Weege, JGR, state of the sport

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11/15/2020 9:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/15/2020 1:32 PM

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
Current project #2: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1 rider/racer resto
1989 KX125 resto
1987 RM250 resto

11/15/2020 11:09 AM

I've posted about this awhile back. I asked for people in the advertising industry to speak about this very thing. It doesn't project a positive outlook for our sport. Motorcycle racing on the professional level is almost completely funded by the advertising dollar.

I see the business model changing to only factory teams from the KTM brands, Honda and Kawasaki. With Procircuit and Yamaha remaining at the current level (as long as Mitch Payton and Bobby Reagan receive enough funding from the OEM). Maybe a couple of teams like Motoconcepts funded by a wealthy entrepreneur that does it out of passion for the sport.

Here's another thought. Does racing really sell bikes to a great extent? Does Honda really need to sponsor motocross and Supercross in the future? Would they sell the same amount of CRF and offroad models with targeted internet advertising? Suzuki seems to think its not worth the expense.

What about Feld SX. MX Sports and MXGP? They're going to absorb the sponsorship dollars as well. Why would a huge company sponsor a team when they could spend the same or less money and become a title sponsor of the Series? Or for that matter why sponsor anything when they can have their advertising sent directly to your cell phone for much less?

Most of the products in motocross don't generate enough revenue to cover the expense of running their own team. A few like Alpinestars or Fox could but why would they?

For instance why would a company like Fox pay for a Team Fox when they can spend far less and still have their products featured on the factory teams? The same applies to Dunlap, Fox, Alpinestars, Thor, etc.

Sponsor funding for privateer teams is going to be absorbed by the factory teams to a greater extent. What support the privateer receives is going to be in the form of free or discounted products with very little actual cash.

I think racing is going to contract into the haves and have not situation. 10 or 12 team riders and then the rest being local pro riders working out of Sprinter vans.

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11/15/2020 11:33 AM

I remember reading an article in RacerX a while back how Butler Brothers/Once BTO/now RM KTM team actually turned a profit every year.

I wish someone would do a podcast with Genova, he seems like a savvy businessman to see if he would share the financial outlook of SmartTop MC Honda.

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11/15/2020 1:17 PM

Racing is entrainment and does a good job getting name brand recognition, all though riders dont get to cash in much. As for selling bikes, just my opinion, if the oems got more involved with riding areas etc, i think they could sustain the sport, more sales etc..

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11/15/2020 1:44 PM

Mitch will tell you, you can’t run a team without something to sell.

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11/15/2020 2:05 PM

I spent 50 years in the automotive industry, the last 25 years with a huge corporation. I can truthfully state that corporations do not want to spend any money at all. Its no longer about producing a good product, serving customers and earning a profit. Its all about producing dividends, increasing stock prices and attracting investors. All I heard for 25 years was "we have to cut the fat", "we have to cut expenses, "we cannot spend any money" and "our responsibility is to the investors".

Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and KTM to a much lesser extent are the same. Racing may not be a "justifiable expenditure" in the future. KTM is much smaller in comparison to the other companies and has a much narrower focused.

Suzuki just celebrated its 100th anniversary by pulling the plug on all racing other than MotoGP. This and the fact that Suzuki Motor Company world wide is profitable just goes to demonstrate my point.

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11/15/2020 2:45 PM

OLDMOTO wrote:

I spent 50 years in the automotive industry, the last 25 years with a huge corporation. I can truthfully state that corporations do not want to spend any money at all. Its no longer about producing a good product, serving customers and earning a profit. Its all about producing dividends, increasing stock prices and attracting investors. All I heard for 25 years was "we have to cut the fat", "we have to cut expenses, "we cannot spend any money" and "our responsibility is to the investors".

Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and KTM to a much lesser extent are the same. Racing may not be a "justifiable expenditure" in the future. KTM is much smaller in comparison to the other companies and has a much narrower focused.

Suzuki just celebrated its 100th anniversary by pulling the plug on all racing other than MotoGP. This and the fact that Suzuki Motor Company world wide is profitable just goes to demonstrate my point.

Read an article on Boeing and its demise as the dominant player in the global aviation market. Huge factor in its fall was it started to produce aircraft for the stock market and not to there core values. New CEO currently looking to get back to core values. Safety, its people, innovation and greatness soundproof product. 737 max is the result of building to the stock market.

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11/15/2020 2:58 PM

Apple is a company that is a prime example of catering to investors and not the consumers, just like Suzuki.

