We were robbed by the AMA tonight

ATKpilot99
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4/8/2018 7:59am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
Not sure about shortening the motos but back in 94 I think ? They cancelled the second motos at Hangtown . There was basically a river running across the track. I'll bet a lot of riders wished they would have shortened the second moto at Millville when RC lapped the field Smile
500guy
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4/8/2018 8:04am
A person would think that since the race is timed now, 20 minutes plus a lap would be no big deal.

The Teams and riders would have to figure out how to make the machine last.

Only other solution is stop having races at open air stadiums that are known for regular rain fall.
Asimo
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4/8/2018 8:21am
B DUB 333 wrote:
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks...
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks and we're pros. I don't care how muddy, cold, dry, or foggy it is. We were robbed.
It wasnt that bad. I never burned up clutches either. And neither do GNCC or Enduro guys. I love mud. The worse it is the better.

Mud is where a decent B class Enduro guy could win SX main.
Asimo
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4/8/2018 8:23am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Not sure about shortening the motos but back in 94 I think ? They cancelled the second motos at Hangtown . There was basically a river...
Not sure about shortening the motos but back in 94 I think ? They cancelled the second motos at Hangtown . There was basically a river running across the track. I'll bet a lot of riders wished they would have shortened the second moto at Millville when RC lapped the field Smile
When RC lapped the field, everyone else should have learned a good lesson. RC can barely tough the ground, not sure he even could back then.

The Shop

Zoom
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4/8/2018 8:27am
es337 wrote:
how many minutes would an alta have won by last night? No wonder the oems are scared. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/08/254250/s1200_15338485_1829019364054592_7987389051609022464_n.jpg_ig_cache_key_MTQwNTk0MjE5MDU0MjE2MDAyOQ.jpg[/img]
how many minutes would an alta have won by last night? No wonder the oems are scared.



Battery would've lasted 5 minutes.
Would not have been a heavy load on the battery. You have to using a lot of throttle for the battery to get drained. Don't think the bikes used very much fuel last night...
TeamGreen
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4/8/2018 8:30am
1. A -SUPERCROSS TRACK- is not a GP course (for those comparing: a clutch gets ABUSED at SX).
2. How many bikes were smoking when they crossed the finish-line last night?
3. Are you mad, bro?
mx317
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4/8/2018 8:33am
B DUB 333 wrote:
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks...
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks and we're pros. I don't care how muddy, cold, dry, or foggy it is. We were robbed.
Asimo wrote:
It wasnt that bad. I never burned up clutches either. And neither do GNCC or Enduro guys. I love mud. The worse it is the better...
It wasnt that bad. I never burned up clutches either. And neither do GNCC or Enduro guys. I love mud. The worse it is the better.

