Webb's a punk

JustMX
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3/11/2018 10:07am
Saying the incident with Webb in a heat race cost tomac the win in the main is a pretty big stretch.

12th gate pick doesn't necessarily mean a poor start.

A poor start can still happen even with an early gate pick. Just ask Zack osborne.

Jason anderson got a sucky start in the main a couple races ago. Who in his heat race was at fault for that?

It just doesn't work that way. There are so many other variables. It is silly to try and make that link.
3/11/2018 10:19am Edited Date/Time 3/11/2018 10:22am
Motoxdoc wrote:
Tomac's psyche is like a "delicate flower" and it cost him the win tonight.
How? The incident was in the heat race. He passed 20 other guys in the main from dead last including Webb.
I guess it is within reason to say that had he had a better gate pick, he might not have been starting from dead last.

That said, I can't blame Eli for going for the kill there.
Shaned9326
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3/11/2018 10:24am
Eli was in around 5th place when he went down so gate pick really didn’t play into him having to come from back in this race!!
Brent
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3/11/2018 10:35am
If you have ever met or stood next to Cooper Webb you would know that he is a very small, slightly built kid.

Regardless of his elite talent level, it’s seemingly foolish for Webb to try and get physical with a much larger rider like Tomac who can literally shove him off the track.

The Shop

JayBraap19
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3/11/2018 10:58am
I’ve heard from a couple guys in Tomac’s camp that the angles shown on the TV broadcast of Webb moving over definitely do not do the incident any justice.

Here’s the thing about Webb; he’s a really good guy, and he works his ass off, but he carries a chip on his shoulder for multiple reasons and it shows sometimes in his riding.

Any high level rider will tell you that you can not fault him for making someone work to get around him, but when a guy is undoubtedly faster than you on any given lap, and you know it, the line is really thin when crossing over from “hard racing” to “dangerous cross over”.

The soft dirt and deep lines made those moves super sketchy due to the fact that it was easy to get crossrutted or catch a sand pocket and get bogged down, potentially causing a horrible two rider crash.
Motoxdoc
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3/11/2018 10:58am
I actually agree that that all riders delicate flowers, by your definition. You proved that with your other post about all the greats that have had...
I actually agree that that all riders delicate flowers, by your definition. You proved that with your other post about all the greats that have had incidents, as well as when they find their flow. None are immune to their performance being affected by their emotions. None of us are. What I don't agree with is the implication that what Tomac did was specifically due to Tomac's psyche. It read as if you thought this was another tick mark proving that he is mentally weak or that he isn't emotionally intelligent. I disagree with that. I think he did what almost any rider would do in that situation and I applaud his assertiveness, even if it didn't go to plan. I don't think Webb got in his head. I think Webb just had it coming. It wasn't petty, it was justice. Sure, he could have let it go, but the fact that 99% of professional racers would have done the same thing makes this less about his emotions and him being a flower and more about that being part of the sport. It's no different than a hockey player fighting a guy due to a cheap shot. Sure, it's in his (and team's) best interest to not take an instigator penalty, but you also can't let others walk all over you. The short term "pain" of Tomac taking a 2nd tonight will likely be a long term gain because Webb will (hopefully) think twice about being a dipshit.

You're all over the place. Half your statements support my opinion and half don't. I don't know if I proved my opinion above, that's why I stated it as an opinion and not as a fact....but thanks for the vote of confidence! BTW, I don't believe delicate flowers necessarily stay that way....most often delicate flowers grow to be strong.

"the fact that 99% of professional racers would have done the same thing makes this less about his emotions"......I don't see THAT connection. So, like...because 99% of the congregation drank the coolaide in Jonestown, no emotions were involved?!Huh
Dmcc
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3/11/2018 11:17am
I understand he s not out there to make friends but shouldn t be making enemies either.
Motoxdoc
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3/11/2018 11:20am
Shaned9326 wrote:
Eli was in around 5th place when he went down so gate pick really didn’t play into him having to come from back in this race!!
A 12th gate pick got him a 5th place start. You think he would've ended up in that exact same spot on the track if he had...say a 2nd, 3rd or 5th gate pick for the main? Hell, what about if he had 13th-20th gate pick? No matter how you slice it...the heat race crash led to that exact gate pick for the main, which led to his exact positioning off the start of the main, which led to the crash in the main, which led to a second place finish in the main. You can disagree with the reasoning but not the facts...but to me, the facts support the reasoning. Science.
mmcmx
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3/11/2018 11:30am
Independently of whatever hapened today, yes, he is that and more and it shouldn't surprise anyone.
3/11/2018 12:49pm
Word..

