What changed moto more Nac Nac or the Scrub?

Searights
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9/13/2022 6:09pm
Big Lenny wrote:
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or...
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or when me and Huck bet $2,000 on a SX series that I was already points behind with a couple races left?..I'm sure your panties were in a twist behind both of those...Dry
Well, well, well! What do we have here? Pants on fire!WoohooWoohooGrinning

Not surprisedWink
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Kevin852
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9/13/2022 6:12pm
Sandusky26 wrote:
Take trajectory out of the equation and the person who scrubs leaves the jump face at a slower speed than the person who doesn't scrub.
ToolMaker wrote:
I think your understanding of what's happening is a bit off. When you "scrub" the intent is, it allows you to go faster. Everything flying through...
I think your understanding of what's happening is a bit off.
When you "scrub" the intent is, it allows you to go faster.
Everything flying through the air travels in a shape called a parabola. It's just where in the parabola you are that changes. By absorbing the upward momentum, to need
more speed to travel the same horizontal distance.
More speed keeps you in the upper part of the parabola.
So you have 2 things in your favor, you're going faster and traveling less distance. Long story short, a well executed scrub allows you to blow past your competitor that isn't scrubbing.
TM
Sandusky26 wrote:
Some people call it scrubbing speed.
And those people are wrong.

A "scrub" is to scrub height (not speed. read the parabola story above) so you can hit the same jump faster yet not jump as far.

I am a 50 year rider so my scrub is miniimal. However every now and then I will scrub more than I intended and then I will short the jump as the scrub took off more height then i wanted to.

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Big Lenny
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9/13/2022 6:14pm
Big Lenny wrote:
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or...
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or when me and Huck bet $2,000 on a SX series that I was already points behind with a couple races left?..I'm sure your panties were in a twist behind both of those...Dry
Searights wrote:
Well, well, well! What do we have here? Pants on fire!WoohooWoohooGrinning

Not surprisedWink
That's when we could fish and joke around on the board..See how many fish would jump in the boat..You wouldn't know that since you joined 8/26/2022...
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The Shop

Searights
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9/13/2022 6:18pm
So, how many lies did you tell? Can you count that high?Laughing
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Big Lenny
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9/13/2022 6:31pm
Searights wrote:
So, how many lies did you tell? Can you count that high?Laughing
They were "Fish Stories" ask any old head around here about me...Cool
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ToolMaker
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9/13/2022 6:54pm
One is show and the other go.
McG194 wrote:
Why do people insist on showing they don't understand a question? The post was about what changed "Moto" the most, not what makes you faster. I...
Why do people insist on showing they don't understand a question?

The post was about what changed "Moto" the most, not what makes you faster.

I specifically used the term moto because it is a catch all for everything to do with dirt bikes not just racing. What changed moto more, something that created an entire new form of the sport and drew countless eyeballs to the sport or something that saved a second a lap?
Well, you're reading a lot more in to my comment than was intended, and it seems like the comment respects the call the question with complete...
Well, you're reading a lot more in to my comment than was intended, and it seems like the comment respects the call the question with complete neutrality.

And a reasonable reader can comprehend that "moto" means how racers race. It's on the author to more clear if the intent is the question be that confined. The reader is not at fault for the author's lack of clarity.

A problem with your question is that you are conflating the nac nac with MC's transcendent presence and influence, which is broader and deeper than that one trick. And the nac-nac didn't change the nature of racing like MC's other techniques. MC the superstar was what put more eyeballs on the sport. The nac-nac is just a heel clicker without MC.
The reader's digest condensed version,
If you want better answers, ask better questions.
TM
Searights
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9/13/2022 7:41pm
Big Lenny wrote:
They were "Fish Stories" ask any old head around here about me...Cool
I have. They all pretty much hate your ass!LaughingLaughingTongue
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Big Lenny
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9/13/2022 8:11pm
Big Lenny wrote:
They were "Fish Stories" ask any old head around here about me...Cool
Searights wrote:
I have. They all pretty much hate your ass!LaughingLaughingTongue
I don't GAF...Shit they talked about Jesus Christ...Dry
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JustMX
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9/13/2022 8:12pm
Big Lenny wrote:
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or...
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or when me and Huck bet $2,000 on a SX series that I was already points behind with a couple races left?..I'm sure your panties were in a twist behind both of those...Dry

I had no intention of getting into whatever kind of open hand slapfest you and searights have going on.

Read my post again and you may realize I was complementing your weight loss by pointing out that you are not "big" anymore......

