Wait! Hold the phone DC

Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 1:56am
Weren't the challenges from the OEM's about making a 350F about how they couldn't go and spend money to redo the motor bla bla bla???? Ummm, Yamaha just did. so another myth buster show solved again. And this was all by 2010. Remember, they said they couldn't do it by then???

Can you mention this as an example of roadblocking, when you present our arguments about 2 strokes please :-) Also, is there emails we can send to the board of directors at Pro Ama? Guessing a million letters might get their attention ;-)


Summarizing for DC:
1. 450f's not going anywhere, and most of us understand that is set in stone. They are more expensive, but we understand that atleast they are fairly reliable. We would just like the noise knocked down on them.
2. 250f's are not reliable, especially when modified.
3. 4 stroke parts are more expensive than 2 stroke 250's. Thus, when new riders come into the sport, blow the used 250f, and have to spend $2,000 to fix it. We just lost another person to the sport.
4. 4 stroke noise has caused track closures.
5. 250f modded against a stock engine 250 2 stroke are roughly going to be the same power output. Thus, the privateer will have a fair chance to ride and practice on a cheaper bike and it won't cost them to mod the motors etc.
6. If that is not a direction that OEM's are for, atleast make it fair (example:MX7MX) and figure out a real fair cc for both 4 stroke and 2 stroke. Maybe 300cc for the open class and 150cc for the proam class. But in those cases, the 2 strokes can be modded.
7. As you stated DC, the amateur races you still didn't see the 2 stroke smoke the 4 strokes for exactly what we have been saying. The modded 4 strokes will still beat the stock 250 2 stroke.
8. Changing the rules to allow the privateers to race the stock 250 2 strokes will not cost the OEM's like previously made excuses. IE: The lead ban. This rule has nothing to do with cost, because riders can ride bikes that are already out on the street. Since the stock rule would be in place, it wouldn't affect the R&D of the OEM's or the race teams. Thus, wouldn't cost them a dime.


In closing. Most of us here are in agreement about the cost of doing nothing, is the cost of our sport. We are losing riders at an excelerated speed. We are losing tracks at an excelerated speed. The OEM's and the racing products teams pockets seem to be the only reason we see that there would be any hesitation at all from Pro Ama. But we all feel that they are short term sighted and can't see that by going down this road they will lose future sales from riders who came and went. OEM's will lose because people can no longer afford the bikes every year. Finally that our sport will suffer in the pockets of others. Kind of like our economy is suffering from some greedy people right now. Maybe they could learn something by watching what happens when greed rules and common sense is thrown out the window. Thanks from all of us 2 stroke fans.
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davis224
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9/22/2009 5:12am
The 2010 450 design was probably started 5 years ago or so. They didn't dream this up after they signed bubba and sent it down the production line.
9/22/2009 5:33am
Yes, but their excuse was tooling etc. The actual thought of a motor could have been made with a 350F size. Same bike, just a 350F. Just because a thought is made doesn't mean production has been started.
wardy
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9/22/2009 5:43am
Na what will happen is the OEM's will stay thier course. Supported by the rules until there is a few "teams" and no one else on the starting line. Then a few "amatuers" will be recruited from the "crowd" so they can have a full gate!

some where that has happened before but not sure where????

the sport we call MX will have some hard times to come. pricey bikes and parts. 6000 classes and hanging out at the track from 7am til 8pm. lack of new riders coming into the sport due to the lead ban and cost.

without good 50cc class of riders in 2010. the pro ranks will suffer in 2020. the entry level classes are suffering big time right now and that should be the major focus of the industry.

The Shop

ehr400
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9/22/2009 5:52am
I have quite a few friends already that are on temporary hiatus due to the amount of money to fix their 250f's. BTW they are looking into going back to 250 smokers. As well as myself.
Cygnus
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9/22/2009 5:53am
1st #96 AADEN VEAZIE - POL
LOVELAND, CO 1st 1st 20
2nd #707 MASON CLARK - LEM
WESTMINSTER, CO 3rd 2nd 17
3rd #56 TJ PERKINS - COB
THORTON, CO 2nd 3rd 14
4th #51 BRONSON MCCLURE - COB
ARVADA, CO 4th 4th 12
5th #55 ANDREW "CADE" BRITT - COB
HIGHLANDS RANCH, CO 5th 5th 11
6th #101 TYLER LONG - COB
BOULDER, CO 6th 6th 10
7th #471 LOGAN LAUFFER - COB
RIFLE, CO 7th 7th 9
8th #105 TYLER ALDOR - COB
ARVADA, CO 8th 8th 8
9th #21 TRENTON HARRIS - KTM
THORTON, CO 10th 9th 7
10th #306 EVAN KEASLING - KTM
ARVADA, CO 9th 10th 6
11th #60 JOHN DOUGLAS - COB
LITLETON, CO 12th 11th 5
12th #121 CAMERON HARRIS - KTM
THORTON, CO 11th 12th 4
13th #777 TRENTON CHENOWETH - COB
AKRON, CO 13th 14th 3
14th #517 CLAYTON GREEN - KTM
BRIGHTON, CO 14th DNF 2
15th #100 CANYON SHOPE - KTM
PARACHUTE, CO DNS 13th 1
Back to Main Results Menu


No shortage of 50 riders around here. If you can't afford it get the hell out.
Cygnus
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9/22/2009 6:23am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2009 6:23am
Here is our other .org racing the same weekend. If they all show up for the interstate challenge this weekend and the next we should have almost full gates.


