What Really Happened: RedBud RIP Josh Lichtle

Nerd
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Nerd
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:44pm
http://www.motocross.com/features/what-really-happened-redbud/
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prozach
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prozach 7/4/2011 1:18pm
7/4/2011 1:18pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2011 1:20pm
This is an unfortunate event that sucks for everyone. But rider safety should and always should be the rider's responsibility. The article and your suggestion of shortening motos when it is hot is an overreaction IMO. We can't stop all injuries or deaths in sports or life in general. A professional athlete should be able to handle 35 min of exertion no matter how hot it is. If they can't a new fitness program should be established and they shouldn't race until they are prepared for the task at hand and should be responsible for their own personal fitness and well being. Again I am not downplaying his death, I am just saying that there was probably something else going on and athletes need to be aware of their own physical state and make the correct decisions while on the track.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 7/4/2011 1:19pm
7/4/2011 1:19pm
Good write up. It's strange looking at the pic of him racing after the fact, knowing now he was in his last hours with us. It puts things in perspective and really emphasizes what's important in life. Terrible tragedy.
Tbteam
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Tbteam 7/4/2011 1:25pm
7/4/2011 1:25pm
IMO it wasn't the riding that affected Josh. it was the stopping and attempting to start his bike for a period of time. We all know how it feels to just stop and kick the damn bike after riding for a bit in sweltering heat (well, at least if you live around me, you do). All of the sudden, there is no breeze to cool you, and the amount of energy expended as you kick the bike is pretty significant.

RIP, Josh. This is as sad as it gets.
Mstock
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Mstock 7/4/2011 1:31pm
7/4/2011 1:31pm
That article should be a sticky post on this forum. Very well said. Tragic day for the sport.

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MXant15
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MXant15 7/4/2011 1:32pm
7/4/2011 1:32pm
Great write up and very strong arguments. The fact that an athlete died from heat exhaustion should in fact cause the sanctioning body to address possible alternatives for this issue. With that said, I would like to see gear companies address this issue as well. I understand that reducing materials could jepordize safety, but maybe there is something to be done with the heavier pieces of equipment(e.g. Helmet or boots)?

It's terrible knowing this young man (23) died because he was racing his dirt bike. Not worth it
flarider
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flarider 7/4/2011 1:37pm
7/4/2011 1:37pm
Good article, Steve

Other racing sports can and/or do make event adjustments based on conditions.
Why not either shorten a race or require a rider to stop and take on water or be doused with water to cool them down some.
This goes back to my long time suggestion of requiring some form of pit-stop. Do like was used in the XGames supermoto a couple years ago where the rider had to dismount and a new rear tire installed. This not only allows a rider to drink some water, but can also have water poured over them and then take off again. This is also good for sponsors, because this will allow cameras to zoom in on the bike, rider and logos, giving greater exposure. The only reason for the dismount and wheel change is so there is a some measure of time, not a stop and go.
race
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race 7/4/2011 1:48pm
7/4/2011 1:48pm
Has a fatal heatstroke happened before in MX?
SlowOldGuy 7/4/2011 1:49pm
7/4/2011 1:49pm
We are very lucky that someone didn't suffer a similar fate at Loretta's last year. Not sure what the numbers were, but they cancelled all other sports because of the heat. I saw several in the impound area suffering from heat exhaustion. I saw a couple kids who were having trouble making a sentence right after an afternoon moto on Wednesday.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 7/4/2011 1:52pm
7/4/2011 1:52pm
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe condition.
reded
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reded 7/4/2011 1:52pm
7/4/2011 1:52pm
I've always wondered why there isn't more vented gear available or why racers stopped slitting their jerseys like they did back in the mid 90's. Every little bit of air flowing across wet skin on a hot day makes a lot of difference in comfort and health factors.
calimxer91
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calimxer91 7/4/2011 1:55pm
7/4/2011 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 8/11/2011 6:12pm
mxknowitall wrote:
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe...
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe condition.
.
JB 19
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JB 19 7/4/2011 1:56pm
7/4/2011 1:56pm
This is extremely unfortunate, but there are a couple things I have been wondering about. Did he possibly have a concussion from the crash that intensified the heat stroke? And how far into the moto was he? Did he finish the entire moto? I'm curious how long he was actually "in the heat."



