WP A kit vs KYB spring conversion for AER?

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9/20/2020 2:10 PM

I've got a bike coming that I'll be posting a build thread on later, but the bike is going to be a fun one. I'll save the details for later.
Initially it was supposed to come with A kit suspension on it but that deal fell through and stock suspension has been put back on the bike. Now I'm looking into the KYB conversion and that's about $2k and nice used cone valve forks aren't much more at all.
I haven't ridden either, so I don't know the difference. I do own a set of very well setup AER and they are pretty good, but I think I'd still refer a spring fork.
So for those in the know, is it worth it to spend the extra money on the A kit setup or is the KYB conversion going to work as well for me?
Keep in mind, I'm a Vet C rider and don't really race anymore. My kid will also be riding the bike here and there as he transitions off of 85s. I honestly don't need A kit suspension, but this bike is definitely worthy of having them.

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9/20/2020 3:01 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/20/2020 3:06 PM

I’ve ridden ‘20 350s with both KYB dual spring conversion (the bike that sold me on a 350), and with AER come valves (mine). I was very impressed with the suspension on the initial one I tried out, even though it was valved and sprung for someone heavier and faster than I. I talked to Brandon at Solid Performance after putting down the deposit for my bike from them, and he went over the pros and cons of different setups. Very knowledgeable people over there. You can also do cone valve adaptation setups to the stock forks.
I was initially going to go this route with springs, but ended up going with a set of the black AER cone valves for the price. I was a bit hesitant, because I didn’t really like the initial “dead” feeling at the top of the stroke with the stock forks. The air version of the cone valve fork has two air chambers-the one at the top of the left fork, and then a negative chamber at the bottom that helps out quite a bit with feel. These also have the weight advantage. However, with the springs, you obviously just have to bleed instead of checking/setting pressure every ride.
I would give him a call/talk to the tuner of your choice, weigh your options, and go from there.

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9/20/2020 4:52 PM

The one plus that no one talks about and no other suspension can match against the cone valves is the upper fork tube doesn’t taper like stock forks and stiffens up the bike in a good way. Gives a better front end feel. Being a vet c rider that’s not really something that you’ll notice. In all honesty you should get the AER’s revalved by a known shop (powerband, factory connection, Enzo, ect.) so that way you can change the air pressure for you and then lower it for your son.

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

9/20/2020 7:47 PM

You should talk to Jeremy at MX Tech about his Lucky Carbon spring conversion for the AER fork. I just did it to my 2019 300XC and can't say enough good about it! The bike actually feels like its has connection with the ground that my stock forks never had. Trail obstacles that would either transfer the hit to my arms or just ripe the bars out of my hands are soaked up with ease now. I over jumped and under jumped some stuff on the MX track to get a feel for the bottoming and slap down style landings... totally controlled and much better bottoming resistance than before. For $1200.00, it was the best money I could have spent on this bike.

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9/20/2020 8:26 PM

I agree with the above post. If you want to spend $2k on the forks, start with the $1200 MX Tech Lucky inserts and spend the rest on coatings.

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9/20/2020 11:18 PM

Both will be amazing if you use a good tuner. I suggest Powerband racing for cone valves and Enzo for the KYB conversion as well as Cone vavles.

The positive with buy cone valves is that you can take them off the bike and sell them later. I’ve bought multiple sets of use cone valves and almost always get my money back. If you convert AER, then need to go with the bike when sold.

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9/21/2020 11:01 AM

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

Both will be amazing if you use a good tuner. I suggest Powerband racing for cone valves and Enzo for the KYB conversion as well as Cone vavles.

The positive with buy cone valves is that you can take them off the bike and sell them later. I’ve bought multiple sets of use cone valves and almost always get my money back. If you convert AER, then need to go with the bike when sold.

Isn't the KYB kit (technical touch) made so you can swap em back to stock if you want to? Would recoup or make moving them to the next bike easier.

