What does a factory bike cost?

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9/20/2018 2:52 PM

RandyS wrote:

I was looking at the mud pictures and wondering what it would cost if the factories just threw those bikes away and built an ...more

I dont think you were trolling, but you sure got some people fired up. I have the range between $0 and $100,000,000 so far. cool Good luck interpreting things.

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9/20/2018 4:02 PM

well here's a quick few parts and a view of my Makino 3 machine tool cell system, with a 20 pallet robot system.
The first 2 machine in the cell are 4 axis Horizontal machine tools and the last one in the cell is a 5 axis vertical machine tool. All the machine in the cell can hold over 300 tools.. Now to the parts, I just put in motorcycle parts accept for two of the parts, one is a mountain bike crown, and the other is a throttle body for a Jet plane. My company does allot of work for the medical industry, military, government, nuclear, semiconductor, energy, racing. Doing work for the motorcycle industry is a small part of my business but its also my love, I been racing since I was 6. In the middle of the parts picture are true HRC pegs, the one in the picture that is 1/2 done that is a bit bigger than the Factory HRC design. I could go into it more, but lets just say the HRC parts are the ferrari of parts. I think more people would understand that, I think?

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9/20/2018 4:07 PM

matt.3150 wrote:

well here's a quick few parts and a view of my Makino 3 machine tool cell system, with a 20 pallet robot system.
The first 2 ...more

Those red clamps are drool worthy!!!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

9/20/2018 6:07 PM

matt.3150 wrote:

well here's a quick few parts and a view of my Makino 3 machine tool cell system, with a 20 pallet robot system.
The first 2 ...more

Show us more! That stuff is incredibly cool to see/learn about. Video like the nihilo link posted above is so fascinating to me its unreal!

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9/20/2018 6:31 PM

Awesome stuff

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9/20/2018 9:41 PM

Thanks all you guys, that are interested and saying nice things. When I find a good job that is interesting I will put a video . Part of the problem for me is that most of the companies I make parts for , I sign No disclosure agreements and some others are classified. So I can’t put them up or show them. But if I find something that is cool and If I can put it up I will as soon as possible

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9/20/2018 9:52 PM

matt.3150 wrote:

Thanks all you guys, that are interested and saying nice things. When I find a good job that is interesting I will put a video ...more

Matt - Are you working for John & Jeff ? It looks familiar I think I've been in that facility.

Are those red clamps for sale ?

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

9/21/2018 10:36 AM

MR. X wrote:

I'd sure like to watch an 8 hour set up on a CNC mill.

matt.3150 wrote:

About the 8 hour set up on a CNC mill, I don’t know if your being sarcastic or you really want to see the set up. Set up take ...more

Helda wrote:

I would would like to see it also! Do you do the first one out of billet alloy or something then measure it all up then if ...more

Do you not use Vericut??

Seems like an awful long time for something as simple as a footrest.


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9/21/2018 12:38 PM

Kawasaki-rider wrote:

Mannen. Skärp dig och sluta drömma wassat

Please,get me a COMPLETE ti-bolt kit for my 2001 cr 125, I already bought almost a ...more

Rs444 wrote:

Grattis du har gjort en sjukt dålig affär och borde köpt från grossist istället ^^. Tips nästa gång, åk till flera olika ...more

langhammx wrote:

Lol
You can’t be serious.. you posted a link for pan head bolts that do not belong on a dirt bike. Feel free to post a link ...more

Var iof bara ett exempel men hey, vill du fortsätta göra dåliga affärer så gör det ?

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9/21/2018 2:23 PM

Rs444 I'm sorry that everyone think your a dumb ass, but your just going to keep going aren't you. To say that I only put one picture of a part up is also wrong. look at the picture there are quite a few parts there. I just put a few up to show you some of the stuff I make for the MC industry. Also the machine tools that I have are some of the best made on top of that. The Titanium screws you show in your picture aren't for the MX industry. There aren't billet screws made on a CNC lathe or CNC screw machine, there stamped out screws. Your just showing again how clueless you are. Then putting all this writing in swedish, really what are you trying to prove.