Mud is where a decent B class Enduro guy could win SX main.
Wasn't that bad? You have to be joking or trolling with B DUB. When pro riders come off and say it was the worst race indoors and out they ever ran, it was bad. Before their time, Atlanta had a bad one when they raced in the Fulton County Stadium.
4/8/2018 8:34am
JB 19 wrote:
I wonder what the GNCC guys would think of these guys burning a clutch up in 10 minutes.....since they race 3 HOURS in the same conditions...
I wonder what the GNCC guys would think of these guys burning a clutch up in 10 minutes.....since they race 3 HOURS in the same conditions. For God's sake, you can't slip the clutch every second in a mud race. How many GP guys are laughing at this stuff?
All of them!
Moto88
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4/8/2018 8:35am
Crush wrote:
I really think they should find some deep sand from the area and make Seattle a sand SX race like Miami 89 every year. Would make...
I really think they should find some deep sand from the area and make Seattle a sand SX race like Miami 89 every year. Would make it weather proof, unique etc...
X2
Trevor91
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4/8/2018 8:48am
ky_savage wrote:
Seems that nobody is stating the obvious. They had a time slot for TV they needed and wanted to stay in and with those conditions, they...
Seems that nobody is stating the obvious. They had a time slot for TV they needed and wanted to stay in and with those conditions, they cut the mains down.
That doesnt make any sense at all. Its the same amount of time every week and the mains usually start around 12 midnight est for the west coast races. The 250 main was all but over by midnight and the 450 main around 12:30 instead of the usual 1am
ky_savage
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4/8/2018 9:11am
Trevor91 wrote:
That doesnt make any sense at all. Its the same amount of time every week and the mains usually start around 12 midnight est for the...
That doesnt make any sense at all. Its the same amount of time every week and the mains usually start around 12 midnight est for the west coast races. The 250 main was all but over by midnight and the 450 main around 12:30 instead of the usual 1am
Time slot plus bike carnage.
nobody949
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Laguna Niguel, CA US
4/8/2018 9:19am
B DUB 333 wrote:
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks...
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks and we're pros. I don't care how muddy, cold, dry, or foggy it is. We were robbed.
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno he could not make it up the hill/jump and past the finish line banner. Nothing on his part but why did they give him that? Is that cheating by AMA? I guess they do what they want.
FGR01
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4/8/2018 9:21am
Let's establish a few things here. Dirtbikes do not "burn" a clutch. You will never see clutch smoke coming out of a dirtbike. The clutch is enclosed in a case in an oil bath. Exactly where would clutch smoke be coming out? All the "smoke" we saw last night was steam from bikes overheating and pushing coolant out the radiator overflow. Yes, overworking the clutch and building up excess heat in the engine and the oil contributes to the bike overheating, but there is no clutch smoke coming out of the bike. The plates simply wear down and you reach a point where you have no play adjustment left to keep clamping pressure.
mx317
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4/8/2018 9:22am
nobody949 wrote:
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno...
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno he could not make it up the hill/jump and past the finish line banner. Nothing on his part but why did they give him that? Is that cheating by AMA? I guess they do what they want.
It was explained to you in the thread you started.
jeffro503
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4/8/2018 9:27am
B DUB 333 wrote:
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks...
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks and we're pros. I don't care how muddy, cold, dry, or foggy it is. We were robbed.
nobody949 wrote:
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno...
AMA does what they want, Reed never made it past the finish line again. Look at his face, he knew it happened again. Just like Ryno he could not make it up the hill/jump and past the finish line banner. Nothing on his part but why did they give him that? Is that cheating by AMA? I guess they do what they want.
Oh my god.....some of the replies in here. The transponder line is almost always at the base of the finish line ( Take off )jump. Reed hammered his bike while pushing it along , to get it over the line. That's where everyone's transponder register's the lap. After reading this thread.....my forehead is bruised from the amount of facepalms. Good lord!
Katoomey
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4/8/2018 9:30am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2018 9:36am
FGR01 wrote:
Let's establish a few things here. Dirtbikes do not "burn" a clutch. You will never see clutch smoke coming out of a dirtbike. The clutch is...
Let's establish a few things here. Dirtbikes do not "burn" a clutch. You will never see clutch smoke coming out of a dirtbike. The clutch is enclosed in a case in an oil bath. Exactly where would clutch smoke be coming out? All the "smoke" we saw last night was steam from bikes overheating and pushing coolant out the radiator overflow. Yes, overworking the clutch and building up excess heat in the engine and the oil contributes to the bike overheating, but there is no clutch smoke coming out of the bike. The plates simply wear down and you reach a point where you have no play adjustment left to keep clamping pressure.
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the breather is always routed with carb vents and comes out near the linkage. The radiator vents out just under the front of the engine.

burnt clutch fluid (like most oils) willbe bluish in color and vaporized coolant will be white in color.

