What Race Fuel to use? Pump gas no good

Johndeere506
Edited Date/Time 5/12/2017 1:21pm
I was going to get a couple cans of T4 or U4.4 to run in my stock CRF250. I can get it shipped or run local race fuel from a gas pump. But its leaded at the pumps like turbo blue. Can you run leaded in EFI bikes? I would have guessed no but some local shops say its no problem. Ive ridden a couple bike sin the past that felt slightly faster, but were much more crisp and responsive I thought.

Would you mix T4 or 4.4 w rec fuel, or mix rec fuel and turbo blue or torco leaded fuel? Or just run xxxx?

Thanks

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mxb2
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mxb2 5/10/2017 11:26am
5/10/2017 11:26am
Johndeere506 wrote:
I was going to get a couple cans of T4 or U4.4 to run in my stock CRF250. I can get it shipped or run local...
I was going to get a couple cans of T4 or U4.4 to run in my stock CRF250. I can get it shipped or run local race fuel from a gas pump. But its leaded at the pumps like turbo blue. Can you run leaded in EFI bikes? I would have guessed no but some local shops say its no problem. Ive ridden a couple bike sin the past that felt slightly faster, but were much more crisp and responsive I thought.

Would you mix T4 or 4.4 w rec fuel, or mix rec fuel and turbo blue or torco leaded fuel? Or just run xxxx?

Thanks

T4 is really good fuel for stock motors, clean, consistent,
MXER231
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MXER231 5/10/2017 12:48pm
5/10/2017 12:48pm
Yes, you can run leaded fuel in EFI bikes. I currently have 2 EFI bikes that run on Sunoco 110 and my dad also has a few.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 5/10/2017 12:51pm
5/10/2017 12:51pm
I've been running T4 in my KTM 250f for 2 seasons now, great bang for the buck.
Bruneval
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Bruneval 5/10/2017 1:04pm
5/10/2017 1:04pm
Really interested in this too. I have couple of tuned 250F's, one of them very highly tuned, but the quality of the pump gas in the UK isn't what it used to be. More and more ethanol is creeping in, even though you can buy high octane straight from the pump. Race gas options are limited, and ridiculously expensive.

Do any of you run the leaded Sunoco 115?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/race-fuel/sunoco-supreme-leade…

I can get it in the UK for the mere price of £142.80 including tax and delivery, which is $184.85, for a 25 litre drum.

The Shop

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Harry Backmon 5/10/2017 1:08pm
5/10/2017 1:08pm
I'm happy you brought this up. This has never been discussed before here at Vital. We need to hash this out.
tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 5/10/2017 1:38pm
5/10/2017 1:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2017 1:38pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I'm happy you brought this up. This has never been discussed before here at Vital. We need to hash this out.
Hahaha

I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor discounts. The idea of race fuel doesn't seem even remotely doable (or reasonable). I honestly feel like any person who has done well enough in life to afford race fuel must have basic financial discipline. And if that's the case, how is race fuel something you can wrap your head around? I want to be sold on the need/worthiness, but I just can't. My stock 17 CRF450 pulls holeshots in the local pro class fairly regularly so outside of true privateer life (not local pros racing their local national) and national level 250f kids, I just don't see how anyone can justify race fuel.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 5/10/2017 1:46pm
5/10/2017 1:46pm
T4 works really, really well and is very compatible with most stock maps.

I have played with U4 mixed 1:1 with pump premium and it makes plenty of power and has a lot of oxygen.

Note: I -always- find Ethanol free premium...even if it means I have to pay a little extra for "Ethanol Free 93".
bvm111
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bvm111 5/10/2017 3:51pm
5/10/2017 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2017 3:52pm
Ive been running Sunoco GTX 260 in my 2016 KX450 and it seems to run well. It is 98 octane R+M/2 unleaded with no ethanol or MTBE added and the numbers are close to T4. We don't have ethanol free fuel from the pump here in Vegas so this is my only option since the local VP guy said he doesn't carry T4. They are going to bring in the Sunoco Optima which is 94/95 octane and will give it a shot when they get it in... oh and the GTX260 is 35 bucks for a 5 gallon can so it doesn't sting as bad as the C12 i run in my KX250!
mwssquad827
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mwssquad827 5/10/2017 3:55pm
5/10/2017 3:55pm
Sunoco 110 made my 15 kawi 450 pop, start shitty and ran like poo!! Asked dealer and he said that it shouldn't have but it did. Switched back to ethanol free 91 and it ran like normal next ride.
Ps-- The only reason I got the 110 was that's the only non ethanol free gas I could find in Tucson while I was visiting. It ran awesome in Tucson.. weird right
rubarb
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rubarb 5/10/2017 3:57pm
5/10/2017 3:57pm
According to motodrive (circa 2002) Avgas will put you at the front of the pack
Indymxer
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Indymxer 5/10/2017 4:12pm
5/10/2017 4:12pm
So is ethanol-free 91 better than ethanol- blended 93 for a two stroke? It's all I can find here so far..
Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 5/10/2017 4:43pm
5/10/2017 4:43pm
I run cam2(sunoco110) from speedway all the time.
nascarnate326 5/10/2017 5:31pm
5/10/2017 5:31pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I'm happy you brought this up. This has never been discussed before here at Vital. We need to hash this out.
tcallahan707 wrote:
Hahaha I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor...
Hahaha

