WP 4cs forks

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8/21/2015 12:14 PM

have any of you guys got first hand experience with modifying these forks to work well? heard a lot of people having problems doing so.

Looking at buying a new 350 soon, over here the ktms come with air forks, and the husky comes with the 4cs. Not a big fan of the design / idea of airforks. Would like some feedback from anyone that's spent some time setting the 4cs forks up- can you get them to work well?


thanks

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8/21/2015 12:27 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/21/2015 12:53 PM

As far as I can tell (from a lot of research, including real world reports KTMtalk.com-from people who breath and bleed orange), they suck, and it costs about $1700 to get them to work right. KTMtalk.com almost unanimously recommends Kreft Moto to do it.

I've talk to several suspension tuners, who actually take out the entire 4cs system and replace it with Honda internals (again, cost to do that is about $1500-$1700).

The 4cs forks are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this year, it's hard to justify spending $10K on a bike and then needing to spend another $2K just to make the suspension ridable. (Unless they fixed them on the 16 models...and I'm anxiously waiting for some tests to be posted).


(Oh, for the record, I'm speaking from an off road perspective...on the XC/XC-F KTM's. I haven't done any research on the SX/SX-F models...and I'm not sure how different the suspension is between the two lines.)

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8/21/2015 12:40 PM

I just got a '16 150sx, and forks are actually decent... I've had a '14 150sx, and '13 450sxf in the past. I wasn't able to get the old 450 forks set up very well. The '16, I'm leaving stock for now. If you hate the 4cs forks that much, you might find some WP A kit forks on ebay...

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8/21/2015 12:50 PM

If you want to trade a new set of 4cs forks for your air forks just let me know.

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8/21/2015 12:57 PM

I'm a bit biased here (I work with a suspension tuner) but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I'm a local AA rider and we primarily focus on off-road, trail riding, dualsport; so hopefully this applies to you...

I actually think the 4CS can be made to work very very well with some minor mods. Stock they leave much to be desired and I don't think anyone will disagree with that. We've tried modifying them into open chambers and these do work better than stock but I still think they work best at the stock 4CS setup with some internal modifications. Some valve modifications, remove the check valves and install low speed compression adjusters. This basically sets them up into a normal configuration where compression is on the bottom and rebound on the top. The added costs for these mods costs ~$200, which compared to other options is a huge savings.

These forks have a huge range of adjust-ability but this is also a double edged sword. We have many customers who send in their stuff because it's unrideable and most of it is because they don't have a good understanding on how to setup suspension. When valved/sprung correctly they're awesome but try to push them outside of where they're setup, they can be a bitch. You will likely need to have them at least revalved because like you've heard, stock they're not very good.

As far as replacing the internals... I wouldn't do it unless I did it with Ohlins. They've been around for awhile, they have a solid R&D program, they're designed for the specific application, you can reset them easily to stock and they're cheaper than the other options. I just wonder what will happen when/if this KYB/Showa fad fades away, your tuner leaves or you decide to go with someone else? We certainly want to test them out for ourselves but until then, we think that the 4CS is plenty good for 98% of the riders.

I'm not going to spam who I work for/with but if you're interested, PM me and I'll get you some info. Hopefully this helps some.

TLDR: 4CS aren't good stock but can be made to work very well with minor mods. Don't believe all the negative hype.

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8/21/2015 12:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/21/2015 1:04 PM

You will find a lot of mixed reviews. Some say they're un rideable, some say they work fine after a re valve, some have no complaints. All depends how picky you are and how good you are at adapting. I've always been able to hop on any bike and ride it. Owned older ktm's and huskies so when I got on a newer one it felt amazing. Owned Japanese bike before and after that, went from a newer honda 4 stroke to new ktm 2 stroke. Do they have demo days like they have here where you're from? Sure you know someone who owns a new ktm. Find one, ride it for a good bit and make your decision based on that. Not what someone on the internet says because we all have our own opinion. Plenty of guys go fast on the stock stuff, I don't believe it's own rideable. I'll find out fist hand tomorrow. Just bought a new 15 250 sx and racing it tomorrow for the first ride. Coming from the 13 with the older style forks with a re valve. I'll let you know my first impressions but I suggest you find one to test ride and see how you like it, not how someone else likes it.