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9/21/2020 11:22 AM

Another vote for MX-Tech lucky dual spring setup. I have had them in my Husky FC 350 for a little more than two years now, and it is the best mod I have done so far.

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9/21/2020 12:06 PM

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

Both will be amazing if you use a good tuner. I suggest Powerband racing for cone valves and Enzo for the KYB conversion as well as Cone vavles.

The positive with buy cone valves is that you can take them off the bike and sell them later. I’ve bought multiple sets of use cone valves and almost always get my money back. If you convert AER, then need to go with the bike when sold.

Lynch wrote:

Isn't the KYB kit (technical touch) made so you can swap em back to stock if you want to? Would recoup or make moving them to the next bike easier.

Definitely, you can swap them back in under an hour.

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9/21/2020 1:27 PM

Have the KYB kit setup by Technical Touch, very pleased with the investment.
Comes with their black axle lugs, still possible to switch back to AER internals & lugs.

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9/21/2020 2:18 PM

jeffoff wrote:

Have the KYB kit setup by Technical Touch, very pleased with the investment.
Comes with their black axle lugs, still possible to switch back to AER internals & lugs.

Just about to order mine, was yours valved by TT close to what you wanted it was it valved by a shop you purchased through?

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9/21/2020 4:10 PM

jeffoff wrote:

Have the KYB kit setup by Technical Touch, very pleased with the investment.
Comes with their black axle lugs, still possible to switch back to AER internals & lugs.

Rotaholic wrote:

Just about to order mine, was yours valved by TT close to what you wanted it was it valved by a shop you purchased through?

would be interested to know the same thing, i just purchased gold valves and will give them a honest try. If i’m not happy i’m going spring relatively quick and leaning toward just doing the CV forks but would like to know how the TT conversion work and if you had to mess with them much to get them set up past the settings provided from TT.

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Never try to argue with idiots; they will only bring you down to their level.....and being more experienced, they will beat you at their own game!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

9/21/2020 4:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/21/2020 4:18 PM

I appreciate all the info. While we are at it, what's the feedback on the Kreft revalve control setup? Only thing I found was a video of Ping saying it was as good as any factory suspension he's ridden. My understanding is this setup is just for the mid valve.
In addition to that, I know there are people putting in cone valve conversions for the mid valve. My understanding is the cone valve is progressive and doesn't use shims. Anyone have any feedback on this setup as well?

I like what I'm reading about the MX Tech setup and will do more research on it. It seems like a viable option at this point.

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9/21/2020 4:54 PM

Damping on the AER can be very good, but won’t have a spring fork feel.

I have a set of CVs setup by Enzo (originally done by Powerband). They are great. Also have some WP CC setup by Enzo and they are very good.

Craig at Enzo said told me that the KYB kit was better than the CV. Haven’t had a bad setup from him in 6 bikes. My next pricey set of suspension will be the KYB conversion.

If not KYB, then I’d seriously consider the Lucky kit or the Dal Saggio (very similar to the WP CC).

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9/21/2020 7:03 PM

Never ridden CV's but I've had the aer's revalved by Enzo... then had Kreft perform the works on 'em... Then had them converted to KYB internals by Enzo. I'm also a Vet C/B rider and would say that the KYB was hands down the best coin I spent on my 350. The bike settles so well now, no nervous front end. It's very digressive feeling and just gets better as I push it. I haven't felt this comfy on a bike in a long time. Contact me anytime if you want more details.

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9/21/2020 7:10 PM

Can the Mx tech lucky kit be removed and the forks set back to stock. I can’t remember if or where I read that they have to modify something internally for the lucky kit? If it was removable I’m probably going that route. Will call tomorrow if I have time I think I’ve heard good things about pro tune awhile back and they aren’t too far from me.

I think pro tune does a kyb conversion but I think it sounds like they use used donor parts from sss forks? Anyone have any experience with them?

