What exactly is an EFi smoker gonna give us?

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3/16/2017 5:00 AM

Just curious what benefits an efi 2 stroke is going to have.. no bog? Snappier throttle response? More torque? Was looking at getting a 350 but I almost guarantee if these sell well (and they will) there will be an SX model for 2019..

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3/16/2017 5:25 AM

Hope.

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3/16/2017 5:36 AM

$10,000 two strokes........

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3/16/2017 5:36 AM

For the off-road world? It will make the bikes more expensive to purchase and more difficult to maintain.

For the manufacturers I believe the real benefit will be easier to make 2-strokes street legal again.

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3/16/2017 5:43 AM

Bikes that are legal to be sold. I don't think it was something KTM really wanted to do, their hand was forced from external pressure.

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3/16/2017 5:46 AM

shakazulu12 wrote:

Bikes that are legal to be sold. I don't think it was something KTM really wanted to do, their hand was forced from external pressure.

So does Yamaha follow?

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3/16/2017 5:47 AM

Green sticker 2 strokes

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3/16/2017 5:48 AM

The next level of 2 Stroke.......I'll tell you what we won't have, $2,500 4 stroke rebuilds after a mistake

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3/16/2017 6:05 AM

Better throttle response, no bog, no fucking jetting required. You can tune the map to make the engines smooth. 250 2 strokes have wheel spin issues and this could help it out. I would assume it would help with emissions. My only concern is oil in the injectors. Wonder if that will be an issue

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

3/16/2017 6:14 AM

Smoother and more broad power delivery, less low RPM engine bogging. Plus, more options for engine mapping = not having to rely so much on revving the damn thing to the moon to stay within the powerband.

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3/16/2017 6:18 AM

Smoother and more broad power delivery, less low RPM engine bogging. Plus, more options for engine mapping = not having to rely so much on revving the damn thing to the moon to stay within the powerband.

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3/16/2017 6:19 AM

While EFI can electronically provide the precise fuel/air mixture required at virtually any rpm or atmospheric condition, DI can do the same, without any more 'smoker'. In DI (used for years in some outboards and snow mobiles), only raw fuel (no oil) is injected into the combustion area. That injection only occurs after the exhaust port is closed, so no raw fuel goes out the exhaust.
Take a look at DI. Direct Injection.
It's much more promising than just EFI.

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3/16/2017 6:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/16/2017 6:29 AM

BobInIndy wrote:

While EFI can electronically provide the precise fuel/air mixture required at virtually any rpm or atmospheric condition, DI can do the same, without any more 'smoker'. In DI (used for years in some outboards and snow mobiles), only raw fuel (no oil) is injected into the combustion area. That injection only occurs after the exhaust port is closed, so no raw fuel goes out the exhaust.
Take a look at DI. Direct Injection.
It's much more promising than just EFI.

But DI isnt going to be on 18 KTM XC-W models. The question is directed at what KTM is rolling out.

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3/16/2017 7:30 AM

It's only on the Enduro model and it's not going to give you anything. Certainly not a power increase.
Arctic Fuel 2 stroke injection has been a disaster and all Snocross racers have ditched the EFI sled

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3/16/2017 7:31 AM

I think they had to do it for the European emissions standards, 2020 I believe . If you don't want it then buy a Yamaha. I am waiting for the button on the yz250x

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3/16/2017 7:33 AM

More expensive and complicated bikes. The reason I went back to two strokes was because I was tired of sensors and wiring harnesses you could stretch out a mile. Hopefully Yamaha sticks with the good old carb and I can keep buying those for years to come.

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3/16/2017 8:02 AM

EFI....on an MX 2 stroke platform? Did I miss the memo? Where did you guys hear this?

This all sounds nice , but it also sounds like a nightmare with all the added electrical components involved. I haven't seen or heard of a competitive 2 stroke race bike with EFI.....so I take it , one is in the works?

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

3/16/2017 8:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/16/2017 8:06 AM

Lower emissions, therefore we still get to have brand new 2 strokes at our local dealers.

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3/16/2017 8:08 AM

It's going to be nice for off road riders who routinely change a lot in elevation.

That's why snowmobiles did it to begin with. To compensate for swings in temperature and elevation through out a single ride.

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3/16/2017 8:13 AM

Probably a stupid question, but will the traditional characteristics of a two stroke remain the same? Like the sound, the size and bend of the pipe etc.

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3/16/2017 8:26 AM

Halfast816 wrote:

$10,000 two strokes........

We already have that!. A fair price on a 300 XC in Canada out the door is $10400

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3/16/2017 8:28 AM

Dirt bikes don't compensate for altitude. They run on a map. There is no O2 sensor giving real time feedback to compensate for lean/rich trimming conditions. (Unless KTM plans on adding one)
They have a temp sensor, and an air intake sensor. I put a rheostat on the temp sensor (20ohm to 15,000ohm) for Ice Racing and it changes the fuel map quite a bit. The air intake sensor basically did nothing on a 2012 kx450, that I could find

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3/16/2017 8:29 AM

Everyone complained about EFI when the 4 strokes were getting it too. Look at the the performance increase of the bikes through the years. The KTM 250sxf is a good example. From when it went EFI in 2011 to 2017 it has jumped 8 horespower. Thats a big leap. It didn't gain a single horsepower from when it went from carb to EFI but through these years of development it has jumped 8 freaking horespower. Thats nut. Looking at that just imagine the possibilities for development on a 125, 150 or 250 SX. EFI tuning capabilities are endless. Not to mention that if KTM didn't embrace this technology at some point they were going to be under the gun to push it onto their bikes anyways. Id rather have a EFI 250 stroke then nothing at all if thats the other option. KTM decided to get ahead of the game years ago which was a smart move. If they're implying its most likely pretty refined since they've been playing with it since 2011 or so. That being said, i understand why people are hesitant. A lot of us have EFI 4 stroke horror stories, for me it was a couple of EFI crf's that pissed me off so much with weird starting problems and flashing codes that i sold them both and bought a 03 KX125. I know that ill buy the first TC250 EFI that comes to my area but just in case im always bring my 14 TC250 as a back up bike. laughing

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3/16/2017 8:37 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

EFI....on an MX 2 stroke platform? Did I miss the memo? Where did you guys hear this?

