WP Shock Bladder Conversion - Worth it?

Justin345
Profile picture for user Justin345
Posts
644
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Southern MD, MD US
Justin345
Edited Date/Time 7/28/2020 6:37am
Can anyone that's done the bladder shock conversion on a new model WP shock (2015.5+ SXF) comment on if it's worth it or not? From what I've heard, it reduces stiction and makes it easier to service, but couldn't find many reviews on real world performance gain.
|
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
jeffro503 9/12/2017 9:26am
9/12/2017 9:26am
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 - 7 minutes....even quicker on hot days. Had FC do their magic + replacing the piston canister with the bladder conversion.

Night and day for me. Hope that helps.
3
Justin345
Profile picture for user Justin345
Posts
644
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Southern MD, MD US
Justin345 9/12/2017 9:53am
9/12/2017 9:53am
jeffro503 wrote:
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 -...
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 - 7 minutes....even quicker on hot days. Had FC do their magic + replacing the piston canister with the bladder conversion.

Night and day for me. Hope that helps.
Thanks, Jeffro! I'll probably have my suspension guy do the conversion. At the end of the day it's not that much $$. The majority of things I could look up on it talked about the main benefit being the shock is easier to service, which is irrelevant to me since I'm paying someone to service it anyway. I didn't want to drop the money on something that has no performance gain. Appreciate the feedback!
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
15458
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
ML512 9/12/2017 9:58am
9/12/2017 9:58am
WP's Traxx shocks come as dual piston shocks but the race team's run a version with a bladder (Dungey, Musquin, Anderson, TLD, etc.) that should tell you which to pick. Wink
2
slipdog
Profile picture for user slipdog
Posts
10044
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
slipdog 9/12/2017 10:04am
9/12/2017 10:04am
jeffro503 wrote:
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 -...
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 - 7 minutes....even quicker on hot days. Had FC do their magic + replacing the piston canister with the bladder conversion.

Night and day for me. Hope that helps.
Was it the bladder that made it night and day better or was it the FC revalve settings that was so much better?


The Shop

See All »
rob162
Profile picture for user rob162
Posts
609
Joined
7/8/2015
Location
IL US
rob162 9/12/2017 1:33pm
9/12/2017 1:33pm
So a bladder conversion on a traxx is a possibility and would make the traxx even better?
Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
10686
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 9/12/2017 1:53pm
9/12/2017 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2017 1:57pm
I went with the MX-tech reservoir kit. It made the shock more predictable late in the motos without the risk of a bladder fail.

I tried a K-tech bladder kit. What happened. It failed, and basically ruined my whole shock shaft and shock body.
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 9/12/2017 1:57pm
9/12/2017 1:57pm
I'd like a bladder conversion to about a quart size,

I'm pissin' like 3 times a night
5
Underground 9/12/2017 2:10pm
9/12/2017 2:10pm
hillbilly wrote:
I'd like a bladder conversion to about a quart size,

I'm pissin' like 3 times a night
BTW, you might want to get your prostate checked for cancer. That's a sign. They can do it via blood tests these days so no need to fear the old gloved knuckle
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
jeffro503 9/12/2017 2:23pm
9/12/2017 2:23pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 -...
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 - 7 minutes....even quicker on hot days. Had FC do their magic + replacing the piston canister with the bladder conversion.

Night and day for me. Hope that helps.
slipdog wrote:
Was it the bladder that made it night and day better or was it the FC revalve settings that was so much better?


Slip...on the piston canister itself , it was getting so hot I could barely touch it without burning my fingers. I'm sure the re-valve helped a bunch , but I also think that piston creates a lot of friction.....thus creating all that heat. Jake up here at FC said he's gotten nothing but positive feedback on the bladder setup. Just a fyi. Also a few guys I've talked to up this way....same thing , good experience.
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 9/12/2017 5:56pm
9/12/2017 5:56pm
hillbilly wrote:
I'd like a bladder conversion to about a quart size,

I'm pissin' like 3 times a night
Underground wrote:
BTW, you might want to get your prostate checked for cancer. That's a sign. They can do it via blood tests these days so no need...
BTW, you might want to get your prostate checked for cancer. That's a sign. They can do it via blood tests these days so no need to fear the old gloved knuckle
Yeah,i had one,the number was good.