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9/21/2020 9:50 PM

jeffoff wrote:

Have the KYB kit setup by Technical Touch, very pleased with the investment.
Comes with their black axle lugs, still possible to switch back to AER internals & lugs.

Rotaholic wrote:

Just about to order mine, was yours valved by TT close to what you wanted it was it valved by a shop you purchased through?

bvm111 wrote:

would be interested to know the same thing, i just purchased gold valves and will give them a honest try. If i’m not happy i’m going spring relatively quick and leaning toward just doing the CV forks but would like to know how the TT conversion work and if you had to mess with them much to get them set up past the settings provided from TT.

I purchased directly from TT and waited when they did the conversion in their hq @ Belgium.
This was the day before the lockdown, all tracks got closed and could not ride the following months.
I had them setup the forks for husqvarna tc250 2018, riding mostly heavy sand tracks. For 32 year old 80kg rider, intermediate skill level riding for fun. Fitness is good, been able to do 25 to 30 minute moto´s lately.
They put their valving, 4.6 springs and 360ml of oil into it.
It felt hard @ first, it was also needed to stiffen up my shock so this was also modified by other tuner to work with the forks.
Since then i only adjusted some clickers but i need to raise the oil in the forks because of (close to) bottoming. The beauty is it doesn´t feel like bottoming with them...
Added 4 clicks compression and now o -ring comes within 5mm of lug.
Rear tyre hits the fender every time out (44 spring).
Now fork got more plush since having some run time and the setup gives me confidence in the rough stuff.
I do case or overjump frequently or hit the jump without the landing and it just works very well.
Just bought fc350 2020, not yet picked up but thought of getting the KYB kit for this one also in the future.
First will see how this AER feels/works.

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9/22/2020 9:12 AM

Pirate421 wrote:

Can the Mx tech lucky kit be removed and the forks set back to stock. I can’t remember if or where I read that they have to modify something internally for the lucky kit? If it was removable I’m probably going that route. Will call tomorrow if I have time I think I’ve heard good things about pro tune awhile back and they aren’t too far from me.

I think pro tune does a kyb conversion but I think it sounds like they use used donor parts from sss forks? Anyone have any experience with them?

Pirate,

The MX TECH Lucky set up can easily be returned to stock. There is no permanent changes in the fork that can't be changed back to stock. The only part of this that may scare someone is taking off the stock lugs so you can install the MX Tech adaptor. It was pretty easy to do to if you have above average mechanical skills. But if you are going to do it, make sure you buy the lower fork leg holder from MX Tech! It is critical to making the job easy and not fucing up your lower tube!

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9/22/2020 12:32 PM

jeffoff wrote:

Have the KYB kit setup by Technical Touch, very pleased with the investment.
Comes with their black axle lugs, still possible to switch back to AER internals & lugs.

Rotaholic wrote:

Just about to order mine, was yours valved by TT close to what you wanted it was it valved by a shop you purchased through?

TT valved mine, or sent me the specs rather. They where way of on preload and oil level. 5.0nm 355 oil and 9mm preload for my sxf 450 2018 and 2019 was way to much with 48nm rear (trax and WP OEM). 5.0 300ml 5mm preload gives good balance.

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9/22/2020 1:18 PM

Pirate421 wrote:

Can the Mx tech lucky kit be removed and the forks set back to stock. I can’t remember if or where I read that they have to modify something internally for the lucky kit? If it was removable I’m probably going that route. Will call tomorrow if I have time I think I’ve heard good things about pro tune awhile back and they aren’t too far from me.

I think pro tune does a kyb conversion but I think it sounds like they use used donor parts from sss forks? Anyone have any experience with them?

ProTune did my KYB conversion for $1300 - very happy with it.

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9/22/2020 5:31 PM

Pirate421 wrote:

Can the Mx tech lucky kit be removed and the forks set back to stock. I can’t remember if or where I read that they have to modify something internally for the lucky kit? If it was removable I’m probably going that route. Will call tomorrow if I have time I think I’ve heard good things about pro tune awhile back and they aren’t too far from me.

