different spark plugs. There isn't.

A NGK plug doesn't know what bike, sled, car, truck or lawnmower it is in, and neither does a freakin injector.

If you can get it for 15 bucks at autozone in a Box that says Bosch or whatever, instead of KTM, why pay 100 at the dirt bike dealer? Do some research. It's easy now with the internet.

Do you also buy 25 dollar NGK plugs in the green Kawi box?

Do you really think Hondaline oil is made by Honda?
Yamalube made by Yamaha?

Its all rebranded and labeled. Go ask your autoshop teacher.

Better yet, don't do that. He'll probably tell you Ford motor oil is made by Ford.
Ford doesn't have an oil refinery.
It's Conoco Phillips.

The OEMS don't even make their own pistons.

Savvy?
Not to be a dick, but an injector doesn't know what amount of fuel it's allowing through itself. It merely stays open as long as the...
Not to be a dick, but an injector doesn't know what amount of fuel it's allowing through itself. It merely stays open as long as the ECM keeps it open. That being said, you are absolutely correct about injector and sparkplug replacement. I'll go one further and say for injectors you don't even need to buy from the same people..AKA Bosch, etc. All you truly need is one that fits in the same hole and will connect to the fuel supply, and has the same max flow in pounds per hour. Of course having the same electrical connector is helpful too
Geez, there is a lot more to an injector than just Flow rate. They have high impedance, low impedance, hold or saturated, different duty cycle ratings, some operate on square wave.. some sine wave.. positive pintle, disc, 4 hole injectors..
it's not as simple as just plugging it in, lol. Make sure you know what your buying
RickA
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3/19/2017 8:14am
Skidaddle wrote:
Wow, really? OK Follow along junior and maybe try ecstacy instead of acid and open your mind. Lets give you a lesson on how dirt bike...
Wow, really? OK Follow along junior and maybe try ecstacy instead of acid and open your mind. Lets give you a lesson on how dirt bike companies don't make the parts.
1. An injector doesn't know what it's on. It just squirts fuel in the amount and time it is told.

Take an injector, get the OEM part number, for the Brand. Bosch, ND, whatever. Do a cross reference.

If you need help, get the Part number for the bikes OEM, cross that with the actual brands part number. ie Kawasaki Pt number 123 crosses to a Bosch ABC for example

There are only a handful of injector manufacturers, just like spark plugs.
By your logic, there would be 2,000 different spark plugs. There isn't.

A NGK plug doesn't know what bike, sled, car, truck or lawnmower it is in, and neither does a freakin injector.

If you can get it for 15 bucks at autozone in a Box that says Bosch or whatever, instead of KTM, why pay 100 at the dirt bike dealer? Do some research. It's easy now with the internet.

Do you also buy 25 dollar NGK plugs in the green Kawi box?

Do you really think Hondaline oil is made by Honda?
Yamalube made by Yamaha?

Its all rebranded and labeled. Go ask your autoshop teacher.

Better yet, don't do that. He'll probably tell you Ford motor oil is made by Ford.
Ford doesn't have an oil refinery.
It's Conoco Phillips.

The OEMS don't even make their own pistons.

Savvy?
Not to be a dick, but an injector doesn't know what amount of fuel it's allowing through itself. It merely stays open as long as the...
Not to be a dick, but an injector doesn't know what amount of fuel it's allowing through itself. It merely stays open as long as the ECM keeps it open. That being said, you are absolutely correct about injector and sparkplug replacement. I'll go one further and say for injectors you don't even need to buy from the same people..AKA Bosch, etc. All you truly need is one that fits in the same hole and will connect to the fuel supply, and has the same max flow in pounds per hour. Of course having the same electrical connector is helpful too
Did I mention different injector flow ratings are based on different Fuel pressures? That's a very big deal.
rrjr
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3/19/2017 2:34pm
RickA wrote:
MTBE has been banned in California and a few other states going back as far as 1999.
No it hasn't. It's legal for use in off road vehicles. This is VP Fuels safety data sheets. Scroll down to the middle of page 11. You'll see it listed
RickA
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3/19/2017 2:55pm
Yes well aware of what's in their fuel. You should jump on the other thread, we having been talking about this for 3 days. VP makes a California legal Ethanol oxygenated fuel.

I don't know about off road use.
RickA
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3/19/2017 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2017 3:05pm
RickA wrote:
MTBE has been banned in California and a few other states going back as far as 1999.
rrjr wrote:
No it hasn't. It's legal for use in off road vehicles. This is VP Fuels safety data sheets. Scroll down to the middle of page 11...
No it hasn't. It's legal for use in off road vehicles. This is VP Fuels safety data sheets. Scroll down to the middle of page 11. You'll see it listed
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document the state released. They take it serious, they want your VIN number and everything.
Bummer, glad I don't live there

https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/advs/advs397.pdf
Skidaddle
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3/19/2017 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2017 4:33pm
RickA wrote:
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document...
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document the state released. They take it serious, they want your VIN number and everything.
Bummer, glad I don't live there

https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/advs/advs397.pdf
Once again rrjr is posting without knowledge that CARB and the EPA nazis also wanted 2 stroke leaf blowets banned.