I figure my guts are just all wadded and callused from years of being tossed like ice in a martini shaker.

White power would be top of the shaker list from 85 till 90 ,those first generation upside down forks and a shock that had a design that would blow todays tuners minds.

I still have a drawer full of shims,spring or wave washers,little springs that went in the forks, bottoming cones. Just all kinds of shit.

Made my own tools for disassembling.

The 85 ktm 500 was the bike ,god what a beast. Then my husky had them up front, then the cagiva 250 had them front and back.

Good times
Digger29
Profile picture for user Digger29
Posts
1886
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Oxford, MA US
Digger29 9/12/2017 7:25pm
9/12/2017 7:25pm
Group23 wrote:
I'm gonna leave this here.

Unfortunately this is exactly what just happened to the shock on my 17 FE450. It started acting funny a cpl races ago and I sent it back to Powerband and a lot of the nitrogen had leaked through the bladder into the shock.
1
Bearuno
Profile picture for user Bearuno
Posts
4141
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
Bearuno 9/12/2017 7:39pm
9/12/2017 7:39pm
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years.

And quite a few of them with bladder and piston comparisons as the test sequence.

Both have heat generated - hell that's the dispersal of energy.

A bladder distorting under oil and gas pressure with heated oil, has a shitload of heat to shed.

Conceivably an overly 'tight' piston with a band and a seal could generate more heat. But, that's an example if a crap piece of engineering, just as cheap, shitty bladders allowing Nitrogen charge through to the oil is.

Most of the time, it's the rebuild and better oil that people get the notable performance from. But, they, and the Suspension shop they bought from, will tout the new reservoir and bladder as being the big thing.

Me, on my TTX, I set the piston for far more oil in the reservoir, and fit a Fox Schraeder valve so I don't have to faff with a needle etc.

I'll be putting in an SKF piston next rebuild. Every time I've used SKF fork seals , wipers and shock seals ,seal heads, I've been very pleased with their performance and durability.
1
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Bruce372 9/12/2017 8:26pm
9/12/2017 8:26pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 -...
Justin....my opinion was it was worth every penny!! The rear shock on my 17' Husky 125 started to fade / chopper out after about 6 - 7 minutes....even quicker on hot days. Had FC do their magic + replacing the piston canister with the bladder conversion.

Night and day for me. Hope that helps.
slipdog wrote:
Was it the bladder that made it night and day better or was it the FC revalve settings that was so much better?


Exactly.

People selling a new canister insist that's the best. People selling bladder say they at are the best. People selling linkages insist the stock linkage is no good.

endurox
Profile picture for user endurox
Posts
1883
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID US
endurox 9/12/2017 8:32pm
9/12/2017 8:32pm
Bearuno wrote:
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years. And quite a few of them with bladder and piston...
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years.

And quite a few of them with bladder and piston comparisons as the test sequence.

Both have heat generated - hell that's the dispersal of energy.

A bladder distorting under oil and gas pressure with heated oil, has a shitload of heat to shed.

Conceivably an overly 'tight' piston with a band and a seal could generate more heat. But, that's an example if a crap piece of engineering, just as cheap, shitty bladders allowing Nitrogen charge through to the oil is.

Most of the time, it's the rebuild and better oil that people get the notable performance from. But, they, and the Suspension shop they bought from, will tout the new reservoir and bladder as being the big thing.

Me, on my TTX, I set the piston for far more oil in the reservoir, and fit a Fox Schraeder valve so I don't have to faff with a needle etc.

