We were robbed by the AMA tonight

B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 11:16am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
omalley wrote:
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class. There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later...
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class.
There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later if memory serves.
jeffro503 wrote:
What track was it at the last national of the year , where the cancelled the race because the track actually flooded? Like 2 years in...
What track was it at the last national of the year , where the cancelled the race because the track actually flooded? Like 2 years in a row? Steel city? And another round where they cancelled the 2nd motos due to lightning. Thinking Southwick or Unadilla?

I'm glad they didn't cancel last night , but running an SX track is a lot different then the outdoor tracks.

And for those of you who said " they are the big dogs and make a lot of money "......how much do you think it cost the privateer's and lower budget teams last night? There were bikes that basically got destroyed , and dudes on a shoe string budget just did more damage to their equipment in one race.....then what a normal 4 - 6 rounds would have.

Just be glad you ain't flipping the bill.
Kenworthys
RickyRoss519
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4/8/2018 11:17am
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing...
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing but end of the day it's still a dirt bike.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should...
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should be able to hop on to any supercross track and finish near the front of the pack each week......
I'm not comparing abilities of the riders. Just the demand on the bike.
ACBraap
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4/8/2018 11:17am
nobody949 wrote:
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno...
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno he could not make it up the hill/jump and past the finish line banner. Nothing on his part but why did they give him that? Is that cheating by AMA? I guess they do what they want.
I think at that point, he was the last rider on the lead lap, so would been credited with the same finish either way.
ACBraap
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4/8/2018 11:21am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should...
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should be able to hop on to any supercross track and finish near the front of the pack each week......
Yeah. We saw an example of that on the 250 class.

The Shop

APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 11:23am
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing...
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing but end of the day it's still a dirt bike.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should...
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should be able to hop on to any supercross track and finish near the front of the pack each week......
I'm not comparing abilities of the riders. Just the demand on the bike.
The different abilities/techniques put vastly different demands on the bikes, though. There are reasons why bikes are set up very differently between SX and GNCC.
APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 11:27am
ACBraap wrote:
Yeah. We saw an example of that on the 250 class.
I'd say that Plessinger is much more of a SX/MX racer than an off road racer these days. Do you believe that anyone in one of the top off road series could line up and podium at a "normal" SX race? And those guys are amazing riders, but the disciplines are so completely different......
ACBraap
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4/8/2018 11:27am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2018 11:29am
jeffro503 wrote:
What track was it at the last national of the year , where the cancelled the race because the track actually flooded? Like 2 years in...
What track was it at the last national of the year , where the cancelled the race because the track actually flooded? Like 2 years in a row? Steel city? And another round where they cancelled the 2nd motos due to lightning. Thinking Southwick or Unadilla?

I'm glad they didn't cancel last night , but running an SX track is a lot different then the outdoor tracks.

And for those of you who said " they are the big dogs and make a lot of money "......how much do you think it cost the privateer's and lower budget teams last night? There were bikes that basically got destroyed , and dudes on a shoe string budget just did more damage to their equipment in one race.....then what a normal 4 - 6 rounds would have.