He is a clean rider. Webb pissed him off and he let him know that crap won't fly.
ctbale
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3/11/2018 4:34pm
Webb's comment at Washougal re: moosecan x-jumping. I am gunna put him on the ground and teach him "his" lesson.


Webbs a punk, but I am glad he is out there, more fun to watch!

The guys in the booth are lame for not picking up on the x-jumpin. And Fro was saying, it was the sand's fault that tomac hit webb? Did I even hear that right? Webb was cross jumping the shit out of tomac, no question. Would have been sweet justice if ET would have been able to take out CW2 a bit more cleanly.

Good Race!!
Montesa
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3/11/2018 7:32pm
All I can say is that my seats had an absolutely perfect view of the finish line jump and Webb's cross-jumping was WAY worse in person than it looked on that goofy ATV-cam TV shot. As they crested that jump almost side-by-side, Webb pulled the most dangerous-looking cross jump I have ever seen - combined with an in your face look-back whip that about slammed into Tomac. I don't know how Eli landed it without crashing into the tuff blocks. Pissed off? ANYONE would be. I was screaming at that punk thug Webb.
ledger
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3/11/2018 8:06pm
Where to find a vid ? Been searching with no luck.
Moto75
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3/11/2018 8:41pm
Stupid moves by both I'm. Webb standing on tomacs bike while he re-mounted was reminded me of Alessi going for the kill switch with Tedesco.
3/12/2018 6:32am
downard254 wrote:
Well, Webb was definitely doing a good job of blocking. That’s part of racing right. But what I really notice about Webb this season, he’s pretty...
Well, Webb was definitely doing a good job of blocking. That’s part of racing right. But what I really notice about Webb this season, he’s pretty damn good at pushing certain riders buttons. He gets some more speed, that will be bad for riders who can keep their composure.
Cross Jumping and trying to take someone out in the air is not 'blocking.' Generally the guys are all ok with defensive riding and not leaving the insides open etc. The guys are not good with cross jumping, dangerous whipping etc. Big difference.
davistld01
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3/12/2018 7:13am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2018 7:14am
make1go wrote:
Fact is you can only be a punk when youre young. Im old, ive tried, it doesnt work. You can be many things when you are...
Fact is you can only be a punk when youre young.

Im old, ive tried, it doesnt work.

You can be many things when you are older, being a punk isnt one of them,

so I have to give him a pass no matter whether i think hes doing good or doing bad..
I agree with everything except giving Webb a pass. It's one thing to be like Forkner was last week...without a back brake (so he says) and getting off balance (so he said) off the jumps...and it's another thing entirely to basically admit to cross jumping in front of Eli and not giving a shit. I'd have risked going down too just to put that little jerk over the berm. Oh well...life goes on.

Just racing.
mx 219
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3/12/2018 7:18am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2018 7:19am
Here is the only video I have found online for now, some guy that recorded some of the racing from his seat. Jump forward to about 15:30 or 16 minutes.

