Was last week long overdue or an upset of epic proportions?

freebroctickle wrote:

There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated...

There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated A1 before that.

What about those guys? Why is Webb so much more deserving of our hype than they are? By the numbers, Barcia and Baggett both have shown far more actual promise in their 450 careers than Webb has. Before this win, Webb had one lone podium, while Barcia and Baggett have both scored quite a few.

Is it his personality? The Aldon Baker factor? I'm not sure what is it about Webb that has earned him this devoted and cultish following. But I am pretty sure he'll be tucked back away mid-pack getting lapped by Eli Tomac, Marv and his pal Ken Roczen next week.

Chris_Cooksey wrote:

Webb is different though, he is in only in his third 450 season. This is the type of win that sparks a changing of the guard...

Webb is different though, he is in only in his third 450 season. This is the type of win that sparks a changing of the guard. His win was on a night with three main events, flukes happen once not on triple crown nights.

bama205 wrote:

What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in...

What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in the form of an open letter?

Derek Harris wrote:

Then why is the 250 - so successful The yzf to me looks just fine - some things are far more logical - gas tank placement...

Then why is the 250 - so successful

The yzf to me looks just fine - some things are far more logical - gas tank placement means over the course of the moto the weight bias DOESN'T change much.

The downdraft intake is obviously better for power.

And the bike - for all it's flaws - isn't "that bad" by any metric you can measure. I'd say worse bikes have won races...and probably titles.

I personally think in the USA - yamaha has an old staff at factory yamaha that isn't "hip" and doesn't jive with the youngsters that make up our sport from the youngsters perspective. When a kid is telling you the reason he sucked is the bike - or some dumb excuse you've heard from every rider under the sun for the last 30 years in the sport who aren't winning - and your telling him to toughen up and get the job done he is paid to do - but he has no respect for you because they dont know you or your past etc...

things dont work.


STAR has a young enthusiastic staff - from the mechanics to the manager - that are still passionate at a level what could be called insanity. They are likely more willing to be sympathetic to complaints and they work harder and with passion and fire for their rider because that's what you'd do if you are young and new to the pro ranks as a mechanic and filled with passion to go places.

When your pushing 50 - been around and seen it all - making a good solid income but not near the money the rider you work for is who thinks his shit doesn't stink, been on championship winning efforts with greats such as MC or reed or bubba at L&M or those before that - and know without a shadow of a doubt the data says your riders is lying to you about what he did or what he says the bike did - you don't have much ear for sympathy.

Especially when you know that rider isn't training as hard as the guys he is loosing to - or he is distracted by whatever it is etc..

Couple that with a nearly dying sport - where sales numbers are low, money to go racing is nearly impossible to find, winning championships doesn't move the sales needle much - it's hard to say yamaha should rock the boat to go "all in" and spend money to revamp - when they wont make money.

I do not KNOW - but I truly BELIEVE all said mx sales in the USA dont cover the cost of the race teams in the usa and haven't since 08.

The sport never recovered - I think total offroad unit sales is like 70k a year in units - and thats not MX specifically - and thats ALL oems combined. I even think quads are included in that....


I'd be surprised if suzuki actually sells the homologation numbers right now.

JeepnMike wrote:

I don't know man. At A1 in the worst possible conditions, he came from basically last to finish 5th, and the last few laps, he was...

I don't know man. At A1 in the worst possible conditions, he came from basically last to finish 5th, and the last few laps, he was hauling them mail.

I agree with downard254, this season is awesome so far.. No idea who is going to win the next round kind of awesome.

freebroctickle wrote:

There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated...

There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated A1 before that.

What about those guys? Why is Webb so much more deserving of our hype than they are? By the numbers, Barcia and Baggett both have shown far more actual promise in their 450 careers than Webb has. Before this win, Webb had one lone podium, while Barcia and Baggett have both scored quite a few.

Is it his personality? The Aldon Baker factor? I'm not sure what is it about Webb that has earned him this devoted and cultish following. But I am pretty sure he'll be tucked back away mid-pack getting lapped by Eli Tomac, Marv and his pal Ken Roczen next week.

Derek Harris wrote:

Then why is the 250 - so successful The yzf to me looks just fine - some things are far more logical - gas tank placement...

Then why is the 250 - so successful

The yzf to me looks just fine - some things are far more logical - gas tank placement means over the course of the moto the weight bias DOESN'T change much.

The downdraft intake is obviously better for power.

And the bike - for all it's flaws - isn't "that bad" by any metric you can measure. I'd say worse bikes have won races...and probably titles.

I personally think in the USA - yamaha has an old staff at factory yamaha that isn't "hip" and doesn't jive with the youngsters that make up our sport from the youngsters perspective. When a kid is telling you the reason he sucked is the bike - or some dumb excuse you've heard from every rider under the sun for the last 30 years in the sport who aren't winning - and your telling him to toughen up and get the job done he is paid to do - but he has no respect for you because they dont know you or your past etc...

things dont work.


STAR has a young enthusiastic staff - from the mechanics to the manager - that are still passionate at a level what could be called insanity. They are likely more willing to be sympathetic to complaints and they work harder and with passion and fire for their rider because that's what you'd do if you are young and new to the pro ranks as a mechanic and filled with passion to go places.

When your pushing 50 - been around and seen it all - making a good solid income but not near the money the rider you work for is who thinks his shit doesn't stink, been on championship winning efforts with greats such as MC or reed or bubba at L&M or those before that - and know without a shadow of a doubt the data says your riders is lying to you about what he did or what he says the bike did - you don't have much ear for sympathy.

Especially when you know that rider isn't training as hard as the guys he is loosing to - or he is distracted by whatever it is etc..

Couple that with a nearly dying sport - where sales numbers are low, money to go racing is nearly impossible to find, winning championships doesn't move the sales needle much - it's hard to say yamaha should rock the boat to go "all in" and spend money to revamp - when they wont make money.

I do not KNOW - but I truly BELIEVE all said mx sales in the USA dont cover the cost of the race teams in the usa and haven't since 08.

The sport never recovered - I think total offroad unit sales is like 70k a year in units - and thats not MX specifically - and thats ALL oems combined. I even think quads are included in that....


I'd be surprised if suzuki actually sells the homologation numbers right now.

FGR01 wrote:

All of this is very insightful. Only thing I will add, the YZ's, in my opinion, have drastically compromised ergos and handling for the sake of...

All of this is very insightful.

Only thing I will add, the YZ's, in my opinion, have drastically compromised ergos and handling for the sake of power. The reverse cylinder and downdraft intake obviously make power but the layout of the bike is compromised for it. Laugh if you will about Hondas twin mufflers for mass centralization but you have to look at that huge empty hole in the middle of the YZs and just say WTF? And the layout of the bike with the cylinder pointing backwards and the tank under the seat makes them so damn tall. I think they are basically pointless for anyone with an inseam less than 32-34 inches.

BikeGuy321 wrote:

The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...

The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.

Chris_Cooksey wrote:

Just want to point out I called this one.... Even a broken clock is right twice a day.