Look why don't we do this now, every one that thinks I'm full of shit and think that I really don't know what I'm talking about please tell me on here, by just saying Matt your full of shit!!! And for all of you that thinks RS444 is full of shit, Please respond and say RS444 Swedish Guy your full of shit.

Thanks everyone

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9/21/2018 3:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/21/2018 3:35 PM

matt.3150 wrote:

Rs444 I'm sorry that everyone think your a dumb ass, but your just going to keep going aren't you. To say that I only put one ...more

I never ever said these was for mx bikes dude. I responded to the other Swedish dude saying (In swedish btw) it was impossible to find cheap titaniums screws in Sweden overall and i showed him 1 example of just that and ofc is more expensive to buy a complete kit than loose ones too. If you were to pay a machine shop to manifacture your bolts from scratch it would cost you but the thing is you dont need to in todays world because just like your corner shop at home cant compete with walmarts prices you cant compete with a huge factory that makes stuff in a far larger quantity and be my guest and deny that if you want but you cant Change facts. You seem to have a big steel industry going on still in america with local shops and industries but i doubt you can compete with chinese titanium or am i wrong?.

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9/21/2018 3:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/21/2018 3:49 PM

matt.3150 wrote:

Rs444 I'm sorry that everyone think your a dumb ass, but your just going to keep going aren't you. To say that I only put one ...more

Rs444 wrote:

I never ever said these was for mx bikes dude. I responded to the other Swedish dude saying (In swedish btw) it was impossible ...more

Please post the Ti bolts that fit my dirt bike that I can buy for the $300 that you stated.
As I have already mentioned, I buy a lot of Ti and have several sources for them.
If you have a better hook up, please share a link for us. Nothing else to say to you on this thread, other than
RS444, you are full of shit !! laughing laughing laughing

BTW- I have a great source of Chinese made Ti bolts. Mainly m6 and m8 bolts, but also have a couple sources in the UK that are comparable with pricing. Shipping is what differs the prices. There are Chinese Ti bolts being sold through American companies and are great quality, but $300 won’t even get close to doing a complete bike.

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9/21/2018 4:11 PM

Full Ti kits are £600+ here, but we have gone down the route of buying what we want , when we need to. Seller was happy to provide certs for the material, and they are nicely made, but we are doing the smaller stuff .

When i worked in WRC , we used Poggipolini for everything, they were very good and i used to get the used ones when cars were stripped, still have a few left that i use for levers and stuff.

I think we used to get a bag of M6x15 500 off, for about £3 each. The ones drilled for lockwire were lovely.

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9/21/2018 4:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/22/2018 1:24 AM

matt.3150 wrote:

Rs444 I'm sorry that everyone think your a dumb ass, but your just going to keep going aren't you. To say that I only put one ...more

Rs444 wrote:

I never ever said these was for mx bikes dude. I responded to the other Swedish dude saying (In swedish btw) it was impossible ...more

langhammx wrote:

Please post the Ti bolts that fit my dirt bike that I can buy for the $300 that you stated.
As I have already mentioned, I ...more

First of all i said around 400, under with the almost 30% taxes you can write away as you to know we can do here in sweden if you have a registred Company. Second you know you can use any bolt right?. That it doesnt have to be purely made for mx?. Third as i said to u you need to go down to professional hardware industrial stores and you know as Weil as me that most smaller shops doesnt work that eau here, its a difference calling or ordering online and to go there, take a cup of coffe and buy many at the same time. Dont play dumb kid, u know as well as i do how it works here (med mängdrabatter o momsavdrag) but if u seriously want to and live close to the southern part of sthlm i can seriously take you myself early next week to the best freaking proffesional hardware store in Town with the nicest ppl working there. I might add also that because i own a company and have an account there i dont pay even close to retail BUT every company puts on x amount of 100% on their prices so i doubt it would be hard to find cheaper elsewhere when the cost of making them even if its expensive to do for a huge factory it aint even close to the retail. The only thing u cant buy there and i didnt take into consideration are axles and swing arm bolt as far as i know.