billyp330
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3/12/2018 7:22am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2018 7:24am
I'm no Webb fan at all and was actually excited to see Tomac take him out, however it was still a bad move on Tomac's part bc he went down too!!. Also a lot of you on here claim to be racers/riders yourself, yet you lack the understanding of how quickly things happen on a track and how hard it is to judge how close other riders are around you, especially when they are behind you. I am no jerk local hero trying to take people out, yet I have been yelled at a couple times for "cutting people off" over my years of racing. One particular time, I passed a guy on last lap of last corner before finish line. It was a little switch back corner with like a dragons back on inside that if you hit you could almost go perfectly straight through the switchback right into the face of finish jump (hence why the dragonsback thing was there to keep the outside line a valid option). Probaly 99% of the time everyone went outside because the dragons back was sketchy. However the guy was right in front of me so I went for it for the first time ever. My thought was all I had to do is pull next to the guy in front of me, hit the dragons back and he would see that I had the position since my line was straight line right to finish and his was a left then right. All he had to do was left of the gas just a little and that would of worked perfectly. He didn't let off because he didn't want to lose the spot on last lap so close to finish ofcourse and I don't blame him so we bumped some and it was a bit sketchy but I didn't think it was really that bad. We go off the track and he pulls next to me. I'm thinking he wants to stop to say good race because it was a nice little battle. Instead hes yelling and swearing at me saying I almost killed him blah blah blah. Next moto he cuts me off in first turn I follow him for a lap and make a clean pass. Last lap I mess a corner up and he smashes me. I get ripped from the bike and sucked into his rear wheel. The muffler is burning me and he doesn't let off the gas so the rear tire is basically just ripping my melting skin off my lower back. Hurt like hell. Flagger finally yells at the guy to stop trying to go and helps get me out of his bike. We get off the track and I go over there saying dude why didn't you let off the gas, it was pretty damn obvious I was stuck iin your bike (I was screaming like hell for him to stop and slapping his leg). Dude basically just says I deserved it for my first moto pass. This was all for like 3rd place in 450 C class and the guy was in his mid 30s prob and I was like 17 or 18 lol I'm 25 now and still got a gaint scar on my lower back that looks horrible. Looking back now all I can think about is how I shouldn't of been battling with that dude anyway. Should of smoked him.

Moral of the story: It's all about perspective

Also I have always looked at it as the rider in front controls the line and its up to the rider behind to get around them as best they can.
Donovan759
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3/12/2018 7:32am
ctbale wrote:
Webb's comment at Washougal re: moosecan x-jumping. I am gunna put him on the ground and teach him "his" lesson. Webbs a punk, but I am...
Webb's comment at Washougal re: moosecan x-jumping. I am gunna put him on the ground and teach him "his" lesson.


Webbs a punk, but I am glad he is out there, more fun to watch!

The guys in the booth are lame for not picking up on the x-jumpin. And Fro was saying, it was the sand's fault that tomac hit webb? Did I even hear that right? Webb was cross jumping the shit out of tomac, no question. Would have been sweet justice if ET would have been able to take out CW2 a bit more cleanly.

Good Race!!
Fro wasn't necessarily saying it was the sands fault ET3 hit Webb. He was more-so saying that because of the lack of traction in the sand, it made it hard for ET3 to block pass Webb and stick the pass without falling over.

At least that's how I took it.
MPJC
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3/12/2018 7:40am
Shaned9326 wrote:
Eli was in around 5th place when he went down so gate pick really didn’t play into him having to come from back in this race!!
Motoxdoc wrote:
A 12th gate pick got him a 5th place start. You think he would've ended up in that exact same spot on the track if he...
A 12th gate pick got him a 5th place start. You think he would've ended up in that exact same spot on the track if he had...say a 2nd, 3rd or 5th gate pick for the main? Hell, what about if he had 13th-20th gate pick? No matter how you slice it...the heat race crash led to that exact gate pick for the main, which led to his exact positioning off the start of the main, which led to the crash in the main, which led to a second place finish in the main. You can disagree with the reasoning but not the facts...but to me, the facts support the reasoning. Science.
You have jumped from stating a set of facts about the actual world to making an inference about a possible world (a world just like the actual world where Tomac does not take out Webb) without showing that we can have sufficient knowledge of the possible variables between the events preceding the heat race crash (in which the actual and possible worlds are identical) and the main event start (in which they've diverged) to justify the inference. This is not logic; it is speculation masquerading as logic. It is most certainly not science.

make1go
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3/12/2018 8:00am
Okay okay, his new nick name and kinda taking over of the mantle since jbs maturation.. ...Wham Wham Webb..no? yes? maybe?..
JB 19
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3/12/2018 8:48am
I don't blame Tomac at all for the kamikaze shot, but these guys are also under big time pressure....Especially Webb, who has drastically under performed on a 450 from the expectations to this point. In some cases they are racing for their next million dollar contract. You guys think you wouldn't get a little dirty out there for a seven figure contact?