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11/15/2020 3:00 PM

I think Weege made some great points. Maybe with the ktm group of taking up market share there's just not enough room for 7 brands. Bikes have come and gone over the years with the big 4 or 5 remaining steady.

With that said I agree with a poster above me in that I think the best way for manufacturers to invest and ensure a market is to get involved with riding areas and marketing towards new riders and not just racers.

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11/15/2020 3:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/15/2020 3:41 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Apple is a company that is a prime example of catering to investors and not the consumers, just like Suzuki.

Yo got it completely wrong, Apple caters both very well. Job's main focus always was user experience and it still is what rides Apple's world. Same goes with Amazon, see Bezos' customer obsession.

Companies in technology and competitive industries have to focus in the consumer (either as a client or as a product) in order to thrive. User engagement and profitability is their way to please investors. It's not like Comcast, Charter a utility or local transit company.

To what was said above, the old classic automotive companies were so focused on quarterly profits for so long that now the Teslas, the Ubers and the Apples of the world are going to own them.

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11/15/2020 3:41 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Apple is a company that is a prime example of catering to investors and not the consumers, just like Suzuki.

RalphS wrote:

Yo got it completely wrong, Apple caters both very well. Job's main focus always was user experience and it still is what rides Apple's world. Same goes with Amazon, see Bezos' customer obsession.

Companies in technology and competitive industries have to focus in the consumer (either as a client or as a product) in order to thrive. User engagement and profitability is their way to please investors. It's not like Comcast, Charter a utility or local transit company.

To what was said above, the old classic automotive companies were so focused on quarterly profits for so long that now the Teslas, the Ubers and the Apples of the world are going to own them.

If you're a tech fan like myself, why do they not give people the features that they want? Or if they do it takes years and is already a thing of the past.
The competition has been ahead for years now in most aspects!
They are purely an investor driven corporation that wants to see nothing but $$$$.

It's like comparing KTM to Suzuki. KTM gives the consumers what they want and make frequent and requested upgrades/updates to their machines, Suzuki does not.

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11/15/2020 3:42 PM

Why not sell a product to fund racing? Could JGR have done better if they developed parts for all bikes instead of only yamaha and suzuki?

Look at pro circuit. They sell all of these products and it helps fund the racing.

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11/15/2020 4:25 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Apple is a company that is a prime example of catering to investors and not the consumers, just like Suzuki.

RalphS wrote:

Yo got it completely wrong, Apple caters both very well. Job's main focus always was user experience and it still is what rides Apple's world. Same goes with Amazon, see Bezos' customer obsession.

Companies in technology and competitive industries have to focus in the consumer (either as a client or as a product) in order to thrive. User engagement and profitability is their way to please investors. It's not like Comcast, Charter a utility or local transit company.

To what was said above, the old classic automotive companies were so focused on quarterly profits for so long that now the Teslas, the Ubers and the Apples of the world are going to own them.

Cayden Thompson wrote:

If you're a tech fan like myself, why do they not give people the features that they want? Or if they do it takes years and is already a thing of the past.
The competition has been ahead for years now in most aspects!
They are purely an investor driven corporation that wants to see nothing but $$$$.

It's like comparing KTM to Suzuki. KTM gives the consumers what they want and make frequent and requested upgrades/updates to their machines, Suzuki does not.

"They are purely an investor driven corporation that wants to see nothing but $$$$"

If you expect anything different from this, you might as well find your way back to the soviet union.

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11/15/2020 4:31 PM

Markopolo400 wrote:

I remember reading an article in RacerX a while back how Butler Brothers/Once BTO/now RM KTM team actually turned a profit every year.

I wish someone would do a podcast with Genova, he seems like a savvy businessman to see if he would share the financial outlook of SmartTop MC Honda.

He spends money every year. If I was rich I'd do the same thing.

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11/15/2020 5:19 PM

OLDMOTO wrote:

I spent 50 years in the automotive industry, the last 25 years with a huge corporation. I can truthfully state that corporations do not want to spend any money at all. Its no longer about producing a good product, serving customers and earning a profit. Its all about producing dividends, increasing stock prices and attracting investors. All I heard for 25 years was "we have to cut the fat", "we have to cut expenses, "we cannot spend any money" and "our responsibility is to the investors".

Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and KTM to a much lesser extent are the same. Racing may not be a "justifiable expenditure" in the future. KTM is much smaller in comparison to the other companies and has a much narrower focused.