Its terrible that a family had to lose a guy like Josh Lichtle, but I think we need to try to learn as much specific info about what happened as possible to be better prepared in the future.
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MXD 7/4/2011 1:57pm
7/4/2011 1:57pm
mxknowitall wrote:
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe...
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe condition.
I'm certainly no doctor but from what I've been told, when you begin to suffer the onset of heat stroke, you just think you are over heating. Then as the symptoms get more severe you start to lose grip on reality. He may not have even realized what was happening. When someone is in that state of mind they can't be held responsible. He was probably delirious.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 7/4/2011 1:57pm
7/4/2011 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2011 1:57pm
mxknowitall wrote:
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe...
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe condition.
calimxer91 wrote:
.
He is from MI and has probably put in more laps on that track than 99% of the other guys.
flarider
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flarider 7/4/2011 1:58pm
7/4/2011 1:58pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2011 1:59pm
mxknowitall wrote:
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe...
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe condition.
A symptom of heat stroke is poor judgement and decision making, so expecting someone suffering from heat exhaustion or heat stroke to be able to make clear, smart decisions is not practical
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 7/4/2011 2:02pm
7/4/2011 2:02pm
This is a common issue in distance running, and I know of times when races have been shortened, but it's really rare, and as uncomfortable as I'm sure it was Saturday, the pure numbers wouldn't normally imply extreme danger. No doubt the fact that he had to start the bike - with apparently considerable difficulty - had as much to do with this as anything. Rider awareness is the most important thing, and a willingness for a rider to stop when he's getting in trouble. But unless it's lethally extreme, I can't see shortening the races.
calimxer91
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calimxer91 7/4/2011 2:02pm
7/4/2011 2:02pm
mxknowitall wrote:
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe...
It's unfortunate what happened to him, but in my opinion it is his job to pull off if he feels that he is in an unsafe condition.
calimxer91 wrote:
.
mxknowitall wrote:
He is from MI and has probably put in more laps on that track than 99% of the other guys.
Sorry.Did'nt know that.Just ungodly heat that you could'nt train for if you tried.
tcarbo
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tcarbo 7/4/2011 2:02pm
7/4/2011 2:02pm
Does the AMA continue racing through lightning? Well it's time to adjust the program for temps which is more likely is a higher risk factor of an incident than being hit by lightning.

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IceMan446
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IceMan446 7/4/2011 2:03pm
7/4/2011 2:03pm
I know one year at Hangtown it was really bad. More then a few just fell out because of the heat. Don't think anyone died because of it though.
sharkey
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sharkey 7/4/2011 2:04pm
7/4/2011 2:04pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
We are very lucky that someone didn't suffer a similar fate at Loretta's last year. Not sure what the numbers were, but they cancelled all other...
We are very lucky that someone didn't suffer a similar fate at Loretta's last year. Not sure what the numbers were, but they cancelled all other sports because of the heat. I saw several in the impound area suffering from heat exhaustion. I saw a couple kids who were having trouble making a sentence right after an afternoon moto on Wednesday.
i heard ponca last year was really bad also
bd
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bd 7/4/2011 2:11pm
7/4/2011 2:11pm
Before we make drastic changes to our sport, we need to ask how often do people get heat stroke at MX events? The percentage is extremely low. Heat exhaustion happnens more often. You can be hydrated and incredible shape and get hit with heat exhaustion.

Our sport is dangerous. We know the risks when we get on the bikes. I think serious thought and analysis is needed before a knee jerk reaction.
bd
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bd 7/4/2011 2:12pm
7/4/2011 2:12pm
IceMan446 wrote:
I know one year at Hangtown it was really bad. More then a few just fell out because of the heat. Don't think anyone died because...
I know one year at Hangtown it was really bad. More then a few just fell out because of the heat. Don't think anyone died because of it though.
Do not confuse heat exhaustion with heat stroke. If you get heat stroke, you are in serious trouble.
bd
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bd 7/4/2011 2:17pm
7/4/2011 2:17pm
Before politics of our sport and potential of mud slinging that often happens on this board. Let me say: My peaceful thoughts are with Josh Lichtle and his family and friends. RIP!
knowitalloveragainnovice 7/4/2011 2:20pm
7/4/2011 2:20pm
Void Main wrote:
Mandatory electric start on hot days?
Did he have access to cool water or AC?

These guys get to the track at 7 a.m. And possibly was "hot" since practice.

The 30 minute moto is one thing but sitting under an easy up for most of the day can add to the stress.

Pourcel had ice baths and showers between moto's.

Some privateers have warm bottled water.

The promoter needs to add some area to help privateers cool
Down if needed during the 10'hour race day that they paid $ 225 to participate in.
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Slow 7/4/2011 2:25pm
7/4/2011 2:25pm
Thanks for the write up. Josh was always fun to watch race. Thanks for the memory's Josh you will be missed.
tcarbo
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tcarbo 7/4/2011 2:26pm
7/4/2011 2:26pm
bd wrote:
Before we make drastic changes to our sport, we need to ask how often do people get heat stroke at MX events? The percentage is extremely...
Before we make drastic changes to our sport, we need to ask how often do people get heat stroke at MX events? The percentage is extremely low. Heat exhaustion happnens more often. You can be hydrated and incredible shape and get hit with heat exhaustion.

Our sport is dangerous. We know the risks when we get on the bikes. I think serious thought and analysis is needed before a knee jerk reaction.
I dont know about drastic changes but Asterik med pumps a lot of fluids. Something needs to be done.
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GuyB 7/4/2011 2:30pm
7/4/2011 2:30pm
calimxer91 wrote:
.
Here are a few observations...

Josh was local to Michigan. I'd guess he was familiar with the conditions.

With some checking, I think you'd find that MX Sports does have a policy regarding shortening motos if necessary, which includes taking into account the recommendations of the on-site medical staff.

Pro riders still regularly modify their gear when they feel like they need some extra air. A couple recent examples would be watching Kyle Cunningham slitting his under-jersey protector in Denver, and the slits you see in the thigh patches on Ryan Dungey, which I'd guess is also done for freedom of movement.

From my perspective, I think that everyone generally looks to Freestone as being the hot race of the season, and while uncomfortable, this year's edition was fairly mild, thanks to the near-constant strong breezes. At Red Bud, we generally expect the heat to be generated on the track.

This whole thing's tragic, and would be even more tragic if nothing is learned from it. But I don't think anything is accomplished by finger-pointing.

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