Webb’s pass on Tomac = Penalised

slipdog
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3/16/2019 7:27pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2019 7:28pm
I am a huge non-Webb fan but he literally went off the track and re-entered as safely as he possibly could under the circumstances.

He could've torpedoed Tomac but made every effort possible to turn down away from him, not his fault Tomac panicked thinking it was a take-out move. Can't blame Tomac for thinking that either.
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SlasherMcGee
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3/16/2019 7:29pm
agn5009 wrote:
You guys are a bunch of whiners. It wasn’t intentional. He landed on the tough block for crying out loud. It would be a joke if...
You guys are a bunch of whiners. It wasn’t intentional. He landed on the tough block for crying out loud. It would be a joke if he was penalized
I don't think you understand what some of us are arguing.
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
No, you don't.
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Narwhal
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3/16/2019 7:30pm
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
Well, if that’s the case, then I can’t wait to start seeing this become the new norm on how to pass people
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hamncheeze
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3/16/2019 7:33pm
I'm a Tomac fan through and through but I'd be pretty disappointed if Webb was docked for that. It was unintentional and I thought for a moment he and Tomac were both going to go flying over the berm. Kudos to Coop for actually getting the bike stopped and turning before he made contact!!
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The Shop

agn5009
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3/16/2019 7:37pm
I don't think you understand what some of us are arguing.
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
No, you don't.
So explain it then.
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captmoto
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3/16/2019 7:41pm
I don't think you can dock someone for cross rutting. Cooper locked that back wheel up. I think he had a huge OH SHIT moment there. No penalty.
Tomac? I think his back is still giving him problems.
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3/16/2019 7:45pm
Regardless of who you are a fan of, whether Webb's move was intentional or not (it wasn't), and how great Webb saved it to avoid contact, the AMA will have to enforce the rule book.

If they they don't, I see a lot of guys starting to practice fake cross rut mishaps at the track all week to non intentionally jump over a corner/section and "accidentally" gain a position. This is a slippery slope.

Whether you agree with it or not, the AMA will say he went off track, gained an advantage, and made a pass as a result of that advantage. He will then be docked two positions and finish in 5th place.

We shall see...
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agn5009
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3/16/2019 7:45pm
captmoto wrote:
I don't think you can dock someone for cross rutting. Cooper locked that back wheel up. I think he had a huge OH SHIT moment there...
I don't think you can dock someone for cross rutting. Cooper locked that back wheel up. I think he had a huge OH SHIT moment there. No penalty.
Tomac? I think his back is still giving him problems.
But why wasn’t his back bothering him last week? Or the other couple weeks he has won and looked good. I don’t know. Maybe he feels good some weeks and others he doesn’t. I honestly believe this is just Tomac being Tomac. If everything is perfect he rides great. If he gets just a little flustered he completely caves. It’s just been that way his whole career and I don’t see it changing now.
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Crush
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3/16/2019 7:47pm
Regardless of who you are a fan of, whether Webb's move was intentional or not (it wasn't), and how great Webb saved it to avoid contact...
Regardless of who you are a fan of, whether Webb's move was intentional or not (it wasn't), and how great Webb saved it to avoid contact, the AMA will have to enforce the rule book.

If they they don't, I see a lot of guys starting to practice fake cross rut mishaps at the track all week to non intentionally jump over a corner/section and "accidentally" gain a position. This is a slippery slope.

Whether you agree with it or not, the AMA will say he went off track, gained an advantage, and made a pass as a result of that advantage. He will then be docked two positions and finish in 5th place.

We shall see...
Assuming they will do anything is definitely an assumption!
jemcee
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3/16/2019 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2019 7:52pm
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
No, you don't.
agn5009 wrote:
So explain it then.
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting
I don't think they should penalise him mainly cause it didn't seem to be a deciding factor in the race but if they did it'll bring the points closer, so I don't care either way haha
barnett468
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3/16/2019 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2019 7:54pm
Allowing a rider to get back on the track farther ahead then where they went off it is bullcrap, and I can't wait top see how many people thumb down my post, lol.

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1
3/16/2019 7:50pm
Regardless of who you are a fan of, whether Webb's move was intentional or not (it wasn't), and how great Webb saved it to avoid contact...
Regardless of who you are a fan of, whether Webb's move was intentional or not (it wasn't), and how great Webb saved it to avoid contact, the AMA will have to enforce the rule book.

If they they don't, I see a lot of guys starting to practice fake cross rut mishaps at the track all week to non intentionally jump over a corner/section and "accidentally" gain a position. This is a slippery slope.

Whether you agree with it or not, the AMA will say he went off track, gained an advantage, and made a pass as a result of that advantage. He will then be docked two positions and finish in 5th place.