Suzuki just celebrated its 100th anniversary by pulling the plug on all racing other than MotoGP. This and the fact that Suzuki Motor Company world wide is profitable just goes to demonstrate my point.

Richard Tease II wrote:

Read an article on Boeing and its demise as the dominant player in the global aviation market. Huge factor in its fall was it started to produce aircraft for the stock market and not to there core values. New CEO currently looking to get back to core values. Safety, its people, innovation and greatness soundproof product. 737 max is the result of building to the stock market.

Absolutely true, but it doesn't change the corporate thinking. Profit over everything and there's no such thing as enough profit. If you stand up in a corporate meeting and point this out you're not "a team player" and you're "not on board with the program".

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11/15/2020 5:25 PM

The biggest thing about KTM is that it is currently not too big to enable changes customers want, the Japanese brands do NOT make a lot of money out of dirt bikes (esp. the automotive ones). They also have very limited production line runs with longer R&D compared to say KTM (and its sub brands).

I think people need to be a little more grateful that they even continue to sponsor teams i.e. Honda, Kawasaki

With COVID-19 it has put an enormous strain on ALL sports that require funding to stay alive.....lets be grateful we still have what we have.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

11/15/2020 7:16 PM

The Rock Hill BMX complex Where Weege filmed that is 13 miles from our home base

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11/15/2020 7:47 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/15/2020 7:47 PM

I don’t see how a private team makes money In SX MX anyway, unless they have a product to sell.

It’s pretty obvious Honda pays the bills for RacerX, lol

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11/15/2020 7:58 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Apple is a company that is a prime example of catering to investors and not the consumers, just like Suzuki.

RalphS wrote:

Yo got it completely wrong, Apple caters both very well. Job's main focus always was user experience and it still is what rides Apple's world. Same goes with Amazon, see Bezos' customer obsession.

Companies in technology and competitive industries have to focus in the consumer (either as a client or as a product) in order to thrive. User engagement and profitability is their way to please investors. It's not like Comcast, Charter a utility or local transit company.

To what was said above, the old classic automotive companies were so focused on quarterly profits for so long that now the Teslas, the Ubers and the Apples of the world are going to own them.

Cayden Thompson wrote:

If you're a tech fan like myself, why do they not give people the features that they want? Or if they do it takes years and is already a thing of the past.
The competition has been ahead for years now in most aspects!
They are purely an investor driven corporation that wants to see nothing but $$$$.

It's like comparing KTM to Suzuki. KTM gives the consumers what they want and make frequent and requested upgrades/updates to their machines, Suzuki does not.

Except Apple owns the market and Suzuki is losing all over. Apple products work amazingly well together and they also just work....nearly all the time. It's like a Toyota compared to a Chevrolet. It may not have every latest gadget/stereo/navigation and may not have the most horsepower, but it works and works and works and does everything it's supposed to very well.

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Facebook.com/8tensolutions
Twitter and Instagram @8tensolutions

11/15/2020 8:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/15/2020 8:17 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Apple is a company that is a prime example of catering to investors and not the consumers, just like Suzuki.

Is that supposed to be bad? Apple is one of the most profitable and valuable companies in the world. Maybe you're being sarcastic.

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11/15/2020 8:24 PM

RalphS wrote:

Yo got it completely wrong, Apple caters both very well. Job's main focus always was user experience and it still is what rides Apple's world. Same goes with Amazon, see Bezos' customer obsession.

Companies in technology and competitive industries have to focus in the consumer (either as a client or as a product) in order to thrive. User engagement and profitability is their way to please investors. It's not like Comcast, Charter a utility or local transit company.

To what was said above, the old classic automotive companies were so focused on quarterly profits for so long that now the Teslas, the Ubers and the Apples of the world are going to own them.

Cayden Thompson wrote:

If you're a tech fan like myself, why do they not give people the features that they want? Or if they do it takes years and is already a thing of the past.
The competition has been ahead for years now in most aspects!
They are purely an investor driven corporation that wants to see nothing but $$$$.

It's like comparing KTM to Suzuki. KTM gives the consumers what they want and make frequent and requested upgrades/updates to their machines, Suzuki does not.

8tensolutions wrote:

Except Apple owns the market and Suzuki is losing all over. Apple products work amazingly well together and they also just work....nearly all the time. It's like a Toyota compared to a Chevrolet. It may not have every latest gadget/stereo/navigation and may not have the most horsepower, but it works and works and works and does everything it's supposed to very well.