I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor discounts. The idea of race fuel doesn't seem even remotely doable (or reasonable). I honestly feel like any person who has done well enough in life to afford race fuel must have basic financial discipline. And if that's the case, how is race fuel something you can wrap your head around? I want to be sold on the need/worthiness, but I just can't. My stock 17 CRF450 pulls holeshots in the local pro class fairly regularly so outside of true privateer life (not local pros racing their local national) and national level 250f kids, I just don't see how anyone can justify race fuel.
As a CRF250 rider who uses U4.4 Ill explain it like this: I am riding an incredibly under powered bike. A stock yamaha or kawasaki is noticeably faster let alone a stock ktm or husky. riding a CRF250 is a disadvantage period. If some fuel helps level the playing field so that my poor choice of dirt bike is slightly more competitive...ill run it.

As for the cost, my house payment is $500 and I don't have a car payment. I splurge on race gas. $70 a month in fuel is nothing compared to what some people spend on smokes, alcohol, cable TV, or who knows what else.
mxb2
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mxb2 5/10/2017 5:42pm
5/10/2017 5:42pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I'm happy you brought this up. This has never been discussed before here at Vital. We need to hash this out.
tcallahan707 wrote:
Hahaha I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor...
Hahaha

I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor discounts. The idea of race fuel doesn't seem even remotely doable (or reasonable). I honestly feel like any person who has done well enough in life to afford race fuel must have basic financial discipline. And if that's the case, how is race fuel something you can wrap your head around? I want to be sold on the need/worthiness, but I just can't. My stock 17 CRF450 pulls holeshots in the local pro class fairly regularly so outside of true privateer life (not local pros racing their local national) and national level 250f kids, I just don't see how anyone can justify race fuel.
nascarnate326 wrote:
As a CRF250 rider who uses U4.4 Ill explain it like this: I am riding an incredibly under powered bike. A stock yamaha or kawasaki is...
As a CRF250 rider who uses U4.4 Ill explain it like this: I am riding an incredibly under powered bike. A stock yamaha or kawasaki is noticeably faster let alone a stock ktm or husky. riding a CRF250 is a disadvantage period. If some fuel helps level the playing field so that my poor choice of dirt bike is slightly more competitive...ill run it.

As for the cost, my house payment is $500 and I don't have a car payment. I splurge on race gas. $70 a month in fuel is nothing compared to what some people spend on smokes, alcohol, cable TV, or who knows what else.
X2, beer, cigs,gambling eating out, are way more $$. Than $100-200 in fuel a month
tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 5/10/2017 5:59pm
5/10/2017 5:59pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I'm happy you brought this up. This has never been discussed before here at Vital. We need to hash this out.
tcallahan707 wrote:
Hahaha I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor...
Hahaha

I am curious how you guys justify/afford race fuel full time. I feel like I can comfortably afford to go racing with some great sponsor discounts. The idea of race fuel doesn't seem even remotely doable (or reasonable). I honestly feel like any person who has done well enough in life to afford race fuel must have basic financial discipline. And if that's the case, how is race fuel something you can wrap your head around? I want to be sold on the need/worthiness, but I just can't. My stock 17 CRF450 pulls holeshots in the local pro class fairly regularly so outside of true privateer life (not local pros racing their local national) and national level 250f kids, I just don't see how anyone can justify race fuel.
nascarnate326 wrote:
As a CRF250 rider who uses U4.4 Ill explain it like this: I am riding an incredibly under powered bike. A stock yamaha or kawasaki is...
As a CRF250 rider who uses U4.4 Ill explain it like this: I am riding an incredibly under powered bike. A stock yamaha or kawasaki is noticeably faster let alone a stock ktm or husky. riding a CRF250 is a disadvantage period. If some fuel helps level the playing field so that my poor choice of dirt bike is slightly more competitive...ill run it.

As for the cost, my house payment is $500 and I don't have a car payment. I splurge on race gas. $70 a month in fuel is nothing compared to what some people spend on smokes, alcohol, cable TV, or who knows what else.
I could see $70 a month but I feel like it'd be $70 a weekend.
Benihana225
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Benihana225 5/10/2017 6:13pm
5/10/2017 6:13pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I'm happy you brought this up. This has never been discussed before here at Vital. We need to hash this out.
Hahahahhaha

U4.4 is a leaded fuel. I've ran VP 110 Sonoco 110 and u4.4. all leaded fuels fully built crf250r and the bike runs great. If your not local A and running a stock bike just run pump or 93 mixed w 110
resetjet
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resetjet 5/10/2017 6:14pm
5/10/2017 6:14pm
Yes also. Ethanol has less energy per gallon and therefore does not produce as much work per gallon. The little
Bit of octane rating you lose isnt much you gain energy. Most bikes with stock engines can run on 91 or 93. 89 10% ethanol wont work in most. You only need higher octane if you have detonation. Now race fuel is another conversation. Lead is the cheap way to increase octane. High octane lead free fuels are better if you ask me. Avgas is really not a great fuel. Its formulated to last forever, not absorb water, and has a crazy amount of lead. It will run fine but is no race fuel. I use 93 10% pump gas. Unless you have a tuned engine i cant see why not.
usafwx
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usafwx 5/10/2017 6:15pm
5/10/2017 6:15pm
I've always ran 93 pump gas on my bikes from KTM to Yamaha, 2 and 4 stroke, never an issue, engines opened up looked fine. Just like all the people here that swear they need A kit suspension, most don't need race gas and are throwing money away. Let the debate begin...