I'll be putting in an SKF piston next rebuild. Every time I've used SKF fork seals , wipers and shock seals ,seal heads, I've been very pleased with their performance and durability.
I tried the SKF piston in my Husaberg. Unfortunately the piston has very little surface area and the nitrogen got past the piston in no time. I have a small BMW/KTM shop in Boise. Sell and install lots of SKF seal, wiper and bushing kits. Will wait to see if they improve the piston. It is super light.
Bearuno
Profile picture for user Bearuno
Posts
4141
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
Bearuno 9/13/2017 12:48am
9/13/2017 12:48am
Bearuno wrote:
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years. And quite a few of them with bladder and piston...
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years.

And quite a few of them with bladder and piston comparisons as the test sequence.

Both have heat generated - hell that's the dispersal of energy.

A bladder distorting under oil and gas pressure with heated oil, has a shitload of heat to shed.

Conceivably an overly 'tight' piston with a band and a seal could generate more heat. But, that's an example if a crap piece of engineering, just as cheap, shitty bladders allowing Nitrogen charge through to the oil is.

Most of the time, it's the rebuild and better oil that people get the notable performance from. But, they, and the Suspension shop they bought from, will tout the new reservoir and bladder as being the big thing.

Me, on my TTX, I set the piston for far more oil in the reservoir, and fit a Fox Schraeder valve so I don't have to faff with a needle etc.

I'll be putting in an SKF piston next rebuild. Every time I've used SKF fork seals , wipers and shock seals ,seal heads, I've been very pleased with their performance and durability.
endurox wrote:
I tried the SKF piston in my Husaberg. Unfortunately the piston has very little surface area and the nitrogen got past the piston in no time...
I tried the SKF piston in my Husaberg. Unfortunately the piston has very little surface area and the nitrogen got past the piston in no time. I have a small BMW/KTM shop in Boise. Sell and install lots of SKF seal, wiper and bushing kits. Will wait to see if they improve the piston. It is super light.
Good to know - I thought there might be some risk with a 'thinner' piston. Or it might be the piston tending to 'butterfly valve'?
mx317
Profile picture for user mx317
Posts
4552
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
mx317 10/19/2017 11:08am
10/19/2017 11:08am
Group23 wrote:
I'm gonna leave this here.

Digger29 wrote:
Unfortunately this is exactly what just happened to the shock on my 17 FE450. It started acting funny a cpl races ago and I sent it...
Unfortunately this is exactly what just happened to the shock on my 17 FE450. It started acting funny a cpl races ago and I sent it back to Powerband and a lot of the nitrogen had leaked through the bladder into the shock.
So did mine. Billy told me he had an updated bladder cap and should solve that problem.

Pit Row

See All »
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Bruce372 10/19/2017 11:24am
10/19/2017 11:24am
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him know...



2
mx317
Profile picture for user mx317
Posts
4552
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
mx317 10/19/2017 11:44am
10/19/2017 11:44am
Bruce372 wrote:
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him...
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him know...



You should not worry what other people do with their money, in other words mind your own business.
1
1
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Bruce372 10/19/2017 11:55am
10/19/2017 11:55am
Bruce372 wrote:
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him...
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him know...



mx317 wrote:
You should not worry what other people do with their money, in other words mind your own business.
Lol, I don't give a crap what people buy.

I have an after market setup on my shock and it didn't make any difference.
1
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Bruce372 10/19/2017 11:57am
10/19/2017 11:57am
Bruce372 wrote:
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him...
James Dunn won an emx250 round with a stock wp shock, no after marker can or bladder. YouYou guys out riding your suspension should let him know...



mx317 wrote:
You should not worry what other people do with their money, in other words mind your own business.
And at no point do I think anyone shouldn't buy this stuff, but I do believe people should set a low expectation about any perceived improvements.
1
mx317
Profile picture for user mx317
Posts
4552
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
mx317 10/19/2017 12:22pm
10/19/2017 12:22pm
Bruce372 wrote:
And at no point do I think anyone shouldn't buy this stuff, but I do believe people should set a low expectation about any perceived improvements.
I couldn't tell any difference either. I was told by Enzo to just use the stock can and piston. When I had Powerband rebuild and update it, he used his bladder kit. They both worked about the same.
1
RockyRider
Profile picture for user RockyRider
Posts
308
Joined
3/10/2016
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
Fantasy
3372nd
RockyRider 10/19/2017 12:31pm
10/19/2017 12:31pm
Bearuno wrote:
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years. And quite a few of them with bladder and piston...
I've been witness to quite a few Dyno runs on shocks over many , many years.