We shall see...
Crush wrote:
Assuming they will do anything is definitely an assumption!
Very true, maybe they will do nothing...we'll see.
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3/16/2019 7:52pm
Monster executives on the phone as we speak.
Tarz483
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3/16/2019 7:55pm
You Guys think someone could do that move on purpose ?
And safely lol
It was an oh shit move, Definitely no penalty.
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logan_140
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3/16/2019 7:57pm
Should not be a position penalty tho. If anything it should be 5-10 seconds
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agn5009
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3/16/2019 7:58pm
No, you don't.
agn5009 wrote:
So explain it then.
jemcee wrote:
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting I don't think they...
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting
I don't think they should penalise him mainly cause it didn't seem to be a deciding factor in the race but if they did it'll bring the points closer, so I don't care either way haha
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked his brakes so he didn’t collide with Tomac. Tomac did a nice job of seeing it coming so he spiked his brakes as well. Both regrouped and exited the turn without incident. Nice job to both of them for being aware of the situation. So now it’s game back on. Webb passes Tomac and gaps him. End of story.
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Crush
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3/16/2019 8:03pm
agn5009 wrote:
So explain it then.
jemcee wrote:
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting I don't think they...
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting
I don't think they should penalise him mainly cause it didn't seem to be a deciding factor in the race but if they did it'll bring the points closer, so I don't care either way haha
agn5009 wrote:
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked...
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked his brakes so he didn’t collide with Tomac. Tomac did a nice job of seeing it coming so he spiked his brakes as well. Both regrouped and exited the turn without incident. Nice job to both of them for being aware of the situation. So now it’s game back on. Webb passes Tomac and gaps him. End of story.
There's not a provision in the rule for intent though.

The only thing that is close in this regard is point one, accelerating in an unsafe manner.

I can see both sides, wouldn't be surprised with either outcome.
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3/16/2019 8:04pm
ok so I think we are all agreed it was an accident... unintentional... a great save... but:

1) why didn't he just let Tomac past

and

2) are we saying he could have passed him in that turn without cutting the corner?
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logan_140
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3/16/2019 8:05pm
ok so I think we are all agreed it was an accident... unintentional... a great save... but: 1) why didn't he just let Tomac past and...
ok so I think we are all agreed it was an accident... unintentional... a great save... but:

1) why didn't he just let Tomac past

and

2) are we saying he could have passed him in that turn without cutting the corner?
He was close enough to tbone him probably lol
agn5009
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3/16/2019 8:08pm
ok so I think we are all agreed it was an accident... unintentional... a great save... but: 1) why didn't he just let Tomac past and...
ok so I think we are all agreed it was an accident... unintentional... a great save... but:

1) why didn't he just let Tomac past

and

2) are we saying he could have passed him in that turn without cutting the corner?
Because it’s impossible to make a decision such as that in a split second. And he probably didn’t think it was going to be an issue. I sure didn’t when I saw it live.
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davis224
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3/16/2019 8:08pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2019 8:14pm
Really don't like Webb, but he cross rutted, missed one tuff block by landing in the inside of it in the corner. Technically, he was still behind Tomac when he "re-entered" the track, Tomac just panicked (rightfully so) when he saw Webb heading straight towards him. It wasn't like he cut the entire corner and came out ahead. I understand it kind of toes the line according to the rule book, but it didn't change anything. It just forced what was going to happen in a few corners anyway.
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jemcee
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3/16/2019 8:10pm
agn5009 wrote:
So explain it then.
jemcee wrote:
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting I don't think they...
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting
I don't think they should penalise him mainly cause it didn't seem to be a deciding factor in the race but if they did it'll bring the points closer, so I don't care either way haha
agn5009 wrote:
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked...
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked his brakes so he didn’t collide with Tomac. Tomac did a nice job of seeing it coming so he spiked his brakes as well. Both regrouped and exited the turn without incident. Nice job to both of them for being aware of the situation. So now it’s game back on. Webb passes Tomac and gaps him. End of story.
Nope, they want a guy penalised over the track cutting..
500guy
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3/16/2019 8:10pm
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
Narwhal wrote:
Well, if that’s the case, then I can’t wait to start seeing this become the new norm on how to pass people
It's like saying you don't deserve a speeding ticket because you "didn't mean to speed."

My gut reaction was he broke the rules and cut the track.
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logan_140
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3/16/2019 8:11pm
davis224 wrote:
Really don't like Webb, but he cross rutted, missed one tuff block by landing in the inside of it in the corner. Technically, he was still...
Really don't like Webb, but he cross rutted, missed one tuff block by landing in the inside of it in the corner. Technically, he was still behind Tomac when he "re-entered" the track, Tomac just panicked (rightfully so) when he saw Webb heading straight towards him. It wasn't like he cut the entire corner and came out ahead. I understand it kind of toes the line according to the rule book, but it didn't change anything. It just forced what was going to happen in a few corners anyway.
Might actually be better for tomac’s sake.. webb was gonna have to force the issue for a pass and tomac could have ended up on the ground
NateDawg
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3/16/2019 8:12pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2019 8:18pm
agn5009 wrote:
You guys are a bunch of whiners. It wasn’t intentional. He landed on the tough block for crying out loud. It would be a joke if...
You guys are a bunch of whiners. It wasn’t intentional. He landed on the tough block for crying out loud. It would be a joke if he was penalized
I don't think you understand what some of us are arguing.
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
I can already tell you've never fought for a serious championship in your life.