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8/21/2015 1:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/21/2015 1:12 PM

I don't get all the flack. I have a 2013 KTM with stock forks, and think they are as good as anything I've ever rode. I just don't have issues. A buddy of mine who HATES KTM's, rode it and thought they were good also. They aren't as good as my 2005 Suzuki RG3 Kit forks, but better than any stock and most modded forks I've tried.

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2013 KTM 450SXF, 1983 YZ 250K, & 1983 CR 250

8/21/2015 1:35 PM

X2 depends how picky you are. They are not bad, they are just not amazing...

If you like everything about the KTM 350, I wouldn't let that turn you off from buying it...

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8/21/2015 1:36 PM

ummm...stock 2013 was closed cartridge not 4cs.

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8/21/2015 2:00 PM

mag23 wrote:

I just got a '16 150sx, and forks are actually decent... I've had a '14 150sx, and '13 450sxf in the past. I wasn't able to get the old 450 forks set up very well. The '16, I'm leaving stock for now. If you hate the 4cs forks that much, you might find some WP A kit forks on ebay...

I want to ride that bad dog... I might even know a guy that can help you with those forks.

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8/21/2015 2:22 PM

mag23 wrote:

I just got a '16 150sx, and forks are actually decent... I've had a '14 150sx, and '13 450sxf in the past. I wasn't able to get the old 450 forks set up very well. The '16, I'm leaving stock for now. If you hate the 4cs forks that much, you might find some WP A kit forks on ebay...

slipdog wrote:

I want to ride that bad dog... I might even know a guy that can help you with those forks.

Any time bud! You'd love this thing

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8/21/2015 2:23 PM

Titan1 wrote:

As far as I can tell (from a lot of research, including real world reports KTMtalk.com-from people who breath and bleed orange), they suck, and it costs about $1700 to get them to work right. KTMtalk.com almost unanimously recommends Kreft Moto to do it.

I've talk to several suspension tuners, who actually take out the entire 4cs system and replace it with Honda internals (again, cost to do that is about $1500-$1700).

The 4cs forks are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this year, it's hard to justify spending $10K on a bike and then needing to spend another $2K just to make the suspension ridable. (Unless they fixed them on the 16 models...and I'm anxiously waiting for some tests to be posted).


(Oh, for the record, I'm speaking from an off road perspective...on the XC/XC-F KTM's. I haven't done any research on the SX/SX-F models...and I'm not sure how different the suspension is between the two lines.)

Unless your a woods rider or a straight away kid the opinions of the guys on ktmtalk are pretty much useless for motocross. Their are a few guys really knowledgeable on their but not too many with mx expierence, god forbid you have a diffrent opinion or disagree with someone on their especially if the company is a sponsor of ktmtalk, you ll be disaplinned like a 5yr old. Iol kreft or mxtech are both very good, but I would never spend that kind of money again on oem stuff. Personally id sell the 4cs and buy conevalve or ohlins

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8/21/2015 3:11 PM

the 4cs forks are horrible. They are a bad design and will never be good enough for the rest of the bike. Revalve all you want. I am just blown away when I read how some guys think they are good? I had a 15 350 and 450. Rode a few friends bikes too. Just horrible. It boggles my mind KTM would sell a bike built so well and put those forks on it. I would buy a new 450 today if it had anything but those 4cs forks on it. Guess I will wait for the new WP air fork. Hearing good things

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8/21/2015 3:33 PM

Titan1 wrote:

As far as I can tell (from a lot of research, including real world reports KTMtalk.com-from people who breath and bleed orange), they suck, and it costs about $1700 to get them to work right. KTMtalk.com almost unanimously recommends Kreft Moto to do it.

I've talk to several suspension tuners, who actually take out the entire 4cs system and replace it with Honda internals (again, cost to do that is about $1500-$1700).

The 4cs forks are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this year, it's hard to justify spending $10K on a bike and then needing to spend another $2K just to make the suspension ridable. (Unless they fixed them on the 16 models...and I'm anxiously waiting for some tests to be posted).


(Oh, for the record, I'm speaking from an off road perspective...on the XC/XC-F KTM's. I haven't done any research on the SX/SX-F models...and I'm not sure how different the suspension is between the two lines.)

rocketsocks26 wrote:

Unless your a woods rider or a straight away kid the opinions of the guys on ktmtalk are pretty much useless for motocross. Their are a few guys really knowledgeable on their but not too many with mx expierence, god forbid you have a diffrent opinion or disagree with someone on their especially if the company is a sponsor of ktmtalk, you ll be disaplinned like a 5yr old. Iol kreft or mxtech are both very good, but I would never spend that kind of money again on oem stuff. Personally id sell the 4cs and buy conevalve or ohlins

I am an off road rider. (Desert...not woods...but off road none the less...which is why I added the "for the record" paragraph).