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mxb2
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mxb2 5/10/2017 6:26pm
5/10/2017 6:26pm
usafwx wrote:
I've always ran 93 pump gas on my bikes from KTM to Yamaha, 2 and 4 stroke, never an issue, engines opened up looked fine. Just...
I've always ran 93 pump gas on my bikes from KTM to Yamaha, 2 and 4 stroke, never an issue, engines opened up looked fine. Just like all the people here that swear they need A kit suspension, most don't need race gas and are throwing money away. Let the debate begin...
Needs and wants 2 different things,. If they choose to buy a A kit or race fuel, who cares.Like buying a Timex and Rolex watch, both serve the same purpose. Some people choose to spend $$ different. Going out to dinner is way more money than a trip to the grocery store. Some work hard, and play harder.
usafwx
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usafwx 5/10/2017 6:33pm
5/10/2017 6:33pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2017 6:36pm
mxb2 wrote:
Needs and wants 2 different things,. If they choose to buy a A kit or race fuel, who cares.Like buying a Timex and Rolex watch, both...
Needs and wants 2 different things,. If they choose to buy a A kit or race fuel, who cares.Like buying a Timex and Rolex watch, both serve the same purpose. Some people choose to spend $$ different. Going out to dinner is way more money than a trip to the grocery store. Some work hard, and play harder.
Ok...
usafwx
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usafwx 5/10/2017 6:47pm
5/10/2017 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2017 6:54pm
I've never noticed it running that much hotter on ethanol 93 pump stuff, technically yes it does, alcohol leans out mixture and makes it burn hotter (short answer), but by how much?, etc.. You have to remember they are built/developed for the average joe to run 93 pump gas. Is ethanol free/race gas better, of course, but I doubt the average rider with a stock engine would notice or NEED (mxb2) the difference. From a reliability/maintenance stand point I've never had an issue or seen one.
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kzizok 5/10/2017 6:52pm
5/10/2017 6:52pm
usafwx wrote:
I've always ran 93 pump gas on my bikes from KTM to Yamaha, 2 and 4 stroke, never an issue, engines opened up looked fine. Just...
I've always ran 93 pump gas on my bikes from KTM to Yamaha, 2 and 4 stroke, never an issue, engines opened up looked fine. Just like all the people here that swear they need A kit suspension, most don't need race gas and are throwing money away. Let the debate begin...
.......and a whole bunch of other "needed" placebos.
usafwx
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usafwx 5/10/2017 6:55pm
5/10/2017 6:55pm
kzizok wrote:
.......and a whole bunch of other "needed" placebos.
Wink
mxb2
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mxb2 5/10/2017 7:14pm
5/10/2017 7:14pm
usafwx wrote:
I've never noticed it running that much hotter on ethanol 93 pump stuff, technically yes it does, alcohol leans out mixture and makes it burn hotter...
I've never noticed it running that much hotter on ethanol 93 pump stuff, technically yes it does, alcohol leans out mixture and makes it burn hotter (short answer), but by how much?, etc.. You have to remember they are built/developed for the average joe to run 93 pump gas. Is ethanol free/race gas better, of course, but I doubt the average rider with a stock engine would notice or NEED (mxb2) the difference. From a reliability/maintenance stand point I've never had an issue or seen one.
My bikes are mapped and the vortex is mapped for the pipes and good fuel. Do I need it? Nope, do I want it yep. Race fuel is more consistent and better than pump fuel,,if mapped for the fuel. I guarantee. My bikes run better than a stock bike. Doesn't make me better, but I enjoy building bikes and spending my $$ on a hobby.
aroark247
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aroark247 5/10/2017 8:05pm
5/10/2017 8:05pm
I use whatever my neighbor runs in his car. that shit'll work and it's FREE!!!
1
mxb2
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mxb2 5/10/2017 8:06pm
5/10/2017 8:06pm
aroark247 wrote:
I use whatever my neighbor runs in his car. that shit'll work and it's FREE!!!
Hahaaaa
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Moto_Geek 5/10/2017 8:15pm
5/10/2017 8:15pm
I ran 1/2 pump 93 or 91 and then 1/2 VP 110. Justfill half and half in your portable tank. Cheaper and it runs in the middle on octane. Seem to avoid ping and pop with this mixture. This is at Denver altitude 6000 feet. though. Worked great on all my 4 strokes and 2 strokes.
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Indymxer 5/10/2017 8:17pm
5/10/2017 8:17pm
Acidreamer wrote:
I run cam2(sunoco110) from speedway all the time.
Do all Speedways carry this fuel?

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