Was last week long overdue or an upset of epic proportions?

Chris_Cooksey
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2019 1:34pm
I layed out Webb’s 450 careeer in this weeks article, but I still don’t know if I should be surprised Webb won or surprised it took this long? Thoughts?

https://www.vitalmx.com/features/Cooksey-Straight-To-The-Point-Who-s-Ir…
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jonesaustin
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jonesaustin 1/21/2019 4:57pm
1/21/2019 4:57pm
Webb has the confidence back. he remembers his 250 self in the current moment now; A2 was all that was needed. It's a stacked field so I don't anticipate owning the field entirely, but he won't back down and will keep charging no matter the circumstance off the gate, and that's all mental. that makes him dangerous to the competition. He's an emotional rider like Reed, but now that he's proven it to himself, he's going to make the series a whole lot more interesting. Can't wait for next rounds.
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BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 1/21/2019 5:14pm
1/21/2019 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2019 5:19pm
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
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freebroctickle 1/21/2019 5:17pm
1/21/2019 5:17pm
There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated A1 before that.

What about those guys? Why is Webb so much more deserving of our hype than they are? By the numbers, Barcia and Baggett both have shown far more actual promise in their 450 careers than Webb has. Before this win, Webb had one lone podium, while Barcia and Baggett have both scored quite a few.

Is it his personality? The Aldon Baker factor? I'm not sure what is it about Webb that has earned him this devoted and cultish following. But I am pretty sure he'll be tucked back away mid-pack getting lapped by Eli Tomac, Marv and his pal Ken Roczen next week.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 1/21/2019 5:18pm
1/21/2019 5:18pm
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
Calling it now, Webb wins Oakland!
Not sure about that. He looked spent after the first 12 minute main. Personally, I think if that first main event had been the regular 20 minutes +1 lap, I don't think he would have won.
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jonesaustin
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jonesaustin 1/21/2019 5:19pm
1/21/2019 5:19pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2019 5:21pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
even without experience on the bike, imo it was clear just from looking at this bike from the moment they switched the cylinder backwards (which was a radical idea and I applaud Yamaha for that, because we need more evolution), with the body work (which is more than an aesthetic) it just doesn't have a race-forward look. a lot of people will dismiss the ability to eyeball something like that from the sidelines, but an mx bike should have a certain attitude in its look, the Yamahas don't have that, so it's no surprise to me it hasn't been very successful. the new Hondas got it right, and the new KX450 is close.
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downard254
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downard254 1/21/2019 5:23pm
1/21/2019 5:23pm
I haven’t a clue where Coop will wind up next week, or the rest of the season, but I like how the season is unfolding this year and I’m just hoping it continues. The more new faces up front the better. I want to see the entire top 10 in points this year be within 15 points of each other all the way to Vegas.
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cameron96
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cameron96 1/21/2019 5:24pm
1/21/2019 5:24pm
Webb on the podium this weekend. Even if he gets a bad start I see him going back to his 250 days of coming through the pack.

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong
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Falcon
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Falcon 1/21/2019 5:29pm
1/21/2019 5:29pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one.
You could say Everts is the only guy who won A TON of races on one, maybe... like more than 20 or something.
brapgod69
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brapgod69 1/21/2019 5:33pm
1/21/2019 5:33pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2019 6:30pm
You said something about the Webb/Roczen social media drama. Hoe/headache. I got it. I don’t recall Webb saying anything on social media or in general on the topic? The golden child Rozcen started that and Webb never said anything back, unless I’m mistaken.
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Track and Trail 1/21/2019 5:35pm
1/21/2019 5:35pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2019 5:38pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
jonesaustin wrote:
even without experience on the bike, imo it was clear just from looking at this bike from the moment they switched the cylinder backwards (which was...
even without experience on the bike, imo it was clear just from looking at this bike from the moment they switched the cylinder backwards (which was a radical idea and I applaud Yamaha for that, because we need more evolution), with the body work (which is more than an aesthetic) it just doesn't have a race-forward look. a lot of people will dismiss the ability to eyeball something like that from the sidelines, but an mx bike should have a certain attitude in its look, the Yamahas don't have that, so it's no surprise to me it hasn't been very successful. the new Hondas got it right, and the new KX450 is close.
Yeah man. That's why I'm a Red Arrow fan. Forwardest racer there ever was.
gsxr6
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gsxr6 1/21/2019 5:37pm
1/21/2019 5:37pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
Falcon wrote:
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one. You could say Everts is the...
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one.
You could say Everts is the only guy who won A TON of races on one, maybe... like more than 20 or something.
Without a single championship in the 450 class since Rc went yellow, the crf is arguably more snakebit.
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BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 1/21/2019 5:38pm
1/21/2019 5:38pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
Falcon wrote:
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one. You could say Everts is the...
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one.
You could say Everts is the only guy who won A TON of races on one, maybe... like more than 20 or something.
Weren't all of Reeds championships with Yamaha on YZ 250's ?
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Track and Trail 1/21/2019 5:45pm
1/21/2019 5:45pm
None of the hyped guys have won through three rounds in a row, and that's with four legit guys worth hyping. I can't remember the last time this has happened in the big class. The year of the underdog(s)?
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 1/21/2019 5:47pm
1/21/2019 5:47pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
Falcon wrote:
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one. You could say Everts is the...
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one.
You could say Everts is the only guy who won A TON of races on one, maybe... like more than 20 or something.
BikeGuy321 wrote:
Weren't all of Reeds championships with Yamaha on YZ 250's ?
YZ 250 2004 SX
YZF 450 2008 SX
RMZ 450 2009 MX
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norcal racer
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norcal racer 1/21/2019 5:47pm
1/21/2019 5:47pm
He could be mid pack next, but the class is so deep it’s not a bad thing, we’ll see him fight for wins again this season
Stoneface
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Stoneface 1/21/2019 5:57pm
1/21/2019 5:57pm
BikeGuy321 wrote:
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the...
The Yamaha 450 is snakebit at the pro level. Stefan Everts was the only guy who ever won a lot of races on one, and the FIM bikes are more like works bikes compared to AMA.