Just be glad you ain't flipping the bill.
As said by someome else, Kenworthy’s was the flooded one. Unadilla was the lightning one. As far as footing the bill, a stadium full of people bought tickets for an event with 15 and 20 minute mains. Cutting laps made sense when mains were a fixed number of laps. Cutting minutes would only make sense if lap times were so long that say, 18+ 1 would have the same total time as 20+1 on a normal night.
Motoxdoc
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4/8/2018 11:37am
Conditions like last night will naturally separate the riders a great deal more. I think on rainy days like that they should chop down most of the jumps and make it more of a turn track. Then make the jumps they keep into tabletops and drops offs onto flat ground. They need to simplify the track to pull the racers back together again. The excitement isn't in watching a single racer do some radical obstacle, but rather in multiple racers battling with each other....just my 2 cents.
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 11:47am
Motoxdoc wrote:
Conditions like last night will naturally separate the riders a great deal more. I think on rainy days like that they should chop down most of...
Conditions like last night will naturally separate the riders a great deal more. I think on rainy days like that they should chop down most of the jumps and make it more of a turn track. Then make the jumps they keep into tabletops and drops offs onto flat ground. They need to simplify the track to pull the racers back together again. The excitement isn't in watching a single racer do some radical obstacle, but rather in multiple racers battling with each other....just my 2 cents.
This ^
Frank
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4/8/2018 11:47am
TV is the reason they had to shorten the races. Yes in the end they went to short but at least we got to see the winners cross the line before it switched to womens bowling or something.
acres951
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4/8/2018 12:01pm
Lots of conjecture but could someone like ML512 fill us in as to what they actually do to the bikes for a race like this?
I read pit bits before this thread and recall lots about foam and grip tape and solid rotors but do the teams do things like run lower compression pistons or different types of clutch plates and springs etc for something like this? Maybe my suggestions are stupid I have no idea.

I sort of wonder if running an enduro set up motor as posed to an sx set up is done and if it’s even beneficial. Like someone said, a GNCC is different from the constant rutted tightness of an sx.
Muezh
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4/8/2018 12:02pm
GuyB wrote:
In the press conference, Eli suggested that it would have been a bike graveyard out there if they had gone the normal 20 minutes.
That would have been great to watch. Last bike standing wins.
King KTM
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4/8/2018 12:10pm
JB 19 wrote:
I wonder what the GNCC guys would think of these guys burning a clutch up in 10 minutes.....since they race 3 HOURS in the same conditions...
I wonder what the GNCC guys would think of these guys burning a clutch up in 10 minutes.....since they race 3 HOURS in the same conditions. For God's sake, you can't slip the clutch every second in a mud race. How many GP guys are laughing at this stuff?
jeffro503 wrote:
There was a 2 time world champion out there tonight , who took 3rd.....and roasted the shit out of his clutch too.
I believe Plessinger also did a lot of GNCC and I also noticed he whipped the shit out of everyone so maybe enduro riders have more experience with clutch management in those conditions.
Kawi15
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4/8/2018 12:29pm
Personally I thought last nights racing was among some of the best I have ever seen. They were not all close together, but the conditions were so brutal just getting to the finish deserves a prize. We could see some very talented riders struggle, and others make the best of it. We do not often see it this way. I do not think the length of the races changed how great they were in any fashion. Reed was impressive. I wish he could have gotten the top 5.. but sometimes its just not to be.
King KTM
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4/8/2018 12:30pm
es337 wrote:
how many minutes would an alta have won by last night? No wonder the oems are scared. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/08/254250/s1200_15338485_1829019364054592_7987389051609022464_n.jpg_ig_cache_key_MTQwNTk0MjE5MDU0MjE2MDAyOQ.jpg[/img]
how many minutes would an alta have won by last night? No wonder the oems are scared.



I doubt it would have even finished the race with the extra mud weight and drag causing added drain on battery charge as well as overheating, as i understand it these motors are water cooled as well. I wish one had been in this particular race to answer questions like this one way or the other. Still a lot of questions in my mind but I sure time will answer most. I wish I close to a demo track I really want to ride one.
resetjet
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4/8/2018 12:31pm
pless was out front. didnt have his radiators packed full of mud causing his oil to be hot as hell.
JB 19
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4/8/2018 12:33pm
Cianciarulo smoked his clutch in a 5 minute heat race......then made it last in a main that was twice as long. Looks like he learned a lesson in clutch management.