I just find it telling when guys who eat, sleep, and breath orange are almost universally complaining about the 4cs. That means they are really bad.

And I'm absolutely serious when I say they are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this fall. If I'm spending almost $10K on a bike (a purpose build off road bike, mind you-XC) I'd better be able to make the stock forks work. As it sits, I'll be on either a YZ or KX 450...whichever one I can get the best deal (cheapest) on.

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8/21/2015 3:48 PM

I went from KYB SSS stuff, to the 4CS on my new Husky. Honestly, I have no real complaints. Set the clickers and sag and ride. In my opinion all these people crying over the forks on their new bikes are the same guys who spend too much time and money on their bike, rather than riding it. Mainly ride/race desert and woods if that matters. Just throwing out my 2 cents that for most all of us out there, stock suspension set up correctly for rider weight will be just fine. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but there are a plethora of things holding me back far more than my suspension.

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8/21/2015 3:53 PM

Titan1 wrote:

I am an off road rider. (Desert...not woods...but off road none the less...which is why I added the "for the record" paragraph).

I just find it telling when guys who eat, sleep, and breath orange are almost universally complaining about the 4cs. That means they are really bad.

And I'm absolutely serious when I say they are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this fall. If I'm spending almost $10K on a bike (a purpose build off road bike, mind you-XC) I'd better be able to make the stock forks work. As it sits, I'll be on either a YZ or KX 450...whichever one I can get the best deal (cheapest) on.

I think you need to try the forks for yourself before you give your opinion. You mention this magical "$1700" to make the forks work in numerous threads...and you have never ridden them yet. I've ridden a few different 4CS setups and have not found them to be any different than my 2011 350sx-f forks....actually off-road I think they were better.

In no way shape or form do you have to spend that kind of coin to make them work. A revalve with proper spring rates and I bet anyone would be more than happy.

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Jason Anderson FTW

8/21/2015 3:56 PM

PNWOffroad wrote:

I went from KYB SSS stuff, to the 4CS on my new Husky. Honestly, I have no real complaints. Set the clickers and sag and ride. In my opinion all these people crying over the forks on their new bikes are the same guys who spend too much time and money on their bike, rather than riding it. Mainly ride/race desert and woods if that matters. Just throwing out my 2 cents that for most all of us out there, stock suspension set up correctly for rider weight will be just fine. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but there are a plethora of things holding me back far more than my suspension.

The Husky 4cs suspension is slightly different than the KTM 4cs suspension (don't ask me how, but I think the Husky suspension is more similar to the KTM XC-W line...but the XC-W line is no good for racing). People have been more kind to the husky's than the KTM's (the husky forks seem to work better than the KTM.

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8/21/2015 4:01 PM

PNWOffroad wrote:

I went from KYB SSS stuff, to the 4CS on my new Husky. Honestly, I have no real complaints. Set the clickers and sag and ride. In my opinion all these people crying over the forks on their new bikes are the same guys who spend too much time and money on their bike, rather than riding it. Mainly ride/race desert and woods if that matters. Just throwing out my 2 cents that for most all of us out there, stock suspension set up correctly for rider weight will be just fine. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but there are a plethora of things holding me back far more than my suspension.

Titan1 wrote:

The Husky 4cs suspension is slightly different than the KTM 4cs suspension (don't ask me how, but I think the Husky suspension is more similar to the KTM XC-W line...but the XC-W line is no good for racing). People have been more kind to the husky's than the KTM's (the husky forks seem to work better than the KTM.

The only difference wit the Husky and KTM 4CS is valving. The fork function is going to be the same...

I agree, you just need to ride the forks and create your own opinion on them.

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8/21/2015 4:06 PM

rocketsocks26 wrote:

Unless your a woods rider or a straight away kid the opinions of the guys on ktmtalk are pretty much useless for motocross. Their are a few guys really knowledgeable on their but not too many with mx expierence, god forbid you have a diffrent opinion or disagree with someone on their especially if the company is a sponsor of ktmtalk, you ll be disaplinned like a 5yr old. Iol kreft or mxtech are both very good, but I would never spend that kind of money again on oem stuff. Personally id sell the 4cs and buy conevalve or ohlins

Titan1 wrote:

I am an off road rider. (Desert...not woods...but off road none the less...which is why I added the "for the record" paragraph).