Chassis and ergos are most important when you're gonna have a fully built motor and trick suspension. I think MOST people would rank Yamaha near the bottom in ergos/comfort if they tried all the brands. The blue bikes have a ton of power, but so do all the other brands' race bikes.
Falcon wrote:
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one. You could say Everts is the...
Chad Reed and James Stewart both won SX championships on YZ450s, and Grant Langston won an outdoor title on one.
You could say Everts is the only guy who won A TON of races on one, maybe... like more than 20 or something.
Romain Febvre looked great on his for the 2015 MXGP World Title.


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Chris_Cooksey 1/21/2019 6:21pm
1/21/2019 6:21pm
freebroctickle wrote:
There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated...
There's no denying that Webb destroyed A2 and earned his win. But there's also no denying that Baggett crushed Glendale the week prior, and Barcia annihilated A1 before that.

What about those guys? Why is Webb so much more deserving of our hype than they are? By the numbers, Barcia and Baggett both have shown far more actual promise in their 450 careers than Webb has. Before this win, Webb had one lone podium, while Barcia and Baggett have both scored quite a few.

Is it his personality? The Aldon Baker factor? I'm not sure what is it about Webb that has earned him this devoted and cultish following. But I am pretty sure he'll be tucked back away mid-pack getting lapped by Eli Tomac, Marv and his pal Ken Roczen next week.
Webb is different though, he is in only in his third 450 season. This is the type of win that sparks a changing of the guard. His win was on a night with three main events, flukes happen once not on triple crown nights.
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Chris_Cooksey 1/21/2019 6:23pm
1/21/2019 6:23pm
Track and Trail wrote:
None of the hyped guys have won through three rounds in a row, and that's with four legit guys worth hyping. I can't remember the last...
None of the hyped guys have won through three rounds in a row, and that's with four legit guys worth hyping. I can't remember the last time this has happened in the big class. The year of the underdog(s)?
I don’t think it has ever happened. Also love the pic of Donny Schmidt on your profile.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 1/21/2019 6:27pm
1/21/2019 6:27pm
I think he will back this win up sooner than later and He is a lot more comfortable on this KTM
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BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 1/21/2019 6:28pm
1/21/2019 6:28pm
I think Webb is the real deal and he'll be on the podium more consistently with this confidence boost. He doesn't seem to have the Tomac/Herlings warp speed where he can make up a bunch of time per lap, but he's good at the holeshot to runaway victory like Kenny.
Dust601
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Dust601 1/21/2019 6:33pm
1/21/2019 6:33pm
I think that Webb like 90 percent of field probably depends on his starts
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bama205
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bama205 1/21/2019 7:16pm
1/21/2019 7:16pm
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in the form of an open letter?
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Chris_Cooksey 1/21/2019 7:25pm
1/21/2019 7:25pm
bama205 wrote:
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in...
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in the form of an open letter?
What are you talking about? Please elaborate.
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-MAVERICK- 1/21/2019 7:30pm
1/21/2019 7:30pm
bama205 wrote:
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in...
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in the form of an open letter?
LOL. Hasn't posted under that name since that thread.