I think pro tune does a kyb conversion but I think it sounds like they use used donor parts from sss forks? Anyone have any experience with them?

SweetDaddy wrote:

ProTune did my KYB conversion for $1300 - very happy with it.

I’m on the fence with the kyb or the Mx tech lucky kit. If they just swap in the standard kyb internals that kind of seems like a lot? I’ve had a few yz250s and rebuilt those forks they work great but idk if it’s worth $1300 to me. Maybe it’s Mx tech fancy part names but I feel like I’d be getting more with the lucky’s for $981.

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9/22/2020 5:34 PM

Toddler125 wrote:

Pirate,

The MX TECH Lucky set up can easily be returned to stock. There is no permanent changes in the fork that can't be changed back to stock. The only part of this that may scare someone is taking off the stock lugs so you can install the MX Tech adaptor. It was pretty easy to do to if you have above average mechanical skills. But if you are going to do it, make sure you buy the lower fork leg holder from MX Tech! It is critical to making the job easy and not fucing up your lower tube!

Thanks that sounds good. I’d definitely send the forks off and get the work done as I don’t have the tools, space or want to remove those lugs.

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9/22/2020 6:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/22/2020 6:31 PM

Pirate421 wrote:

Can the Mx tech lucky kit be removed and the forks set back to stock. I can’t remember if or where I read that they have to modify something internally for the lucky kit? If it was removable I’m probably going that route. Will call tomorrow if I have time I think I’ve heard good things about pro tune awhile back and they aren’t too far from me.

I think pro tune does a kyb conversion but I think it sounds like they use used donor parts from sss forks? Anyone have any experience with them?

SweetDaddy wrote:

ProTune did my KYB conversion for $1300 - very happy with it.

Pirate421 wrote:

I’m on the fence with the kyb or the Mx tech lucky kit. If they just swap in the standard kyb internals that kind of seems like a lot? I’ve had a few yz250s and rebuilt those forks they work great but idk if it’s worth $1300 to me. Maybe it’s Mx tech fancy part names but I feel like I’d be getting more with the lucky’s for $981.

Been wondering when this would come up. MX Tech is like tricked out KYB's. And the majority of them are DIY drop in's with no need to remove the fork bottoms.

Also not mentioned, there are 2 types of MXT Lucky's. The original is super well respected for smooth feel and progressive never bottoming resistance, but they are technically open cartridge. The new Lucky Carbons are $200 more and recommended for pure MX not so much crossover offroad and they are true closed cartridge with enhanced components throughout and larger bottoming cone (Huck). There are still few reviews on them but they have all been good (except Ping on the $36k Husky thought they needed revalving). The prices are quite fair although springs may be extra.

You are not looking to replace, but rumor is MXT is developing their own Z-Kit fork, there have been a few teasers that most haven't picked up on. Looks like Kashima and DLC with Lucky's. I've got my eye on those.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/22/2020 7:45 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Been wondering when this would come up. MX Tech is like tricked out KYB's. And the majority of them are DIY drop in's with no need to remove the fork bottoms.

Also not mentioned, there are 2 types of MXT Lucky's. The original is super well respected for smooth feel and progressive never bottoming resistance, but they are technically open cartridge. The new Lucky Carbons are $200 more and recommended for pure MX not so much crossover offroad and they are true closed cartridge with enhanced components throughout and larger bottoming cone (Huck). There are still few reviews on them but they have all been good (except Ping on the $36k Husky thought they needed revalving). The prices are quite fair although springs may be extra.

You are not looking to replace, but rumor is MXT is developing their own Z-Kit fork, there have been a few teasers that most haven't picked up on. Looks like Kashima and DLC with Lucky's. I've got my eye on those.