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9/21/2018 6:53 PM

Rs444 wrote:

I never ever said these was for mx bikes dude. I responded to the other Swedish dude saying (In swedish btw) it was impossible ...more

langhammx wrote:

Please post the Ti bolts that fit my dirt bike that I can buy for the $300 that you stated.
As I have already mentioned, I ...more

Rs444 wrote:

First of all i said around 400, under with the almost 30% taxes you can write away as you to know we can do here in sweden if ...more

I give up....

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9/21/2018 11:48 PM

RichieW13 wrote:

If a race team spends $1,000 for an axle, will they re-use that axle on their bikes the following season (assuming the axle ...more

afaik factory teams no....

i saw a large tool box full of ti bolts from someone that worked in the gp scene for years and he said they just scrap everything....

but this was years back so i dont know now..

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9/22/2018 1:21 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/22/2018 1:23 AM

langhammx wrote:

Please post the Ti bolts that fit my dirt bike that I can buy for the $300 that you stated.
As I have already mentioned, I ...more

Rs444 wrote:

First of all i said around 400, under with the almost 30% taxes you can write away as you to know we can do here in sweden if ...more

langhammx wrote:

I give up....

You r joking right?. I even offered to take you to the Place where i got those prices for and now after all your bs about me being wrong and u wanting me to show you u back down egen i offered to show you ?.

And for u other guys, i dont know how it works in different countries but here if you file to have A-tax like you need to if you wanna have your own company you can write off 25% taxes off on each buy you make through your company and having a standing account in certain professional stores will get you a discount in these stores too and i recon its the same in America as well!?.

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9/22/2018 4:28 AM

matt.3150 :

I'm surprised by how little (to me) the cost of the bar stock / ingot / whatever you would call it for the Pegs is. $100/$150.

What grade Ti is being used, at those prices?

This is not an argument from me, just a surprise.

I've made Bicycle and Motorcycle frames for decades now, and when it comes to materials, especially butted Ti (or other ''exotic"materials) tubes, you can face pretty fearful costs. Though, I'm always surprised by price differences - some tubing can be quite affordable, whilst another type, with bugger all difference in sizing / butting (of the same material) can leave me and others, gasping in shock. It's just the way it is.

Of course, volume of purchase / supply can have a big influence on pricing. Many years ago, when I made far more frames, I had to special order a particular 6061 -T6 rectangular tubing I wanted, in a quantity that has finally run down. It cost me quite a lot, but brought the individual sections used per swingarm, to an affordable level.

Thank you for weighing in here, with your real knowledge. I am but a 'handle turner' with regards to machining, but luckily I have a bloke in my suburb who will do some CNC bits for 'mates rates' for me. I think it's because it gives him something a bit different, from his big jobs. And, I'm always available at short notice to do chassis fab and welding for him with his cars. Give and take, as they say.

As for my own Motorcycle(s), I do fit a Ti bolt to them........ I've a small pack of button head and countersunk Ti bolts, that I use for the tank strap retainer.......... That's as exotic / 'bling' as I get.
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9/22/2018 4:34 AM

Bearuno wrote: matt.3150 :

I'm surprised by how little (to me) the cost of the bar stock / ingot / whatever you would call it for the Pegs ...more

Solid stock vs tubing. We used to get bars of 316Lss that came from the mill shaped like a tear drop to cut down on outside machine times ,I can't imagine what the cost was for such a speciality order.

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9/22/2018 8:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/22/2018 8:18 AM

The thing i find with stuff like this is that designers model stuff up with no concept of what it costs to make. As a result you get bits that you have to 5 axis with a ridiculously fine stepover, that takes ages, that a bit of though could have done with a ball nose in a couple of passes.

We had some lower wishbone mounts sent out for quote, that came back at over £2k each, and a second quote for £495 using an alternative method that could be turned and milled without needing 5 axis.

I have seen some footrests done on a wire eroder, which were nice, the shape lends itself to it quite well.

Be interesting to see who is the first to 3D print some.

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9/22/2018 8:42 AM

philG wrote:

The thing i find with stuff like this is that designers model stuff up with no concept of what it costs to make. As a result ...more

Things like your example of 'designers' over complicating things / the means of production, are behind old, practical, 'analogue' blokes like me still getting to travel the World in their retirement.

One of the companies I've done work for for a few decades now, keep me, and a few other blokes, under loose contract to reign in their "bright young things", just that little bit, it seems.