For those wondering.

https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/OPEN-LETTER-TO-COOPER-WEBB…
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 1/21/2019 7:30pm
1/21/2019 7:30pm
bama205 wrote:
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in...
What happened to that guy who had vital sex with him? Does anyone remember that? It was so creepy and weird. I think it was in the form of an open letter?
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
What are you talking about? Please elaborate.
Just did. Click link above. Lol.
speed_racer
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speed_racer 1/21/2019 7:32pm
1/21/2019 7:32pm
I expected Cooper to win round 1 and 2. I do not understand why everyone hasn't picked him to win everything.
My week is going to be sweet.
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Derek Harris 1/21/2019 8:15pm
1/21/2019 8:15pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2019 8:17pm
jonesaustin wrote:
even without experience on the bike, imo it was clear just from looking at this bike from the moment they switched the cylinder backwards (which was...
even without experience on the bike, imo it was clear just from looking at this bike from the moment they switched the cylinder backwards (which was a radical idea and I applaud Yamaha for that, because we need more evolution), with the body work (which is more than an aesthetic) it just doesn't have a race-forward look. a lot of people will dismiss the ability to eyeball something like that from the sidelines, but an mx bike should have a certain attitude in its look, the Yamahas don't have that, so it's no surprise to me it hasn't been very successful. the new Hondas got it right, and the new KX450 is close.
Then why is the 250 - so successful

The yzf to me looks just fine - some things are far more logical - gas tank placement means over the course of the moto the weight bias DOESN'T change much.

The downdraft intake is obviously better for power.

And the bike - for all it's flaws - isn't "that bad" by any metric you can measure. I'd say worse bikes have won races...and probably titles.

I personally think in the USA - yamaha has an old staff at factory yamaha that isn't "hip" and doesn't jive with the youngsters that make up our sport from the youngsters perspective. When a kid is telling you the reason he sucked is the bike - or some dumb excuse you've heard from every rider under the sun for the last 30 years in the sport who aren't winning - and your telling him to toughen up and get the job done he is paid to do - but he has no respect for you because they dont know you or your past etc...

things dont work.


STAR has a young enthusiastic staff - from the mechanics to the manager - that are still passionate at a level what could be called insanity. They are likely more willing to be sympathetic to complaints and they work harder and with passion and fire for their rider because that's what you'd do if you are young and new to the pro ranks as a mechanic and filled with passion to go places.

When your pushing 50 - been around and seen it all - making a good solid income but not near the money the rider you work for is who thinks his shit doesn't stink, been on championship winning efforts with greats such as MC or reed or bubba at L&M or those before that - and know without a shadow of a doubt the data says your riders is lying to you about what he did or what he says the bike did - you don't have much ear for sympathy.

Especially when you know that rider isn't training as hard as the guys he is loosing to - or he is distracted by whatever it is etc..

Couple that with a nearly dying sport - where sales numbers are low, money to go racing is nearly impossible to find, winning championships doesn't move the sales needle much - it's hard to say yamaha should rock the boat to go "all in" and spend money to revamp - when they wont make money.

I do not KNOW - but I truly BELIEVE all said mx sales in the USA dont cover the cost of the race teams in the usa and haven't since 08.

The sport never recovered - I think total offroad unit sales is like 70k a year in units - and thats not MX specifically - and thats ALL oems combined. I even think quads are included in that....


I'd be surprised if suzuki actually sells the homologation numbers right now.



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Track and Trail 1/21/2019 8:29pm
1/21/2019 8:29pm
Track and Trail wrote:
None of the hyped guys have won through three rounds in a row, and that's with four legit guys worth hyping. I can't remember the last...
None of the hyped guys have won through three rounds in a row, and that's with four legit guys worth hyping. I can't remember the last time this has happened in the big class. The year of the underdog(s)?
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
I don’t think it has ever happened. Also love the pic of Donny Schmidt on your profile.
Donny still inspires me and plenty more people. Glad you noticed the pic. Long live motocross!
JeepnMike
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JeepnMike 1/21/2019 8:49pm
1/21/2019 8:49pm
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
Calling it now, Webb wins Oakland!
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Not sure about that. He looked spent after the first 12 minute main. Personally, I think if that first main event had been the regular 20...
Not sure about that. He looked spent after the first 12 minute main. Personally, I think if that first main event had been the regular 20 minutes +1 lap, I don't think he would have won.
I don't know man. At A1 in the worst possible conditions, he came from basically last to finish 5th, and the last few laps, he was hauling them mail.

I agree with downard254, this season is awesome so far.. No idea who is going to win the next round kind of awesome.Cool
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