I just find it telling when guys who eat, sleep, and breath orange are almost universally complaining about the 4cs. That means they are really bad.

And I'm absolutely serious when I say they are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this fall. If I'm spending almost $10K on a bike (a purpose build off road bike, mind you-XC) I'd better be able to make the stock forks work. As it sits, I'll be on either a YZ or KX 450...whichever one I can get the best deal (cheapest) on.

BobPA wrote:

I think you need to try the forks for yourself before you give your opinion. You mention this magical "$1700" to make the forks work in numerous threads...and you have never ridden them yet. I've ridden a few different 4CS setups and have not found them to be any different than my 2011 350sx-f forks....actually off-road I think they were better.

In no way shape or form do you have to spend that kind of coin to make them work. A revalve with proper spring rates and I bet anyone would be more than happy.

Maybe you're right, I'm not speaking from personal experience, so maybe I should keep my opinion to myself...

If you like them, though, then you are in the VAST minority of everyone else I know, and have read online.

I know many riders that have been on KTM for years, and are jumping ship because they don't like the 4cs forks.

Anyway, I'll trust the masses, and say they suck....with the disclaimer that I'm not speaking from personal experience. (I've just done a ton of research on them, read as many reviews, and test as I can...and they all, overwhelmingly, have one thing in common, the forks suck. And that's good enough for me, and my money. I'll buy another brand until KTM figures them out and the masses change their mind.)

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8/21/2015 4:14 PM

My 2cents is that my 4cs forks feel very harsh to me. But I also think I'm a bit light for the stock springs. I plan on having the right springs put in a revalve before I completely write the forks off.

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8/21/2015 4:48 PM

Titan1 wrote:

As far as I can tell (from a lot of research, including real world reports KTMtalk.com-from people who breath and bleed orange), they suck, and it costs about $1700 to get them to work right. KTMtalk.com almost unanimously recommends Kreft Moto to do it.

I've talk to several suspension tuners, who actually take out the entire 4cs system and replace it with Honda internals (again, cost to do that is about $1500-$1700).

The 4cs forks are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this year, it's hard to justify spending $10K on a bike and then needing to spend another $2K just to make the suspension ridable. (Unless they fixed them on the 16 models...and I'm anxiously waiting for some tests to be posted).


(Oh, for the record, I'm speaking from an off road perspective...on the XC/XC-F KTM's. I haven't done any research on the SX/SX-F models...and I'm not sure how different the suspension is between the two lines.)

rocketsocks26 wrote:

Unless your a woods rider or a straight away kid the opinions of the guys on ktmtalk are pretty much useless for motocross. Their are a few guys really knowledgeable on their but not too many with mx expierence, god forbid you have a diffrent opinion or disagree with someone on their especially if the company is a sponsor of ktmtalk, you ll be disaplinned like a 5yr old. Iol kreft or mxtech are both very good, but I would never spend that kind of money again on oem stuff. Personally id sell the 4cs and buy conevalve or ohlins

Titan1 wrote:

I am an off road rider. (Desert...not woods...but off road none the less...which is why I added the "for the record" paragraph).

I just find it telling when guys who eat, sleep, and breath orange are almost universally complaining about the 4cs. That means they are really bad.

And I'm absolutely serious when I say they are the reason I'm not buying a KTM this fall. If I'm spending almost $10K on a bike (a purpose build off road bike, mind you-XC) I'd better be able to make the stock forks work. As it sits, I'll be on either a YZ or KX 450...whichever one I can get the best deal (cheapest) on.

bud I don't blame ya on buying something else, I love my ktms but I put conevalves on them, again I know that's not for everyone, I have ridden every 450, the motors are all pretty close, and suspension is always gonna be personal, but I have ridden a yzf with f/c and a rmz with pr2 with $600 revalves and come off them blown away on how insanely good they are. In fact the rmz was so good I wanted one for the $$ its probably the best bike considering you can get them dirt cheap and with little $$$ have a national level bike

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8/21/2015 4:51 PM

I'm running 4CS on a '15 Husky. They work.