Carry on without me please
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Big Lenny
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9/13/2022 8:16pm
Big Lenny wrote:
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or...
I never lie tell me what I lied about liar...Oh let me guess..When I found 2 new open class bikes in the alley covered up or when me and Huck bet $2,000 on a SX series that I was already points behind with a couple races left?..I'm sure your panties were in a twist behind both of those...Dry
JustMX wrote:
I had no intention of getting into whatever kind of open hand slapfest you and searights have going on. Read my post again and you may...

I had no intention of getting into whatever kind of open hand slapfest you and searights have going on.

Read my post again and you may realize I was complementing your weight loss by pointing out that you are not "big" anymore......

Carry on without me please
Oh OK..Yeah you're right I'm "Skinny Lenny" now...Blush
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Sandusky26
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9/14/2022 1:14am
ToolMaker wrote:
So you're saying someone who slows down on the face of a jump is scrubbing the jump? So your definition of "scrubbing" is hitting the brakes...
So you're saying someone who slows down on the face of a jump is scrubbing the jump?
So your definition of "scrubbing" is hitting the brakes on the face of the jump?
Or where and how are you saying they are reducing their speed?
TM
In order to scrub a jump a person has to carry more speed into the jump or else they would land short. The leaning and turning of the handle bars is where the speed is reduced. The whole point of the scrub was too carry more speed into the jump face and scrub off the extra speed to land in the correct spot.

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Sandusky26
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9/14/2022 1:20am
Kevin852 wrote:
And those people are wrong. A "scrub" is to scrub height (not speed. read the parabola story above) so you can hit the same jump faster...
And those people are wrong.

A "scrub" is to scrub height (not speed. read the parabola story above) so you can hit the same jump faster yet not jump as far.

I am a 50 year rider so my scrub is miniimal. However every now and then I will scrub more than I intended and then I will short the jump as the scrub took off more height then i wanted to.

I’m tired of arguing with you guys. You win.
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9/14/2022 2:21am
I didn’t know Stewart teleported to 1986 to teach Brock Glover how to scrub:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1u7cJ4asKM0
McG194 wrote:
If David Bailey didn't know what the hell he was looking at when he first saw Bubba scrub at Budds it's good enough for me to...
If David Bailey didn't know what the hell he was looking at when he first saw Bubba scrub at Budds it's good enough for me to say James invented it.
Stewart clearly did it harder than anyone up to that time. There is no question of that.

But, Glover is also scrubbing, to stay low and position for the next turn or obstacle, regardless of how small it is or what it wasn’t called.

I think it is fair to say that Stewart was the absolute best at it though.
McG194
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9/14/2022 4:50am
One is show and the other go.
McG194 wrote:
Why do people insist on showing they don't understand a question? The post was about what changed "Moto" the most, not what makes you faster. I...
Why do people insist on showing they don't understand a question?

The post was about what changed "Moto" the most, not what makes you faster.

I specifically used the term moto because it is a catch all for everything to do with dirt bikes not just racing. What changed moto more, something that created an entire new form of the sport and drew countless eyeballs to the sport or something that saved a second a lap?
JustMX wrote:
There are a lot of us that really wished they had called "freestyle motocross" something else so that when people found out that we raced "motocross"...
There are a lot of us that really wished they had called "freestyle motocross" something else so that when people found out that we raced "motocross" the next question wouldn't have been about what tricks we could do.

So, no, not everybody thinks fmx is "moto" anymore than figure skating is "freestyle hockey"

Now go ahead and scold me because I didn't understand the question, which you apparently posted just so you could talk to people like they are stupid just because you posted a question without much merit.

You can do better.
100% agree that I hate people asking me if I can backflip because I have a dirtbike.

As far as me posting just so I could talk down to people, couldn't be further from the truth. I apologize if you feel attacked, it was not my intention. I just correct people to keep the discussion on topic. I stated numerous times that I wasn't discussing racing. It could be agued that without Jeremy throwing the bike around the scrub would never been attempted but it's foolish to suggest that the scrub did not have a bigger effect on motocross racing.
McG194
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9/14/2022 5:00am
As far as the argument about it slowing down to go faster I have my own technique of slowing down to go faster. It's called the roll roost method and it saves way more time than crashing my brains out. lol
9/14/2022 5:09am
McG194 wrote:
100% agree that I hate people asking me if I can backflip because I have a dirtbike. As far as me posting just so I could...
100% agree that I hate people asking me if I can backflip because I have a dirtbike.

As far as me posting just so I could talk down to people, couldn't be further from the truth. I apologize if you feel attacked, it was not my intention. I just correct people to keep the discussion on topic. I stated numerous times that I wasn't discussing racing. It could be agued that without Jeremy throwing the bike around the scrub would never been attempted but it's foolish to suggest that the scrub did not have a bigger effect on motocross racing.
So can you do a backflip or not?
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McG194
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9/14/2022 5:10am
I've done quite a few. None on purpose.