And quite a few of them with bladder and piston comparisons as the test sequence.

Both have heat generated - hell that's the dispersal of energy.

A bladder distorting under oil and gas pressure with heated oil, has a shitload of heat to shed.

Conceivably an overly 'tight' piston with a band and a seal could generate more heat. But, that's an example if a crap piece of engineering, just as cheap, shitty bladders allowing Nitrogen charge through to the oil is.

Most of the time, it's the rebuild and better oil that people get the notable performance from. But, they, and the Suspension shop they bought from, will tout the new reservoir and bladder as being the big thing.

Me, on my TTX, I set the piston for far more oil in the reservoir, and fit a Fox Schraeder valve so I don't have to faff with a needle etc.

I'll be putting in an SKF piston next rebuild. Every time I've used SKF fork seals , wipers and shock seals ,seal heads, I've been very pleased with their performance and durability.
In my experiences the SKF pucks are no good, multiple have failed.
The bladder kit is just another thing to bling out on, although it does make rebuilds a bit more simple. The average joe is not going to get notice any performance gains. Change your oil and add a low friction band on the piston. You'll notice that more and for a fraction of the cost
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Bruce372 10/19/2017 12:44pm
10/19/2017 12:44pm
RockyRider wrote:
In my experiences the SKF pucks are no good, multiple have failed. The bladder kit is just another thing to bling out on, although it does...
In my experiences the SKF pucks are no good, multiple have failed.
The bladder kit is just another thing to bling out on, although it does make rebuilds a bit more simple. The average joe is not going to get notice any performance gains. Change your oil and add a low friction band on the piston. You'll notice that more and for a fraction of the cost
I agree with rocky, the advantage of the aftermarket bladder is ease of rebuilding.

I invested in a tank on mine since it was supposed to come with a schrader, but it ended up having a needle septa anyway.

A few tuners i have heard off, just drill out the stock canister and fit a schrader since the aftermarket needle septa can be unreliable.

I'll admit, ive never rebuilt a shock that uses the separator setup.
Patrick Potato 7/27/2020 7:08pm
7/27/2020 7:08pm
Shops push the bladder conversion for two main reasons. It’s an “up sell” which makes them more money and most shops are set up to refill nitrogen via a Shrader type valve, the standard WP filling system requires additional special tools. #nowyouknow
2
GoggleFiend904 7/27/2020 9:53pm
7/27/2020 9:53pm
Patrick Potato wrote:
Shops push the bladder conversion for two main reasons. It’s an “up sell” which makes them more money and most shops are set up to refill...
Shops push the bladder conversion for two main reasons. It’s an “up sell” which makes them more money and most shops are set up to refill nitrogen via a Shrader type valve, the standard WP filling system requires additional special tools. #nowyouknow
Yeah, I had a tuner put one in my shock without asking me. He didn’t even charge me for it, then 30 hours later my shock body was destroyed.
PTshox
Profile picture for user PTshox
Posts
1350
Joined
10/1/2011
Location
Highland Village, TX US
PTshox 7/27/2020 10:58pm
7/27/2020 10:58pm
Put a suspension Direct one on my 2016 350 XCF... no issues. Works great. Easier to service.
All this talk about bladders blowing out... to me that means someone didn't install it correctly. Or it was supper old... The SDI one is very well built. btw if it was a "bad" technology Showa or KYB wouldn't ship millions of shocks with them.
1
theycallmeebryan 7/28/2020 12:19am
7/28/2020 12:19am
On my MXR WP shock, we just removed the stock needle valve and drilled and tapped a thread for a shrader valve. Kept the piston. Best of both worlds.
1

Post a reply to: WP Shock Bladder Conversion - Worth it?