50cc (Class 4) - Class Finish Positions Points for this class
Overall Nbr Brand Name Hometown Moto 1 Moto 2 Points Earned
1 #17 HON JAYLEND MC CARTY COLO. SPRINGS, CO 1 1 33
2 #68 HON COOPER KEVWITCH LITTLETON, CO 3 2 30
3 #11 YAM BRADY MAC KINNON CANON CITY, CO 2 3 28
4 #7 HON TONI FERNANDEZ PUEBLO, CO 4 4 26
5 #20 HON HUNTER RODVOLD ARVADA, CO 5 5 24
6 #369 HON CHANCE GLASER COLO. SPRINGS, CO 6 6 23
7 #14 HON MEGAN ZAWACKI BENNETT, CO 7 7 22
8 #88 HON KARISTA RITCHIE COLO. SPRINGS, CO 8 9 21
9 #239 HON DYLAN BARNES-1 , 11 8 20
10 #49 HON SHEPARD RODVOLD ELIZABETH, CO 10 10 18
11 #73 YAM JENNIFER OLIVIERI-KNOX PUEBLO, CO 9 11 18
12 #66 HON JACOB GRIMES PARKER, CO 12 12 17
DPW
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9/22/2009 7:17am
oh jeez not this 350 crude again....
9/22/2009 7:40am
DPW wrote:
oh jeez not this 350 crude again....
No DPW, (by the way long time), not about the 350F, just about the example that the OEM's give excuses and we want the 250t vs 250f. If you read the whole discussion, we know the 450f isn't getting axed. But the 250t should be allowed, and we won't accept excuses this time.
9/22/2009 7:46am
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
Cygnus
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9/22/2009 7:57am
2 strokes aren't coming back and the sooner you guys get it the better. It's a waste of bandwidth. Buy yourselfs a CR500AF if you don't already have one and move on.
9/22/2009 8:02am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:17am
Working on Emails as well. Please send letters asap to get things done. No more excuses. 250f modded vs stock 250 2 stroke. AMA Pro Racing president CEO Roger Edmondson... AMA rule book? Roy Janson.

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9/22/2009 9:40am
Cygnus wrote:
2 strokes aren't coming back and the sooner you guys get it the better. It's a waste of bandwidth. Buy yourselfs a CR500AF if you don't...
2 strokes aren't coming back and the sooner you guys get it the better. It's a waste of bandwidth. Buy yourselfs a CR500AF if you don't already have one and move on.
Funny, that's exactly what they told us on the TV show Jericho. We successfully got another season out of CBS.
Tiki
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9/22/2009 9:58am
SPYGUY
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9/22/2009 10:38am
Dear Mr. Forslyk,

In case you missed the memo, in most racing organizations now, AMATEURS CAN RACE 250 vs 250!

If people want to race two strokes, NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM!
9/22/2009 10:54am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2009 11:00am
And in case you aren't smart enough to read what is going on. It's about the Pro class. Until the pro's race them, the bikes won't be made by every manufacture. Just as an FYI, I did speak to someone high at Proama, and they are listening. So it is showing signs of working.
PaleBlue
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9/22/2009 11:10am
In motorcycle sports Honda gets want Honda wants and currently thats the complete erradication of two strokes. They have nearly completed that objective! Stop buying ANY of their products and you might just get somewhere.
sc961
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9/22/2009 11:25am
No shortage of 50 riders around here. If you can't afford it get the hell out. Lots of people are taking your advice.

Maybe not at the race you have listed or some of the am nats, but take a look around across the US at the local tracks.

Measure the numbers 10 years ago, 5 years ago and today. Let me know what you find. They are down today in comparison where I ride.

Do the same with the big bike classes.

We are being priced out of the sport. $8000 purchase price, and $1500 rebuilds... I've had to rebuild 3ea 450 motors and 2ea 250 motors in the past 5 seasons. That's another bike in most cases. If those would have been two strokes, the cost would have been 80% less and most of the failures wouldn't have occurred.

The manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot by not dealing with sound issues ahead of the curve, and doing away with the two strokes.

We just got rid of one of our 450's and I'm looking for a 250 2 stroke to replace it with...
mooch
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9/22/2009 11:42am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2009 11:43am
Spyguy, I'm thinking SPY would be a bit upset that their company name is belittled when you make silly posts like the one above. SURELY you're not affiliated with SPY or they woulda canned your azz by now.
level
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9/22/2009 11:46am
Build it and they will come....
If they build a 350 that will be the bike of choice I believe for pretty much everyone. Then you can just have a pro amatuer class(like the 250fs now-be for guys with less than 3 years experience) and a pro class and everybody runs the same displacement. I love the 250f but not quite enough power but so nimble and fun and I love the 450f because it does have good power but too much and is still little heavy. 350 seems like a good mix.