Also, it's amazing how many people in this thread don't understand the rulebook. Whether it was international or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Objectively speaking, Webb cut the track and gained an advantage. That advantage also likely gained him a position. These are facts and they meet the qualifications for a penalty. It really is that simple.
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Tarz483
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3/16/2019 8:13pm
In my mind A penalty is for making a bad decision on something and being penalized for your bad decision.
Not for a mistake , its a very unusual situation in that it resulted in a pass but Coop was right there in striking distance also,
I can see how it could have been ugly , think about the Time Dungey totally T-boned Stewart, had Eli cut down that totally could have happened.
And luckily Coops rear wheel was on the ground, that was the biggest difference, Dungey got a little huckabuck and tried to hit the rear brake , but his rear wheel wasnt on the ground when he hit Stewart.
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agn5009
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3/16/2019 8:15pm
jemcee wrote:
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting I don't think they...
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting
I don't think they should penalise him mainly cause it didn't seem to be a deciding factor in the race but if they did it'll bring the points closer, so I don't care either way haha
agn5009 wrote:
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked...
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked his brakes so he didn’t collide with Tomac. Tomac did a nice job of seeing it coming so he spiked his brakes as well. Both regrouped and exited the turn without incident. Nice job to both of them for being aware of the situation. So now it’s game back on. Webb passes Tomac and gaps him. End of story.
jemcee wrote:
Nope, they want a guy penalised over the track cutting..
No they absolutely do not. They want his penalized because he gained a position while “Cutting the track” (which is bullshit. He didn’t cut the track. He made a mistake.) No one in their right mind would think he needed penalized for “cutting the track” if Tomac hadn’t been there and he hadn’t passed him. So no, you’re wrong. No ones saying he should be penalized for “cutting the track.”
agn5009
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3/16/2019 8:17pm
I don't think you understand what some of us are arguing.
agn5009 wrote:
I completely understand. Some of you dingalings want the AMA to start penalizing guys for unintentional mistakes/accidents.
NateDawg wrote:
I can already tell you've never fought for a serious championship in your life. Also, it's amazing how many people in this thread don't understand the...
I can already tell you've never fought for a serious championship in your life.

Also, it's amazing how many people in this thread don't understand the rulebook. Whether it was international or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Objectively speaking, Webb cut the track and gained an advantage. That advantage also likely gained him a position. These are facts and they meet the qualifications for a penalty. It really is that simple.
Laughing now THAT is funny right there! Whistling
SlasherMcGee
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3/16/2019 8:18pm
agn5009 wrote:
So explain it then.
jemcee wrote:
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting I don't think they...
It's the fact that the accidental track cutting lead to a pass.. that maybe wouldn't have happened without the accidental track cutting
I don't think they should penalise him mainly cause it didn't seem to be a deciding factor in the race but if they did it'll bring the points closer, so I don't care either way haha
agn5009 wrote:
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked...
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked his brakes so he didn’t collide with Tomac. Tomac did a nice job of seeing it coming so he spiked his brakes as well. Both regrouped and exited the turn without incident. Nice job to both of them for being aware of the situation. So now it’s game back on. Webb passes Tomac and gaps him. End of story.
Woah!

OK, let's try this another way.

Say JH and AC are battling at some Euro track for the win. It's a back and forth battle all race. They come into the last corner, a sharp left hand 90'.


JH is in the lead by a couple bike lengths as they had into the corner.


AC hits a square edge bump that sends him off track, cutting the track, and he's now ahead of JH. JH needs to slow up because AC damn near ran him off track as he was out of control, cutting through the giant GEARNE and IPONE banners blocking the fans view of the track.

AC takes the win by a bike length. JH is mad. Why is JH mad?

JH is mad because AC fucked up and his fuck up lead to his cutting the track, which inadvertently saved time, and gained an advantage.

So what are we(myself and others in this thread) arguing?

We are arguing the fact that the rule book clearly states you cannot cut the track to gain an advantage, and the same rule book DOES NOT have an exception to such rule stating it's OK to cut the track if you are out of control(because of said fuck up).

I'm not trying to be an ass here.. I hope you now understand where we are coming from.

To be clear, I'd rather have Webb win the title than the Frenchman.



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SlasherMcGee
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3/16/2019 8:22pm
agn5009 wrote:
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked...
Again, so they want a guy penalized over an accident? Webb messes up, resulting in him losing control and being thrown into the berm. He spiked his brakes so he didn’t collide with Tomac. Tomac did a nice job of seeing it coming so he spiked his brakes as well. Both regrouped and exited the turn without incident. Nice job to both of them for being aware of the situation. So now it’s game back on. Webb passes Tomac and gaps him. End of story.
jemcee wrote:
Nope, they want a guy penalised over the track cutting..
agn5009 wrote:
No they absolutely do not. They want his penalized because he gained a position while “Cutting the track” (which is bullshit. He didn’t cut the track...
No they absolutely do not. They want his penalized because he gained a position while “Cutting the track” (which is bullshit. He didn’t cut the track. He made a mistake.) No one in their right mind would think he needed penalized for “cutting the track” if Tomac hadn’t been there and he hadn’t passed him. So no, you’re wrong. No ones saying he should be penalized for “cutting the track.”
You should go back and read what you just posted.

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