The extent of my freestyle was my patented "Sticker Kicker" back in the day. I started trying Nac Nacs after MC busted them out but the closest I could come was kicking my back fender, hence Sticker Kicker.
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NotCore
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9/14/2022 5:14am
McG194 wrote:
Was not even an option.
Searights wrote:
I’m aware. It should have been. Silly poll.
McG194 wrote:
What's silly is not understanding a topic. I'm discussing riding style innovations. Ricky's training wasn't that much of a revolution. He just took what Johnny O...
What's silly is not understanding a topic. I'm discussing riding style innovations. Ricky's training wasn't that much of a revolution. He just took what Johnny O was doing in the 80's and went to the next level. It's only considered a revolution because of how loose of programs guys ran in the 90's.
Ok, that comment makes me chime back in.

Ricky didn't invent training.
James didn't invent the scrub.
Jeremy didn't invent the NacNac.


But after one of those guys did what they did, every other racer was forced to fall in line or be irrelevant.

Which one was it, and which one had the greatest impact on moto?

McG194
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9/14/2022 5:31am
Searights wrote:
I’m aware. It should have been. Silly poll.
McG194 wrote:
What's silly is not understanding a topic. I'm discussing riding style innovations. Ricky's training wasn't that much of a revolution. He just took what Johnny O...
What's silly is not understanding a topic. I'm discussing riding style innovations. Ricky's training wasn't that much of a revolution. He just took what Johnny O was doing in the 80's and went to the next level. It's only considered a revolution because of how loose of programs guys ran in the 90's.
NotCore wrote:
Ok, that comment makes me chime back in. Ricky didn't invent training. James didn't invent the scrub. Jeremy didn't invent the NacNac. But after one of...
Ok, that comment makes me chime back in.

Ricky didn't invent training.
James didn't invent the scrub.
Jeremy didn't invent the NacNac.


But after one of those guys did what they did, every other racer was forced to fall in line or be irrelevant.

Which one was it, and which one had the greatest impact on moto?

Biggest impact on moto is still Jeremy.

If we are strictly talking racing the argument is much more complicated. Scrub makes you faster than training off the bike but if you're not in peak condition the guy not scrubbing who is in peak condition passes the scrub master at about 15-20 minutes.
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ToolMaker
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9/14/2022 6:53am
You guys are ignoring an even bigger influence on the sport.
The equipment today off the show room floor is argueably better than what MC did his nac nac on.
TM
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McG194
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9/14/2022 8:00am
ToolMaker wrote:
You guys are ignoring an even bigger influence on the sport. The equipment today off the show room floor is argueably better than what MC did...
You guys are ignoring an even bigger influence on the sport.
The equipment today off the show room floor is argueably better than what MC did his nac nac on.
TM
That's a whole different discussion, the question could be: "What had the bigger effect modern high revving lightweight four strokes or cartridge forks?"

It's still early in the off season, we need to pace ourselves. lol

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JustMX
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9/14/2022 9:50am
McG194 wrote:
Biggest impact on moto is still Jeremy. If we are strictly talking racing the argument is much more complicated. Scrub makes you faster than training off...
Biggest impact on moto is still Jeremy.

If we are strictly talking racing the argument is much more complicated. Scrub makes you faster than training off the bike but if you're not in peak condition the guy not scrubbing who is in peak condition passes the scrub master at about 15-20 minutes.
But using your logic about mcgrath/nac nac having the biggest impact on "moto" (as defined by you), then there is a rider that has had a much bigger influence on moto than even mcgrath.

a man that hasn't been on a race bike in about 45 years.

A man who at one time held the biggest motocross race in American history with a $100k purse as a sideshow to a special ride that he planned.

A man with more broken bones than any other rider in history.

A man that once beat up a bunch of hell angels.

A man that reportedly blew $1,000,000 (in mid 70's $$$) for a party in Vegas before his most famous event.

A man that, even though he failed spectacularly, is to this day a house hold name.

A man that never did a nac nac, or scrubbed, yet
That man had a bigger influence on "moto" as defined by mc194) than any other rider.

That man was of course, evel knievel......
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Searights
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9/14/2022 9:54am
JustMX wrote:
But using your logic about mcgrath/nac nac having the biggest impact on "moto" (as defined by you), then there is a rider that has had a...
But using your logic about mcgrath/nac nac having the biggest impact on "moto" (as defined by you), then there is a rider that has had a much bigger influence on moto than even mcgrath.

a man that hasn't been on a race bike in about 45 years.