Go look up Tim Badour: he rode the bike at Pala on the big track and LOVED them.

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"Pearls and swine bereft of me. Long and weary my road has been."
Chris Cornell, 1964-2017

8/21/2015 6:47 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

I'm running 4CS on a '15 Husky. They work.

Go look up Tim Badour: he rode the bike at Pala on the big track and LOVED them.

TG...why do people seem to like (or at least make them work) the Husky 4cs, and hate the KTM 4cs?

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8/21/2015 7:06 PM

2015.5 FE base valve:

(3).10x28mm
(1).20x26mm
(1).25x24mm
(1).25x22mm
(2).25x20mm

mid valve

(5).10x17mm
(1).10x16mm
(1).10x14mm
(1).10x13mm


Can't imagine why they feel like crap stock...

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8/21/2015 7:09 PM

I have them on my new 450 SX-F FE.

On the internet everything sucks from rainbows to winning the lottery.

After I got mine set up by ENZO for my weight, riding skill, local tracks etc I think they are great forks.

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8/21/2015 7:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/21/2015 7:23 PM

This is my two cents worth....
1/ The 4 cs design is a money saver for the Factory

2/ the 4cs is slightly lighter than twin chamber

3/ the 4cs is no better design than the forks we had back in the very early 2000's
I was told 4cs was "loosely based" on a Ohlins TTX but "cheaper to make" I think it is much like the 2003/4
Kawasaki KYB Bladder fork ( which was KYB's piss poor response to the Showa 47mm Twin Chamber fork back in the day ).

4/ The 4cs fork uses a 8mm steel damper rod (that is drilled for the adjustment rod) this rod can not possibly support the weight of the bike and transmit the forces required to control bottoming....that is why they had to modify the bottoming system on the 15's by drilling 4 big holes in the bottom of the cone and throwing away teflon seal and removing the shim damping control the first model had .

The Damping system they built is flawed and oil gets blown out of the lower chamber into the top because the seals and pressurization system are ineffective at high shaft speeds.... the WP engineers cut a groove in the damper rod to "equalize the two cambers when the bike is topped out and oil can migrate back into the damper tube....to FIx the problem...I call that hiding the problem... the real world result of the systems failings are if you hit several big bumps quickly the damping tube will blow out most of it's oil and totally lose damping constancy ( that is why everyone when over to the Twin Chamber pressurized system ten year ago!)

5/ WP totally removed the Bottoming System on the 16 ! You don't need it don't need it apparently.......use do smaller jumps you will be fine!...

6/ KTM feels the 4cs is ok for the level of most riders buying the bike and that pro riders will buy the Cone Valve kit stuff if they don't like it.

7/ As a former Magazine technical editor I cant believe the motorcycle press hasn't reported the issue with both the Air fork and 4cs forks accurately.... Every KTM or Husky supported rider runs Cone valves and even the lower level guys are running the 14 twin chambers or running 4cs and hating their forks!

8/ The KTM Husk and WP sales,technical guys and dealers will talk you blue in the face and say they are ok.

9/ Most Suspension tuners will tell you they have a "great setting" for the 4cs

10/ The 2nd 3rd or 4th Suspension tuner you got to will tell you "that guy who worked on your forks last time" is an idiot"

11/ Customers please vote with their $$ and buy the Yamaha this year because they are the only ones that havent t sold out yet to the " bugger the Customer lets make some money! The twin chamber stuff is too good for them anyway! crew.


12/ as for Air forks ..............they don work as well as the better twin Chambers.

13/ Air Forks......................They don't last very long with out expensive problems....you wont want to own a 2 or three year old air for bike unless your ready to spend a $1000 on new internals

14/ in closing wake up world your being ripped off with a cheep poorly developed product that is way inferior to what was industry standard 2 year ago...............




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8/21/2015 9:42 PM

Just a heads up, the 4cs fork on the huskys is not the same as whats on the KTM's. The preload spring on the husky is lighter and much better on square edge hits. I had the preload spring swaped from a husky and fabricated to fit my KTM, they are not interchangeable between forks. I think thats why you will hear a lot more guys riding husky's saying there not so bad off road.