Most everything here is ethanol, ie U4E and other Ethanol fuels because they arent going to risk fines
Here is another.


MS109E is designed for the same applications as Motorsport 109, offering the same substantial power increases and protection against detonation. Oxygenated with ethanol, MS109E can be used in all 50 states, including those that restrict the use of MTBE in fuels.

California Motor vehicles used, on or off-road, for work, pleasure, or recreation, i.e. cars, trucks, 4X4’s, motorcycles, dirt bikes, ATV’s, dune buggies, sand rails, and other vehicles are not racing vehicles as defined. It is illegal to sell, offer for sale, supply, and offer for supply racing gasoline that is not certified as California RFG for use in non-racing motor vehicles in California.
rrjr
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3/19/2017 6:18pm
RickA wrote:
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document...
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document the state released. They take it serious, they want your VIN number and everything.
Bummer, glad I don't live there

https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/advs/advs397.pdf
Skidaddle wrote:
Once again rrjr is posting without knowledge that CARB and the EPA nazis also wanted 2 stroke leaf blowets banned. Most everything here is ethanol, ie...
Once again rrjr is posting without knowledge that CARB and the EPA nazis also wanted 2 stroke leaf blowets banned.

Most everything here is ethanol, ie U4E and other Ethanol fuels because they arent going to risk fines
Here is another.


MS109E is designed for the same applications as Motorsport 109, offering the same substantial power increases and protection against detonation. Oxygenated with ethanol, MS109E can be used in all 50 states, including those that restrict the use of MTBE in fuels.

California Motor vehicles used, on or off-road, for work, pleasure, or recreation, i.e. cars, trucks, 4X4’s, motorcycles, dirt bikes, ATV’s, dune buggies, sand rails, and other vehicles are not racing vehicles as defined. It is illegal to sell, offer for sale, supply, and offer for supply racing gasoline that is not certified as California RFG for use in non-racing motor vehicles in California.
That link provided says nothing about the use of MTBE. It only mentions lead in fuel. The requirement for consumers to provide VIN numbers and other information is clearly stated in that CARB notice to be suggestions only. Not legally required.
I've been buying a 5 gal pail of VP race fuel every 2 weeks long before that CARB notice came out. Never have I been asked for my VIN number, my address or where I was racing. The 1st time you buy it and then once a year after you're asked for your drivers license and they have you sign a form that says you know that the fuel is intended for racing vehicles on closed course tracks. After they have your signed form on file all they ask you when you purchase fuel is "Do we have your form on file?" Answer yes and give them your money and you're done.

Once again skidaddle you try to sway opinion your way by posting untruths or changing the intent of the conversation.

We're talking about fuel with MTBE not MS109E with ethanol. Post anything about ethanol fuels you want but it doesn't mean anything because we're talking about a completely different subject.

Like most things, you're wrong about the leaf blower ban. It was outlawed in several California cities because of noise not because it was a two stroke. I'm surprised that you didn't claim that snowmobiles saved them.

I'm still waiting for the CARB reports that show the snowmobile manufacturers saved the two stroke in California like you claim.


gsxr6
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3/19/2017 6:48pm
After doing a bit of research on e tec injectors it's actually pretty surprising this hasn't made it to dirt bikes. Quite the injectors they have.
RickA
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3/19/2017 7:02pm
RickA wrote:
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document...
IT IS indeed Illegal for off road use. MTBE can only be purchased and used in SANCTIONED racing events in California. I just read the document the state released. They take it serious, they want your VIN number and everything.
Bummer, glad I don't live there

https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/advs/advs397.pdf
Skidaddle wrote:
Once again rrjr is posting without knowledge that CARB and the EPA nazis also wanted 2 stroke leaf blowets banned. Most everything here is ethanol, ie...
Once again rrjr is posting without knowledge that CARB and the EPA nazis also wanted 2 stroke leaf blowets banned.

Most everything here is ethanol, ie U4E and other Ethanol fuels because they arent going to risk fines
Here is another.


MS109E is designed for the same applications as Motorsport 109, offering the same substantial power increases and protection against detonation. Oxygenated with ethanol, MS109E can be used in all 50 states, including those that restrict the use of MTBE in fuels.

California Motor vehicles used, on or off-road, for work, pleasure, or recreation, i.e. cars, trucks, 4X4’s, motorcycles, dirt bikes, ATV’s, dune buggies, sand rails, and other vehicles are not racing vehicles as defined. It is illegal to sell, offer for sale, supply, and offer for supply racing gasoline that is not certified as California RFG for use in non-racing motor vehicles in California.
rrjr wrote:
That link provided says nothing about the use of MTBE. It only mentions lead in fuel. The requirement for consumers to provide VIN numbers and other...
That link provided says nothing about the use of MTBE. It only mentions lead in fuel. The requirement for consumers to provide VIN numbers and other information is clearly stated in that CARB notice to be suggestions only. Not legally required.
I've been buying a 5 gal pail of VP race fuel every 2 weeks long before that CARB notice came out. Never have I been asked for my VIN number, my address or where I was racing. The 1st time you buy it and then once a year after you're asked for your drivers license and they have you sign a form that says you know that the fuel is intended for racing vehicles on closed course tracks. After they have your signed form on file all they ask you when you purchase fuel is "Do we have your form on file?" Answer yes and give them your money and you're done.