A man who at one time held the biggest motocross race in American history with a $100k purse as a sideshow to a special ride that he planned.

A man with more broken bones than any other rider in history.

A man that once beat up a bunch of hell angels.

A man that reportedly blew $1,000,000 (in mid 70's $$$) for a party in Vegas before his most famous event.

A man that, even though he failed spectacularly, is to this day a house hold name.

A man that never did a nac nac, or scrubbed, yet
That man had a bigger influence on "moto" as defined by mc194) than any other rider.

That man was of course, evel knievel......
I just read that envisioning Morgan Freeman as the voice.
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McG194
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9/14/2022 10:23am
McG194 wrote:
Biggest impact on moto is still Jeremy. If we are strictly talking racing the argument is much more complicated. Scrub makes you faster than training off...
Biggest impact on moto is still Jeremy.

If we are strictly talking racing the argument is much more complicated. Scrub makes you faster than training off the bike but if you're not in peak condition the guy not scrubbing who is in peak condition passes the scrub master at about 15-20 minutes.
JustMX wrote:
But using your logic about mcgrath/nac nac having the biggest impact on "moto" (as defined by you), then there is a rider that has had a...
But using your logic about mcgrath/nac nac having the biggest impact on "moto" (as defined by you), then there is a rider that has had a much bigger influence on moto than even mcgrath.

a man that hasn't been on a race bike in about 45 years.

A man who at one time held the biggest motocross race in American history with a $100k purse as a sideshow to a special ride that he planned.

A man with more broken bones than any other rider in history.

A man that once beat up a bunch of hell angels.

A man that reportedly blew $1,000,000 (in mid 70's $$$) for a party in Vegas before his most famous event.

A man that, even though he failed spectacularly, is to this day a house hold name.

A man that never did a nac nac, or scrubbed, yet
That man had a bigger influence on "moto" as defined by mc194) than any other rider.

That man was of course, evel knievel......
When you were in school and took a multi choice test did you write in a letter "F" with a completely different answer than the ones supplied?


As far as "A man who at one time held the biggest motocross race in American history with a $100k purse as a sideshow to a special ride that he planned." in late summer of 1974 I had just turned 7 years old, I lived in Michigan with my family and we drove cross country to Twin Falls Idaho to watch Evel jump the canyon.
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JustMX
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9/14/2022 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/14/2022 8:27pm
McG194 wrote:
When you were in school and took a multi choice test did you write in a letter "F" with a completely different answer than the ones...
When you were in school and took a multi choice test did you write in a letter "F" with a completely different answer than the ones supplied?


As far as "A man who at one time held the biggest motocross race in American history with a $100k purse as a sideshow to a special ride that he planned." in late summer of 1974 I had just turned 7 years old, I lived in Michigan with my family and we drove cross country to Twin Falls Idaho to watch Evel jump the canyon.
That had to have been an awesome experience, and i am not ashamed to admit, i am a bit envious....

Your discussion would die a quick and boring death if it was based solely on the A and B answers it appears you expected.

excuse me for not picking either of answers offered because using your criteria for one over the other, another choice is offered.

....... right there, in idaho, when you were 7 years old, evel planted his moto seed in your developing brain, and your world was never the same, even when mcgrath introduced the nac nac over 15 years later........

I suggest that you consider option "F"

It might be a better choice than "E", none of the above
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LoudLove
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9/14/2022 8:31pm
Maybe the question should read “Who changed moto more, McGrath or Stewart”? MC made SX more mainstream and accessible, while JS opened the sport to new demographics. While MC has the titles, James had mind-boggling speed and a unique racing style (versus the Nac-Nac, which is not a racing technique).

James could have possibly surpassed Jeremy in terms of mainstream success, if not for one red-headed wrench in the works.
ando
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9/14/2022 8:59pm
LoudLove wrote:
Maybe the question should read “Who changed moto more, McGrath or Stewart”? MC made SX more mainstream and accessible, while JS opened the sport to new...
Maybe the question should read “Who changed moto more, McGrath or Stewart”? MC made SX more mainstream and accessible, while JS opened the sport to new demographics. While MC has the titles, James had mind-boggling speed and a unique racing style (versus the Nac-Nac, which is not a racing technique).

James could have possibly surpassed Jeremy in terms of mainstream success, if not for one red-headed wrench in the works.
The careers of JS and RC only intersected for two and a bit seasons. Ricky isn't the reason he didn't win a lot more titles.
PFitzG38
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9/14/2022 9:08pm Edited Date/Time 9/14/2022 9:09pm
Nac nac is for show. A scrub is for dough.

Love me some MC though

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