Sometimes I wonder how much of vital has even raced. How about the start straight chop off. Your dad ever teach you to get a wheel coming out of the gate on your biggest competitor and move over? Mine did. It's called racing.....Not riding. They are two different things.
Forty
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3/12/2018 9:38am
He moved over on him but where was the cross jump?
peelout
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3/12/2018 9:44am
sometimes i wonder if i'm watching the same race as you guys...

TXDirt
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3/12/2018 9:47am
Forty wrote:
He moved over on him but where was the cross jump?
Ask Tomac maybe?

From the TV it looked like Webb cross jumped Tomac, or at the very least crossed over on the face of a jump when Tomac was already committed to that line/jump. That's basically the same thing.

Tomac obviously felt the same way because he decided to take Webb out even it that meant taking himself out too.

That's how bad it is to cross jump someone. It's an unwritten rule of racing. Do it and be prepared to be taken out then.
Forty
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3/12/2018 9:50am
TXDirt wrote:
Ask Tomac maybe? From the TV it looked like Webb cross jumped Tomac, or at the very least crossed over on the face of a jump...
Ask Tomac maybe?

From the TV it looked like Webb cross jumped Tomac, or at the very least crossed over on the face of a jump when Tomac was already committed to that line/jump. That's basically the same thing.

Tomac obviously felt the same way because he decided to take Webb out even it that meant taking himself out too.

That's how bad it is to cross jump someone. It's an unwritten rule of racing. Do it and be prepared to be taken out then.
I saw Webb take Eli’s line on the jump face and Eli had to check up. Is that what you’re calling a cross jump?
TXDirt
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3/12/2018 9:57am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2018 10:02am
TXDirt wrote:
Ask Tomac maybe? From the TV it looked like Webb cross jumped Tomac, or at the very least crossed over on the face of a jump...
Ask Tomac maybe?

From the TV it looked like Webb cross jumped Tomac, or at the very least crossed over on the face of a jump when Tomac was already committed to that line/jump. That's basically the same thing.

Tomac obviously felt the same way because he decided to take Webb out even it that meant taking himself out too.

That's how bad it is to cross jump someone. It's an unwritten rule of racing. Do it and be prepared to be taken out then.
Forty wrote:
I saw Webb take Eli’s line on the jump face and Eli had to check up. Is that what you’re calling a cross jump?
That was the wall jump correct where they just single? "Check up" is a bit different on that specific jump because it was a rolling single. I believe there was another place that Tomac felt Webb crossed the line.

Now imagine if that single was a triple that Tomac was fully committed on already. He can't exactly "check up" can he?

That's part of cross jumping. Not just fading over into someone in mid-air. It can start right on the take off when you get cut off but are already fully committed to the jump.

It's the dirtiest move and the riders hate it above anything else.

That's why Tomac cleaned Webb out and Tomac didn't care if he crashed too.
Forty
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3/12/2018 11:06am
TXDirt wrote:
That was the wall jump correct where they just single? "Check up" is a bit different on that specific jump because it was a rolling single...
That was the wall jump correct where they just single? "Check up" is a bit different on that specific jump because it was a rolling single. I believe there was another place that Tomac felt Webb crossed the line.

Now imagine if that single was a triple that Tomac was fully committed on already. He can't exactly "check up" can he?

That's part of cross jumping. Not just fading over into someone in mid-air. It can start right on the take off when you get cut off but are already fully committed to the jump.

It's the dirtiest move and the riders hate it above anything else.

That's why Tomac cleaned Webb out and Tomac didn't care if he crashed too.
Eli may have been in a twist already as Webb was messing with him for nearly a lap prior to that. The checkup on the face of that single was the final straw and Eli put him down.

Not sure where this will go with Webb showing some increased speed, they will find each other again.


Kyle978
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3/12/2018 11:13am
Love Tomac knocking him down should have got him harder made his head bounce of the ground
Squid

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