This all sounds nice , but it also sounds like a nightmare with all the added electrical components involved. I haven't seen or heard of a competitive 2 stroke race bike with EFI.....so I take it , one is in the works?

http://www.vitalmx.com/news/press-release/KTM-Announces-Groundbreaking-Two-Stroke-Fuel-Injection-Machines,20288

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3/16/2017 8:43 AM

braaap707 wrote:

Everyone complained about EFI when the 4 strokes were getting it too. Look at the the performance increase of the bikes through the years. The KTM 250sxf is a good example. From when it went EFI in 2011 to 2017 it has jumped 8 horespower. Thats a big leap. It didn't gain a single horsepower from when it went from carb to EFI but through these years of development it has jumped 8 freaking horespower. Thats nut. Looking at that just imagine the possibilities for development on a 125, 150 or 250 SX. EFI tuning capabilities are endless. Not to mention that if KTM didn't embrace this technology at some point they were going to be under the gun to push it onto their bikes anyways. Id rather have a EFI 250 stroke then nothing at all if thats the other option. KTM decided to get ahead of the game years ago which was a smart move. If they're implying its most likely pretty refined since they've been playing with it since 2011 or so. That being said, i understand why people are hesitant. A lot of us have EFI 4 stroke horror stories, for me it was a couple of EFI crf's that pissed me off so much with weird starting problems and flashing codes that i sold them both and bought a 03 KX125. I know that ill buy the first TC250 EFI that comes to my area but just in case im always bring my 14 TC250 as a back up bike. laughing

They can make it jump another 10hp back on a Carb if they want to. Has nothing to do with fuel delivery.

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3/16/2017 8:45 AM

jeffro503 wrote:

EFI....on an MX 2 stroke platform? Did I miss the memo? Where did you guys hear this?

This all sounds nice , but it also sounds like a nightmare with all the added electrical components involved. I haven't seen or heard of a competitive 2 stroke race bike with EFI.....so I take it , one is in the works?

Aha! Thanks David! I did miss that.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

3/16/2017 8:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/16/2017 8:48 AM

Based on the release notes I found here.. NO need to pre-mix fuel and even better fuel economy!!!! win win my guess is even longer wear on a top end maybe too?

http://motocrossactionmag.com/features/rumors-true-ktm-announces-two-stroke-fuel-injection-models

It has been no secret that KTM’s Research and Development department in Mattighofen, Austria, has been developing this technology, which offers considerable benefits over carbureted models including drastically reduced fuel consumption while also no-longer having the need to pre-mix fuel or alter the machine’s jetting. Not only that, the new two-stroke TPI models offer a completely new experience in terms of power delivery and rideability, which once again demonstrates KTM’s commitment to its offroad roots, continuing on from the all-new generation of Enduro machines released last year. As market leaders in this segment, KTM believes the new 2-stroke fuel injection technology, known as TPI (Transfer Port Injection), is revolutionary. More information will be available during the international media launch, which begins on May 15, 2017.

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3/16/2017 8:46 AM

Arctic cat has had efi twostrokes sense the mid 90s. I think like 96 or 97. I have a 05 Arctic cat sled with efi on it and it always starts first or second pull and verry rarely fouls plugs and you don't have to worry about it not being jetted right. I will say that the efi on the twostroke will add a little weight but I think in the long run it will be better. Also Arctic cat motors were made by Suzuki then and up until just a few years ago so Suzuki has the technology. They did however offer carb or efi option. Maybe Ktm will do the same and have about a $500 price difference.

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3/16/2017 8:47 AM

518Buck-Nasty wrote:

Arctic cat has had efi twostrokes sense the mid 90s. I think like 96 or 97. I have a 05 Arctic cat sled with efi on it and it always starts first or second pull and verry rarely fouls plugs and you don't have to worry about it not being jetted right. I will say that the efi on the twostroke will add a little weight but I think in the long run it will be better. Also Arctic cat motors were made by Suzuki then and up until just a few years ago so Suzuki has the technology. They did however offer carb or efi option. Maybe Ktm will do the same and have about a $500 price difference.

Polaris since '89 also.

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3/16/2017 8:56 AM

1stSSPZ wrote:

For the off-road world? It will make the bikes more expensive to purchase and more difficult to maintain.

For the manufacturers I believe the real benefit will be easier to make 2-strokes street legal again.

Exactly how is there more to maintain when other industries have zero to maintain?
There was nothing to maintain 25+ years ago.

I've never once even had to replace an injector, or anything. Ever.

Jeffro, exactly what added electronics? You realize other than a fuel pump and inectors there is basically nothing since current bikes have a digital CDI so you need a small circuitboard and a small ECU.

Man this industry needs to go outside and get off the video games and experience other things in life and see whats out there. Smh.

Here is the best part......how dumb can people be when they say oil is an issue.
It's been 30 years. ..no problems. Again, smh at how far behind the times moto is.


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