Yea I called MX tech today to ask about the luckys since their website doesn’t have a whole lot of info comparing the two versions. I’m just a 30+ b/c Mx and XC guy who rides about 40 hrs a year at most so I was leaning towards the gen 1 version. They recommended the gen 2 carbons (of course$$) haha but I don’t think I need those.

I just want good suspension for a bit of everything and I really don’t even need it but thought I’d maybe spoil myself and get some good kit and get rid of the air since moto is my thing. and everyone should experience the good stuff At least once right? I couldn’t get ahold of pro tune but hopefully I can get someone on the phone tomorrow or later this week and see what they say.

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9/22/2020 7:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/22/2020 7:59 PM

I’m not trying to be a downer here but if you’re a self proclaimed Vet C rider, the forks aren’t ever going to be a difference maker just as long as you get them set up right and maintained often. It’s money spent that you probably will hardly ever notice.

You won’t be able to make the A kit come close to performing. That’s just a fact and throwing away money. Don’t do it.

I recently went from a 2016 fc450 with spring conversions to a new model 450. I changed the shock spring and fine tuned the forks and have found to enjoy the customization opportunities that the AER affords for different tracks and throughout the day as the conditions change besides just your clickers

That being said if you want to go with springs, just get a good set of Lucky or Ohlins inserts and spend way less.

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9/22/2020 8:30 PM

chasetwo79 wrote:

I’m not trying to be a downer here but if you’re a self proclaimed Vet C rider, the forks aren’t ever going to be a difference maker just as long as you get them set up right and maintained often. It’s money spent that you probably will hardly ever notice.

You won’t be able to make the A kit come close to performing. That’s just a fact and throwing away money. Don’t do it.

I recently went from a 2016 fc450 with spring conversions to a new model 450. I changed the shock spring and fine tuned the forks and have found to enjoy the customization opportunities that the AER affords for different tracks and throughout the day as the conditions change besides just your clickers

That being said if you want to go with springs, just get a good set of Lucky or Ohlins inserts and spend way less.

That’s another thing that’s good to hear as well. As much as I want to try to good stuff I’m also not in the business of throwing money away. There’s a local-ish shop that is a race tech dealer and I’ve also debated/ though of maybe trying the gold valves when it’s time to service them. I am vet rider but There are some things That I believe could be improved feel wise on the forks, especially since I’m riding a softer valved XC on the moto track a few times a month. Yes a vet but I don’t roll any of the jumps haha

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9/22/2020 8:35 PM

chasetwo79 wrote:

I’m not trying to be a downer here but if you’re a self proclaimed Vet C rider, the forks aren’t ever going to be a difference maker just as long as you get them set up right and maintained often. It’s money spent that you probably will hardly ever notice.

You won’t be able to make the A kit come close to performing. That’s just a fact and throwing away money. Don’t do it.

I recently went from a 2016 fc450 with spring conversions to a new model 450. I changed the shock spring and fine tuned the forks and have found to enjoy the customization opportunities that the AER affords for different tracks and throughout the day as the conditions change besides just your clickers

That being said if you want to go with springs, just get a good set of Lucky or Ohlins inserts and spend way less.

Pirate421 wrote:

That’s another thing that’s good to hear as well. As much as I want to try to good stuff I’m also not in the business of throwing money away. There’s a local-ish shop that is a race tech dealer and I’ve also debated/ though of maybe trying the gold valves when it’s time to service them. I am vet rider but There are some things That I believe could be improved feel wise on the forks, especially since I’m riding a softer valved XC on the moto track a few times a month. Yes a vet but I don’t roll any of the jumps haha

The race tech dealer can you get you drop in spring conversions that should be more than enough for what you need alongside a good revalue, etc. Will be cheaper than Ohlins or Luckys and still more than enough for what you need.

I think I saw the pricing is like half the cost or something. Ask the dealer and I’m sure they can point you in the right direction.

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9/22/2020 8:52 PM

chasetwo79 wrote:

I’m not trying to be a downer here but if you’re a self proclaimed Vet C rider, the forks aren’t ever going to be a difference maker just as long as you get them set up right and maintained often. It’s money spent that you probably will hardly ever notice.