...and when you see smoke from a clutch failure, that's the fluid being burned, not the fiber plates (which will burn as well- you know the smell.

and the reason you run out of adjustment is because the plates have EXPANDED from heat. not wore down.

where do you even come up with this shit? just make it up?

you don't know shit...so stop talking like you do.
APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 9:40am
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing...
I don't want to try and make comparisons but clutches seem to make it most often in a 3 hour mudder harescramble. Different styles of racing but end of the day it's still a dirt bike.
Still a dirt bike, but a completely different style of racing track and required techniques. If they were really that close, top hare scramble/offroad guys should be able to hop on to any supercross track and finish near the front of the pack each week......
APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 9:47am
jeffro503 wrote:
Oh my god.....some of the replies in here. The transponder line is almost always at the base of the finish line ( Take off )jump. Reed...
Oh my god.....some of the replies in here. The transponder line is almost always at the base of the finish line ( Take off )jump. Reed hammered his bike while pushing it along , to get it over the line. That's where everyone's transponder register's the lap. After reading this thread.....my forehead is bruised from the amount of facepalms. Good lord!
I thought that the AMA overturned a finish a few years ago where rider A crossed the sensor first by something like .001 but rider B crossed the "visual" finish line ahead and they gave the place to rider B. I think it was for the final qualifying position in an LCQ and one of the riders may have been Gavin Faith?
APLMAN99
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4/8/2018 10:01am
jeffro503 wrote:
Oh my god.....some of the replies in here. The transponder line is almost always at the base of the finish line ( Take off )jump. Reed...
Oh my god.....some of the replies in here. The transponder line is almost always at the base of the finish line ( Take off )jump. Reed hammered his bike while pushing it along , to get it over the line. That's where everyone's transponder register's the lap. After reading this thread.....my forehead is bruised from the amount of facepalms. Good lord!
The AMA has had at least 2 instances of the transponder line not being recognized as the finish line.

2012-Peick/Faith

http://pulpmx.com/2012/02/22/just-short-vol-7/

Mike Alessi-Hangtown 2005
resetjet
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4/8/2018 10:08am
Katoomey wrote:
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the...
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the breather is always routed with carb vents and comes out near the linkage. The radiator vents out just under the front of the engine.

burnt clutch fluid (like most oils) willbe bluish in color and vaporized coolant will be white in color.

...and when you see smoke from a clutch failure, that's the fluid being burned, not the fiber plates (which will burn as well- you know the smell.

and the reason you run out of adjustment is because the plates have EXPANDED from heat. not wore down.

where do you even come up with this shit? just make it up?

you don't know shit...so stop talking like you do.
Steam also disappears quickly, smoke lingers. I thing some of that smoke from reeds bike was oil smoke.....it just looked that way and since he was probably out of coolant it was likely just that. I have watched mechanics after a normal practice change the plates....hot and smokey. Too hot to handle by hand.....

I would like to know what the oil temp was in those bikes. You really gotta rev a bike to keep it moving in that crap. No airflow from the mud. Everyone cooked their engines in some way.
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 10:22am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2018 10:34am
B DUB 333 wrote:
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks...
8 minute main for the 250's 10 minutes for the 450's because it's muddy? Then they remove the whoops.... I thought these guys made big bucks and we're pros. I don't care how muddy, cold, dry, or foggy it is. We were robbed.
TimR wrote:
Biggest troll on vitalmx.
DonM wrote:
But he's only joking....Blink
To all the guys saying I'm trolling, look back, my "troll" posts were me taking jabs at the gp guys. You guys need to find a sense of humor. I quoted cairolli asking for bran for God's sake, that's a joke. I asked an honest question, I know you guys want to whip out your badges and make the bust..... put your capes away for the next mxdn post I make, I'll be promoting our guys again, I'm almost positive you guys must be French... that's another joke BTW, do you see that there? Keep taking jabs if you want, it a free country but know that most people enjoy humor. Remember when Justin Hill used my comment on his Instagram? He has a sense of humor.... Jesus......
kaptkaos
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4/8/2018 10:23am
Whatever, last night was pretty different, one a year is fine by me. They really should have smoothened the track even more. The big takeaway was no injuries so thats good.

I was pretty bored watching it to be honest. Makes me wonder why they even do this in open air stadiums and even more why Seattle has an open air stadium!
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 10:24am
Katoomey wrote:
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the...
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the breather is always routed with carb vents and comes out near the linkage. The radiator vents out just under the front of the engine.

burnt clutch fluid (like most oils) willbe bluish in color and vaporized coolant will be white in color.