Just build the damn 350 already.
BobbyM
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9/22/2009 11:46am
davis224 wrote:
The 2010 450 design was probably started 5 years ago or so. They didn't dream this up after they signed bubba and sent it down the...
The 2010 450 design was probably started 5 years ago or so. They didn't dream this up after they signed bubba and sent it down the production line.
bingo...a total redesign of a motor can easily take an average of 5 years from paper to mold and they may be working on a 350 version right now for all we know.
dirtman1
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9/22/2009 11:56am
I wouldn't hold your breath for anything new from the OEM's. The economy has put a strangle hold on anything new. like the above post stated this was set in motion a few years back (the new yamaha 450) in a much more stable economy. Anything but Bold New Graphics would be a huge surprise (a 350cc would be awesome but I just don't see it any time soon). They are holding on for dear life just like you and I.

9/22/2009 12:18pm
As an fyi, remember. The 350F was not suppose to go into the rulebook until 2011. Thus, the 5 years that you guys speak of. But they said they couldn't do it. So again, myth busted.
RuFfRyDaH
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9/22/2009 12:22pm
ktm is going to let a 350 run in europe next year...sooo ktm can
ProMed
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9/22/2009 1:10pm
PaleBlue wrote:
In motorcycle sports Honda gets want Honda wants and currently thats the complete erradication of two strokes. They have nearly completed that objective! Stop buying ANY...
In motorcycle sports Honda gets want Honda wants and currently thats the complete erradication of two strokes. They have nearly completed that objective! Stop buying ANY of their products and you might just get somewhere.
Shirley, you can't be serious.
MX7MX
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9/22/2009 1:21pm
Cygnus wrote:
1st #96 AADEN VEAZIE - POL LOVELAND, CO 1st 1st 20 2nd #707 MASON CLARK - LEM WESTMINSTER, CO 3rd 2nd 17 3rd #56 TJ PERKINS...
1st #96 AADEN VEAZIE - POL
LOVELAND, CO 1st 1st 20
2nd #707 MASON CLARK - LEM
WESTMINSTER, CO 3rd 2nd 17
3rd #56 TJ PERKINS - COB
THORTON, CO 2nd 3rd 14
4th #51 BRONSON MCCLURE - COB
ARVADA, CO 4th 4th 12
5th #55 ANDREW "CADE" BRITT - COB
HIGHLANDS RANCH, CO 5th 5th 11
6th #101 TYLER LONG - COB
BOULDER, CO 6th 6th 10
7th #471 LOGAN LAUFFER - COB
RIFLE, CO 7th 7th 9
8th #105 TYLER ALDOR - COB
ARVADA, CO 8th 8th 8
9th #21 TRENTON HARRIS - KTM
THORTON, CO 10th 9th 7
10th #306 EVAN KEASLING - KTM
ARVADA, CO 9th 10th 6
11th #60 JOHN DOUGLAS - COB
LITLETON, CO 12th 11th 5
12th #121 CAMERON HARRIS - KTM
THORTON, CO 11th 12th 4
13th #777 TRENTON CHENOWETH - COB
AKRON, CO 13th 14th 3
14th #517 CLAYTON GREEN - KTM
BRIGHTON, CO 14th DNF 2
15th #100 CANYON SHOPE - KTM
PARACHUTE, CO DNS 13th 1
Back to Main Results Menu


No shortage of 50 riders around here. If you can't afford it get the hell out.
Amen brother!!!
MX7MX
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9/22/2009 1:22pm
Racer X asked Chad and James both recently 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Both said 4 stroke. There you go. The riders have spoken.
Gotta love it!!!
MX7MX
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9/22/2009 1:24pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Dear Mr. Forslyk, In case you missed the memo, in most racing organizations now, AMATEURS CAN RACE 250 vs 250! If people want to race two...
Dear Mr. Forslyk,

In case you missed the memo, in most racing organizations now, AMATEURS CAN RACE 250 vs 250!

If people want to race two strokes, NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM!
your right, noone is stopping them. A 125 can be raced in the 250F class, and the 250T can be raced in the 450F class. Nobody says that you can't!
SPYGUY
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9/22/2009 1:25pm
And in case you aren't smart enough to read what is going on. It's about the Pro class. Until the pro's race them, the bikes won't...
And in case you aren't smart enough to read what is going on. It's about the Pro class. Until the pro's race them, the bikes won't be made by every manufacture. Just as an FYI, I did speak to someone high at Proama, and they are listening. So it is showing signs of working.
The way to get every manufacturer to start making them again is to get consumer demand up. If there is enough demand, manufacturers will produce them. It's pretty simple, really.


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