Mind you, when you get a " bright young thing" that is grounded in practicality, and has actual craft skills, it's an awesome thing to see. I've met some bloody impressive 'doers' among the many Mouse pushers.

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9/22/2018 9:16 AM

philG wrote:

The thing i find with stuff like this is that designers model stuff up with no concept of what it costs to make. As a result ...more

Bearuno wrote:

Things like your example of 'designers' over complicating things / the means of production, are behind old, practical, ...more

I am the same, always been invited to design meetings because as the quality guy, i have to sign off on it. Too many of the new breed of 'Mouse Jockeys' have no concept of GD&T , and make spectacularly exotic stuff and then wonder why they dont fit together.

I would love to see the drawing for those footrests.

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9/22/2018 9:46 AM

Back in 2011. The only Factory Bike I know that ever had a pricetag. ;-)

Photo

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9/22/2018 8:10 PM

Rs444 wrote:

First of all i said around 400, under with the almost 30% taxes you can write away as you to know we can do here in sweden if ...more

langhammx wrote:

I give up....

Rs444 wrote:

You r joking right?. I even offered to take you to the Place where i got those prices for and now after all your bs about me ...more

With what little respect is due to you at this point. Just stop. You are making yourself look ridiculous at this stage.

And to the guys who won’t accept the very good answers given by the guys here that know what they are talking about. ML512 and Langham to name a few. Do you want an answer to your question, or do you only want answers that align with your belief? $50k is not getting you anywhere near real cost. These race teams are businesses and if they were to determine a cost of goods they would include all costs incurred. As there is much more to it than raw material costs and labor.

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9/22/2018 8:31 PM

matt.3150 wrote:

Thanks all you guys, that are interested and saying nice things. When I find a good job that is interesting I will put a video ...more

H4L wrote:

Matt - Are you working for John & Jeff ? It looks familiar I think I've been in that facility.

Are those red clamps for ...more

No I own the business I don’t work for anybody but my customers. I don’t know who John or Jeff is! But that’s for asking.

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9/22/2018 8:45 PM

Bearuno wrote: matt.3150 :

I'm surprised by how little (to me) the cost of the bar stock / ingot / whatever you would call it for the Pegs ...more

With regards to the material costs with the titanium, the piece of material used ends up being pretty large, it’s roughly 2”x2.5”x4” and you pay per pound. Titanium varies in price depending on the origin of material, the alloy and the size. Also when I started out machining I turned handles. I still do sometimes your when I’m teaching someone to be a machinist. I always start there. My option of a machinist is someone that can do it all. Make parts manually, milling, turning, grinding, also can do the same on any cnc. You have to be fully rounded. That what a journeymen is! Anyway thanks for being interested.

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9/23/2018 8:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2018 8:26 AM

matt.3150 wrote:

No I own the business I don’t work for anybody but my customers. I don’t know who John or Jeff is! But that’s for asking.

Ok. It's been a few yrs., but looked liked a place I'd been to that I did business with. It was in SJ off the 101 & De La Cruz. Those guys were doing something similiar & invested into a million dollar machine to fabricate parts. They also did powder coating & anodizing.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

9/23/2018 4:11 PM

H4L wrote:

Matt - Are you working for John & Jeff ? It looks familiar I think I've been in that facility.

Are those red clamps for ...more

matt.3150 wrote:

No I own the business I don’t work for anybody but my customers. I don’t know who John or Jeff is! But that’s for asking.

H4L wrote:

Ok. It's been a few yrs., but looked liked a place I'd been to that I did business with. It was in SJ off the 101 & De La ...more

I’m am in San Jose, but not where your talking about. I’m more in South San Jose. I don’t do powered coating or plating, I send that out.

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9/23/2018 4:23 PM

I’m want to say something to everyone here, I am particularly talking about the HRC footpegs, yes you can make a footpegs that looks similar for quite a bit cheaper, but not the way HRC does it. Also when you look at the HRC peg and compare it to those ones that are sold to the public, the HRC one are different, a work of art. Thousands of small cuts with a ball endmills with a very small step over to create special curves and radius’s on the corners.

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