...and when you see smoke from a clutch failure, that's the fluid being burned, not the fiber plates (which will burn as well- you know the smell.

and the reason you run out of adjustment is because the plates have EXPANDED from heat. not wore down.

where do you even come up with this shit? just make it up?

you don't know shit...so stop talking like you do.
This is what I thought as well, the clutch smoke was coming out of the engine breather tube
ACBraap
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4/8/2018 10:26am
bvm111 wrote:
I would assume the team managers had some input into the times... I doubt the ama fim just arbitrarily choose those times.
That’s kind of the point though. The ones paying to attend didn’t get a say.
omalley
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4/8/2018 10:27am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class.
There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later if memory serves.
B DUB 333
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4/8/2018 10:32am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
omalley wrote:
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class. There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later...
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class.
There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later if memory serves.
Your right, I don't remember hang town but I do remember the race where water was literally running over the race surface and the cancelled moto 2 or something like that
KennyT
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4/8/2018 10:49am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
omalley wrote:
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class. There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later...
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class.
There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later if memory serves.
Thanks for that. I can’t remember all this stuff.

There was some major rivers running across the track back at hangtown, also at the Nationals it can be a bitch to get rigs out of the park once the mid sets in.

Last nights race just seemed like a good old mudder. The track seemed to be holding up pretty good. I really enjoyed it and wish it would have gone on longer. I love seeing riders conquer brutal conditions and some of them did a hell of a job last night
YamahaJT1
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4/8/2018 10:54am
Katoomey wrote:
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the...
every bike ever made that has fluid inside of a case, has a breather, to allow for contraction and expansion of the fluid. every motorcycle...ever... the breather is always routed with carb vents and comes out near the linkage. The radiator vents out just under the front of the engine.

burnt clutch fluid (like most oils) willbe bluish in color and vaporized coolant will be white in color.

...and when you see smoke from a clutch failure, that's the fluid being burned, not the fiber plates (which will burn as well- you know the smell.

and the reason you run out of adjustment is because the plates have EXPANDED from heat. not wore down.

where do you even come up with this shit? just make it up?

you don't know shit...so stop talking like you do.
resetjet wrote:
Steam also disappears quickly, smoke lingers. I thing some of that smoke from reeds bike was oil smoke.....it just looked that way and since he was...
Steam also disappears quickly, smoke lingers. I thing some of that smoke from reeds bike was oil smoke.....it just looked that way and since he was probably out of coolant it was likely just that. I have watched mechanics after a normal practice change the plates....hot and smokey. Too hot to handle by hand.....

I would like to know what the oil temp was in those bikes. You really gotta rev a bike to keep it moving in that crap. No airflow from the mud. Everyone cooked their engines in some way.
This is what Vital is all about! Top Tech Tips and insight that is beyond the "ordinary". I adore this place! Happy Sunday.
jeffro503
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4/8/2018 11:01am
KennyT wrote:
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain? I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his...
Have they ever shortened the motos at a outdoor National due to rain?

I don’t get it...run the full program and if a rider fries his bike he should get a dnf. Racing has always been about saving your equipment as well as speed. No biggy for us on the couch but for the spectators at the event they got screwed
omalley wrote:
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class. There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later...
Hangtown ‘91...one moto each class.
There was another one that might’ve been the same (Budds Creek maybe?)-I remember there being mini-rivers running down the track, 2009-later if memory serves.
What track was it at the last national of the year , where the cancelled the race because the track actually flooded? Like 2 years in a row? Steel city? And another round where they cancelled the 2nd motos due to lightning. Thinking Southwick or Unadilla?

I'm glad they didn't cancel last night , but running an SX track is a lot different then the outdoor tracks.

And for those of you who said " they are the big dogs and make a lot of money "......how much do you think it cost the privateer's and lower budget teams last night? There were bikes that basically got destroyed , and dudes on a shoe string budget just did more damage to their equipment in one race.....then what a normal 4 - 6 rounds would have.

Just be glad you ain't flipping the bill.
TeamGreen
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4/8/2018 11:04am
I think I'll be referring to last night's race as SuperEndurocross.

Post a reply to: We were robbed by the AMA tonight

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