Once again skidaddle you try to sway opinion your way by posting untruths or changing the intent of the conversation.

We're talking about fuel with MTBE not MS109E with ethanol. Post anything about ethanol fuels you want but it doesn't mean anything because we're talking about a completely different subject.

Like most things, you're wrong about the leaf blower ban. It was outlawed in several California cities because of noise not because it was a two stroke. I'm surprised that you didn't claim that snowmobiles saved them.

I'm still waiting for the CARB reports that show the snowmobile manufacturers saved the two stroke in California like you claim.


It's sad in anycase. MTBE is just Alcohol, it comes from Methanol instead of Ethanol. Everything these days is banned, thank God that Trump is slashing the EPA funding and dropping regulations. We are all for clean, but common sense gets lost.

Amsoil was making Octane boost, the REAL stuff with Nickel Carbonyl.. OSHA and the EPA came in and said no way. It all helps for a complete burn, it doesn't do whole bunch for performance in small quantities like U4. I still think VP is worth the money from a quality fuel standpoint.

You know, I used to play with Mercury as a kid in the lap. Guess what, I'm fine. Well, some of you don't think so

California should break off and house all the liberal shitheads. Leave the rest of us alone
rrjr
Posts
1133
Joined
11/1/2012
Location
CA US
3/19/2017 7:50pm
RickA wrote:
It's sad in anycase. MTBE is just Alcohol, it comes from Methanol instead of Ethanol. Everything these days is banned, thank God that Trump is slashing...
It's sad in anycase. MTBE is just Alcohol, it comes from Methanol instead of Ethanol. Everything these days is banned, thank God that Trump is slashing the EPA funding and dropping regulations. We are all for clean, but common sense gets lost.

Amsoil was making Octane boost, the REAL stuff with Nickel Carbonyl.. OSHA and the EPA came in and said no way. It all helps for a complete burn, it doesn't do whole bunch for performance in small quantities like U4. I still think VP is worth the money from a quality fuel standpoint.

You know, I used to play with Mercury as a kid in the lap. Guess what, I'm fine. Well, some of you don't think so

California should break off and house all the liberal shitheads. Leave the rest of us alone
Right on Brother. The regulations imposed by the liberal we know whats best party has nothing to do with any thought of saving the environment. It might have started with good intentions but now it's all about the money.

Same deal with lead paint. As a kid I used to lick lead painted walls and chew on my #2 lead pencils all the time.
Skidaddle
Posts
1707
Joined
7/19/2016
Location
Woodland, CA US
3/20/2017 7:22am
gsxr6 wrote:
After doing a bit of research on e tec injectors it's actually pretty surprising this hasn't made it to dirt bikes. Quite the injectors they have.
Good for you. Because you were way off with your post.


gsxr6 wrote: 150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling galore! Hence why turbo four strokes with di can get away with 87 octane.

To be honest, I got a pretty good laugh out if it full well knowing the current DI Etec actually runs less line pressure than their old SDI setup as well which was less than a garden hose too.
rrjr
Posts
1133
Joined
11/1/2012
Location
CA US
3/20/2017 1:10pm
gsxr6 wrote:
After doing a bit of research on e tec injectors it's actually pretty surprising this hasn't made it to dirt bikes. Quite the injectors they have.
Skidaddle wrote:
Good for you. Because you were way off with your post. [I] gsxr6 wrote: 150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to...
Good for you. Because you were way off with your post.


gsxr6 wrote: 150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling galore! Hence why turbo four strokes with di can get away with 87 octane.

To be honest, I got a pretty good laugh out if it full well knowing the current DI Etec actually runs less line pressure than their old SDI setup as well which was less than a garden hose too.
Hey Skidaddle. You could learn a lot from gsxr6. Humility is a great thing. Cool
Skidaddle
Posts
1707
Joined
7/19/2016
Location
Woodland, CA US
3/20/2017 2:10pm
gsxr6 wrote:
After doing a bit of research on e tec injectors it's actually pretty surprising this hasn't made it to dirt bikes. Quite the injectors they have.
Skidaddle wrote:
Good for you. Because you were way off with your post. [I] gsxr6 wrote: 150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to...
Good for you. Because you were way off with your post.


gsxr6 wrote: 150 psi for direct injection. Lol try over 2000 psi. Has to overcome the cylinder pressure for the fuel to be able to inject. Charge cooling galore! Hence why turbo four strokes with di can get away with 87 octane.

To be honest, I got a pretty good laugh out if it full well knowing the current DI Etec actually runs less line pressure than their old SDI setup as well which was less than a garden hose too.
rrjr wrote:
Hey Skidaddle. You could learn a lot from gsxr6. Humility is a great thing. Cool
I can respect a guy who does some research and posts back that he did.
I admitted I was wrong that the 500 EFI twin came before the EFI RXL triple.
That machine wasnt available here except by special order, but regardless, it did in fact have EFI from the OEM 1 year prior.





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