Actually Google's Android has 76% of the world's mobile market share, Apple iOS at 26%.
As more computers, Microsoft has 76% with Windows and Apple with 18%.
Where does Apple own the market? Tablets?

Dirtbike forum becoming a tech forum lol.

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11/15/2020 8:37 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

If you're a tech fan like myself, why do they not give people the features that they want? Or if they do it takes years and is already a thing of the past.
The competition has been ahead for years now in most aspects!
They are purely an investor driven corporation that wants to see nothing but $$$$.

It's like comparing KTM to Suzuki. KTM gives the consumers what they want and make frequent and requested upgrades/updates to their machines, Suzuki does not.

8tensolutions wrote:

Except Apple owns the market and Suzuki is losing all over. Apple products work amazingly well together and they also just work....nearly all the time. It's like a Toyota compared to a Chevrolet. It may not have every latest gadget/stereo/navigation and may not have the most horsepower, but it works and works and works and does everything it's supposed to very well.

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Actually Google's Android has 76% of the world's mobile market share, Apple iOS at 26%.
As more computers, Microsoft has 76% with Windows and Apple with 18%.
Where does Apple own the market? Tablets?

Dirtbike forum becoming a tech forum lol.

I can only base it on my personal observations. Considering everyone I know and work with.....it includes like 3 phones that are not iPhones and my MacBooks work the same 5 years after buying them and a PC is garbage in two. To each their own......kind of like arguing 2 strokes vs 4.

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Facebook.com/8tensolutions
Twitter and Instagram @8tensolutions

11/15/2020 8:43 PM

8tensolutions wrote:

Except Apple owns the market and Suzuki is losing all over. Apple products work amazingly well together and they also just work....nearly all the time. It's like a Toyota compared to a Chevrolet. It may not have every latest gadget/stereo/navigation and may not have the most horsepower, but it works and works and works and does everything it's supposed to very well.

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Actually Google's Android has 76% of the world's mobile market share, Apple iOS at 26%.
As more computers, Microsoft has 76% with Windows and Apple with 18%.
Where does Apple own the market? Tablets?

Dirtbike forum becoming a tech forum lol.

8tensolutions wrote:

I can only base it on my personal observations. Considering everyone I know and work with.....it includes like 3 phones that are not iPhones and my MacBooks work the same 5 years after buying them and a PC is garbage in two. To each their own......kind of like arguing 2 strokes vs 4.

I'm out of the 4 stroke hype.
Sold my 350 last week and picking up a new YZ250 this week.
Everyone been overhyping and overrating 4 strokes (and Apple) it seems.

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11/17/2020 8:06 AM

8tensolutions wrote:

I can only base it on my personal observations. Considering everyone I know and work with.....it includes like 3 phones that are not iPhones and my MacBooks work the same 5 years after buying them and a PC is garbage in two. To each their own......kind of like arguing 2 strokes vs 4.

Im not even a computer guy and this seems suspect. What exactly degrades in a PC over two years? I had a Dell XPS laptop for over ten years and it never let me down, played computer games on it and stuff.

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11/17/2020 12:34 PM

Didn't Suzuki just win the MotoGP title? Hmm

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11/17/2020 1:00 PM

viking24 wrote:

Didn't Suzuki just win the MotoGP title? Hmm

So? Honda won many MotoGP titles and no US MX title.... there is no correlation between the two

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

11/17/2020 1:11 PM

Suzuki have a revealing keynote coming up? What am I missing. Why are we comparing apple to a flailing struggling suzuki?

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11/17/2020 1:11 PM

Honda is a bad comparison, first the company can lose 100 million racing and not notice. Second the company was founded on racing and only sold production anything to fund that.

Hence why they don't workk about an outside title sponsor.

KTM has built thier sales and positive reputaion from winning. Suzuki has realized that their future in the motorcycle industry is in street bikes.

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11/17/2020 1:37 PM

Richard Tease II wrote:

Read an article on Boeing and its demise as the dominant player in the global aviation market. Huge factor in its fall was it started to produce aircraft for the stock market and not to there core values. New CEO currently looking to get back to core values. Safety, its people, innovation and greatness soundproof product. 737 max is the result of building to the stock market.

96% of airline profits are spend on stock buy backs. Total financial ruse

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11/17/2020 4:46 PM

tobz wrote:

Suzuki have a revealing keynote coming up? What am I missing. Why are we comparing apple to a flailing struggling suzuki?

Ehh

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