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8/22/2015 3:11 AM

mag23 wrote:

I just got a '16 150sx, and forks are actually decent... I've had a '14 150sx, and '13 450sxf in the past. I wasn't able to get the old 450 forks set up very well. The '16, I'm leaving stock for now. If you hate the 4cs forks that much, you might find some WP A kit forks on ebay...

buying 'A' kit forks to race at club level, after spending £6000 on a new bike, is not an option for me! just the idea of it seems ridiculous!

obviously we always get everything set up for me, correct springrates etc, but would never throw thousands on an already expensive bike, cant justify that!

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8/22/2015 3:18 AM

grunkster wrote:

ummm...stock 2013 was closed cartridge not 4cs.

in England the stock 2015 ktm350 still has the older style forks (not 4cs) - that's what im riding at the minute, ive heard a lot of people say the suspension isn't very good on this model bike but I love mine. Had some stiffer springs fitted and a revalve and its easily the best bike ive ever owned

the 2016 model bikes over here- ktm comes with air forks, the husky comes with 4cs, they are essentially the same bike other than that (few minor differences but the forks being the main one)

I do have a friend that has a 2016 ktm 350, going to ride that in a couple of weeks, but don't know anyone with a bike with 4cs forks that I can try, hence why I am trying to find any info I can on getting them set up

Im not that fussy with bikes, I can generally jump on someone elses bike and ride it fast straight away (sometimes I race my 87 cr 250 on the same day as my 350, and can go from one to the other relatively easily) - but I would be disappointed if I spent all that money on a new bike, for it to handle worse than my 2015 350 does

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8/22/2015 3:29 AM

Ross_McWatters wrote:

This is my two cents worth....
1/ The 4 cs design is a money saver for the Factory

2/ the 4cs is slightly lighter than twin chamber

3/ the 4cs is no better design than the forks we had back in the very early 2000's
I was told 4cs was "loosely based" on a Ohlins TTX but "cheaper to make" I think it is much like the 2003/4
Kawasaki KYB Bladder fork ( which was KYB's piss poor response to the Showa 47mm Twin Chamber fork back in the day ).

4/ The 4cs fork uses a 8mm steel damper rod (that is drilled for the adjustment rod) this rod can not possibly support the weight of the bike and transmit the forces required to control bottoming....that is why they had to modify the bottoming system on the 15's by drilling 4 big holes in the bottom of the cone and throwing away teflon seal and removing the shim damping control the first model had .

The Damping system they built is flawed and oil gets blown out of the lower chamber into the top because the seals and pressurization system are ineffective at high shaft speeds.... the WP engineers cut a groove in the damper rod to "equalize the two cambers when the bike is topped out and oil can migrate back into the damper tube....to FIx the problem...I call that hiding the problem... the real world result of the systems failings are if you hit several big bumps quickly the damping tube will blow out most of it's oil and totally lose damping constancy ( that is why everyone when over to the Twin Chamber pressurized system ten year ago!)

5/ WP totally removed the Bottoming System on the 16 ! You don't need it don't need it apparently.......use do smaller jumps you will be fine!...

6/ KTM feels the 4cs is ok for the level of most riders buying the bike and that pro riders will buy the Cone Valve kit stuff if they don't like it.

7/ As a former Magazine technical editor I cant believe the motorcycle press hasn't reported the issue with both the Air fork and 4cs forks accurately.... Every KTM or Husky supported rider runs Cone valves and even the lower level guys are running the 14 twin chambers or running 4cs and hating their forks!

8/ The KTM Husk and WP sales,technical guys and dealers will talk you blue in the face and say they are ok.

9/ Most Suspension tuners will tell you they have a "great setting" for the 4cs

10/ The 2nd 3rd or 4th Suspension tuner you got to will tell you "that guy who worked on your forks last time" is an idiot"

11/ Customers please vote with their $$ and buy the Yamaha this year because they are the only ones that havent t sold out yet to the " bugger the Customer lets make some money! The twin chamber stuff is too good for them anyway! crew.


12/ as for Air forks ..............they don work as well as the better twin Chambers.

13/ Air Forks......................They don't last very long with out expensive problems....you wont want to own a 2 or three year old air for bike unless your ready to spend a $1000 on new internals

14/ in closing wake up world your being ripped off with a cheep poorly developed product that is way inferior to what was industry standard 2 year ago...............




I still have a set of the older style WP forks from my 2012 km450 in the workshop- could I fit those to a 2016 model bike? if I used to older style spindle and wheel spacers? they fit in my 2015 350- are the clamps/ offset etc the same on the 2016s?

might be a quick, easy solution to the problem.

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