In mud races the clutch should be used to keep the bike from stalling, not making the bike go.
King KTM
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4/8/2018 12:40pm
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing...
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing but end of the day it's still a dirt bike.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should...
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should be able to hop on to any supercross track and finish near the front of the pack each week......
Kinda like Plessinger did?
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 1:01pm
resetjet wrote:
pless was out front. didnt have his radiators packed full of mud causing his oil to be hot as hell.
They have oil coolers? I thought they just did the engine coolant
resetjet
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B DUB 333 wrote:
They have oil coolers? I thought they just did the engine coolant
Engine runs hot due to hot coolant therefore oil hot too.
Mx746
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4/8/2018 1:30pm
Mini version of the Blackwater 100.
rohleder644
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4/8/2018 1:48pm
The guys calling the shots are smarter minds than me for sure. But, I do find the gncc comparison an interesting one. I'm not sure how many of you have raced an off-road mudder, but they get every bit as bad as last night's sx. We seem to get our bikes to last longer than 8 minutes. Or we don't, and the results reflect that.
APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 2:02pm
King KTM wrote:
Kinda like Plessinger did?
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular?

How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series at the top level?
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 2:51pm
King KTM wrote:
Kinda like Plessinger did?
APLMAN99 wrote:
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular? How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series...
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular?

How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series at the top level?
Didn't caselli or some gncc guy race a national a few years back and do well? And Mike Brown, Ryan sipes, have tried offroad with success. I think if your good on a dirt bike your good on a dirt bike. I've rode with Ronnie Renner a few times and he had plenty of moto and off road skill. Man I miss those days...
APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 2:57pm
King KTM wrote:
Kinda like Plessinger did?
APLMAN99 wrote:
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular? How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series...
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular?

How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series at the top level?
B DUB 333 wrote:
Didn't caselli or some gncc guy race a national a few years back and do well? And Mike Brown, Ryan sipes, have tried offroad with success...
Didn't caselli or some gncc guy race a national a few years back and do well? And Mike Brown, Ryan sipes, have tried offroad with success. I think if your good on a dirt bike your good on a dirt bike. I've rode with Ronnie Renner a few times and he had plenty of moto and off road skill. Man I miss those days...
Good isn't quite the same as being a top competitor.

It wasn't Caselli, I'm pretty sure it was an off-road guy from up this way. Can't think of his name right now but I think he ended up with some sort of incidence of domestic violence, not that that has anything to do with this of course! And I don't think he podiumed any sort of SX event.
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 3:33pm
Quit nick picking, he made the show. And it sounds like he'd of won if his woman wasn't nagging him...
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 3:34pm
Is it nit or nick picking? Gotta b careful around here or ya get flamed
Johnny Depp
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4/8/2018 3:46pm
Curious that many that commented about the Triple Crown races being too short have nothing to say about this race being shorter.
Titan1
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4/8/2018 4:04pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular? How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series...
Is Plessinger a current top off-road series regular? Or is he a SX/MX regular?

How long has it been since he's competed a full off-road series at the top level?
B DUB 333 wrote:
Didn't caselli or some gncc guy race a national a few years back and do well? And Mike Brown, Ryan sipes, have tried offroad with success...
Didn't caselli or some gncc guy race a national a few years back and do well? And Mike Brown, Ryan sipes, have tried offroad with success. I think if your good on a dirt bike your good on a dirt bike. I've rode with Ronnie Renner a few times and he had plenty of moto and off road skill. Man I miss those days...
APLMAN99 wrote:
Good isn't quite the same as being a top competitor. It wasn't Caselli, I'm pretty sure it was an off-road guy from up this way. Can't...
Good isn't quite the same as being a top competitor.

It wasn't Caselli, I'm pretty sure it was an off-road guy from up this way. Can't think of his name right now but I think he ended up with some sort of incidence of domestic violence, not that that has anything to do with this of course! And I don't think he podiumed any sort of SX event.
Ricky Dietrich?

The point is-I think-that the top off-road guys are just as hard on bikes-even clutches-as the top supercross guys...and they can make their bikes last 3 hours in the mud-that is equally as bad as last night...how in the world are those dudes cooking clutches in 15 minutes (5 minutes in AC’s case)?
Titan1
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4/8/2018 4:07pm
On topic...How cool would it have been to go the full 20+2...and have only a handful of bikes finish? All the factory bikes DNF...and some no named local pro who barely made the main wins the race?

I don’t think races should ever be shortened...just my opinion though.

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