You won’t be able to make the A kit come close to performing. That’s just a fact and throwing away money. Don’t do it.

I recently went from a 2016 fc450 with spring conversions to a new model 450. I changed the shock spring and fine tuned the forks and have found to enjoy the customization opportunities that the AER affords for different tracks and throughout the day as the conditions change besides just your clickers

That being said if you want to go with springs, just get a good set of Lucky or Ohlins inserts and spend way less.

Pirate421 wrote:

That’s another thing that’s good to hear as well. As much as I want to try to good stuff I’m also not in the business of throwing money away. There’s a local-ish shop that is a race tech dealer and I’ve also debated/ though of maybe trying the gold valves when it’s time to service them. I am vet rider but There are some things That I believe could be improved feel wise on the forks, especially since I’m riding a softer valved XC on the moto track a few times a month. Yes a vet but I don’t roll any of the jumps haha

chasetwo79 wrote:

The race tech dealer can you get you drop in spring conversions that should be more than enough for what you need alongside a good revalue, etc. Will be cheaper than Ohlins or Luckys and still more than enough for what you need.

I think I saw the pricing is like half the cost or something. Ask the dealer and I’m sure they can point you in the right direction.

The spring conversion will transform that front end. Don't cheap out.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/22/2020 9:09 PM

Pirate421 wrote:

That’s another thing that’s good to hear as well. As much as I want to try to good stuff I’m also not in the business of throwing money away. There’s a local-ish shop that is a race tech dealer and I’ve also debated/ though of maybe trying the gold valves when it’s time to service them. I am vet rider but There are some things That I believe could be improved feel wise on the forks, especially since I’m riding a softer valved XC on the moto track a few times a month. Yes a vet but I don’t roll any of the jumps haha

chasetwo79 wrote:

The race tech dealer can you get you drop in spring conversions that should be more than enough for what you need alongside a good revalue, etc. Will be cheaper than Ohlins or Luckys and still more than enough for what you need.

I think I saw the pricing is like half the cost or something. Ask the dealer and I’m sure they can point you in the right direction.

Johnny Depp wrote:

The spring conversion will transform that front end. Don't cheap out.

My argument was no change will be that noticeable nor the quickest way to gain speed for someone who is a Vet C rider. This sport is already expensive enough. I think making your average Vet or any C level rider think they need to spend the same on their already expensive bike that a B or A rider does to compete turns off prospective new riders that we need to grow the sport. If someone has money and wants to feel like they have the absolute best stuff, then let them, but let’s not pretend that it’s actually a major difference maker or needed purchase at that level.

That’s why I said in my first reply “sorry to be the downer” but someone has to let people know they don’t have to bleed their wallet to be competitive at the beginner and novice level at their local racetracks or else the tracks will die. Think of it as the devil to everyone else telling a novice rider how awesome come valves are in every thread.





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9/22/2020 9:48 PM

Pirate421 wrote:

Can the Mx tech lucky kit be removed and the forks set back to stock. I can’t remember if or where I read that they have to modify something internally for the lucky kit? If it was removable I’m probably going that route. Will call tomorrow if I have time I think I’ve heard good things about pro tune awhile back and they aren’t too far from me.

I think pro tune does a kyb conversion but I think it sounds like they use used donor parts from sss forks? Anyone have any experience with them?

SweetDaddy wrote:

ProTune did my KYB conversion for $1300 - very happy with it.

Pirate421 wrote:

I’m on the fence with the kyb or the Mx tech lucky kit. If they just swap in the standard kyb internals that kind of seems like a lot? I’ve had a few yz250s and rebuilt those forks they work great but idk if it’s worth $1300 to me. Maybe it’s Mx tech fancy part names but I feel like I’d be getting more with the lucky’s for $981.

I tought it are the same internals as their kit forks...

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