Voting with your wallet?

Related:
Create New Tag

10/2/2010 9:52 AM

That is a term I hear a lot of lately. Mostly I see or hear it used when people try and justify the rise of the four stroke and the fall of the two. However, if not for the double the displacement rule, how would that wallet vote have worked out ?

I see where people say that buying a used two stroke( or four stroke for that matter) off Craigslist won't send a message to the OEM's. But cheap bikes selling on CL while $8000.00 bikes collect dust in the showroom should be sending them a message too wouldn't you think?

I buy a absolute shitload of parts for all the bikes I either own or restore. I do a lot of voting with my wallet purchasing two stroke parts for older model bikes. Do you think they notice that ?

Or do I have this whole concept of "voting with my wallet" all wrong?

|

10/2/2010 10:08 AM

Good thing that Matthes won't read this, he'd be pissed.

|

10/2/2010 10:41 AM

Matthes seems to be all 4 $troke. But I always consider my source. And if Matthes wants to continue to have easy access to the teams and riders to make a living, he "will not" put down a four stroke. If he came out hatin on 4 strokes as killing our sport with cost and having an unfair displacement advantage, my guess is his access might start to become a little more limited as he would no longer be towing the "company line". That being said, he may actually like them better, but you will never truly know.

I think GuyB plays it about right on this forum without getting in "trouble".

In my opinion I think 2 strokes will have to make a comeback for this sport to grow again. When I was 16, in 1996 mind you, You could get a brand new 125 out the door for 4k, and a good used 1 year old bike for $2,500. Those days are long gone. Especially on the used bike side, cause now the used ones are time bombs that will cost more to fix than it did to buy. Hence nobody buying them. So I would say in the next couple of years the rules will have to change otherwise we will continue to spiral down with bike sales and track closings, which is a vicious cycle. Less tracks = less bike sells, less bike sells = less tracks.

And when and if that does happen, it will be interesting to see if Matthes and all those like him flip flop and jump ship back to the two strokes. But I think one thing that has to be understood is Matthes is like the "political elite" in Washington, not in touch with reality. While he may be at the races every weekend, he is not in touch with the reality of the average joe working 9 to 5 having to support his riding by actually buying a bike and parts and fixing them themselves without being a factory trained mechanic, and not getting them free from Kawi or whoever like like he used too.

That is ABSOLUTELY NOT a dig at Matthes, it is just pointing out where his loyalties lie and that you can't bite the hand that feeds you. I love all the stuff that guy puts out, except of course his anti 2 stroke stuff. One day maybe we will se him eat crowwink

|

BBBBRRRRRAAAAPPPPPPPP Two Stroke Taliban!!!!!

10/2/2010 10:50 AM

this again?

*runs to the corner store for popcorn, comes back, sits and eagerly hits refresh repeatedly*

|

17 KTM 450 SXF - AMAZING!

10/2/2010 10:55 AM

I don't think there is enough of guy's like you Joe who can even vote with their wallet.

Most of the new bikes are financed and all the gear and extra's thrown in then they run up the Credit card trying to be Ricky Carmichael.

afterward the bike goes on CL to pay the house payment and us guy's who work everyday and pay bills bail everyone out with our tax dollars.

So 2 stroke or 4 stroke it doesn't matter unless a person can get approved for financing.

|

10/2/2010 11:03 AM

If we can get that petition allowing 150cc two strokes to race against 250cc four strokes and 300cc two strokes to race against 450cc two strokes to pass then i think we will see a change in our sport for the better. Privateers have to pay out of their own wallet, they dont have these factory rides. Four strokes cost way to much for the average privateer to keep running in race condition. Two strokes are their best bet at making it to the races with a solid race bike, and have some extra cash in their pockets.

|

Follow me on instagram: Instagram.com/mxwes

10/2/2010 11:05 AM

500guy wrote:

I don't think there is enough of guy's like you Joe who can even vote with their wallet.

Most of the new bikes are financed ...more

I agree that 2 stroke or 4 stroke it doesn't really matter today. The fact that a 250 lb. dirt bike is retailing for $8000.00 and a 3000 lb Kia with damn near a dozen air bags is in the $11,000.00 range just doesn't compute. Lots more labor hours and materials in the Kia.

|

10/2/2010 11:05 AM

I have been voting with my wallet. I have decided NOT to buy any 4 stroke MX bikes,The MXoN was the last race I will spend money to go see,I will never buy anything from Honda,I will never pay for a AMA membership again. I am spending the money that I did spend on MX in other places. SkiDoo snowmobiles, Hot Rods, Guns , Computers and electronics, Motorhome,etc. I didnt leave motocross , motocross left me.

|

Ed Johnson

10/2/2010 11:07 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/2/2010 11:10 AM

couchdriver412 wrote:

Matthes seems to be all 4 $troke. But I always consider my source. And if Matthes wants to continue to have easy access to the ...more

WTF should anyone care what you could buy in 1996? Is it 1996? No its nearly 15 years later, 2011. Min wage was $4.75 per hour, today its $7.25 or about a 50% increase. You can buy new 250F's for $6K. Seems relative and considering that a 2011 250F is an unbelievably superior piece of equipment to any 1996 model 125. I'd say its a fair trade.



I love 2 strokes. A lot of fun to ride not so much fun to race, IMHO. I'd like to see the displacement limits changed to 175/350 just because that will make for some awesome bikes HOWEVER I am just so over the current crop of Two Stroke lovers and your absolutely dumbshit rants about the conspiracy to eliminate them and that it all political..... blah blah blah blah fucking blah!!!!!!! If two strokes sell then somebody is going to make them. My hearty suggestion is beat a freakin path to that showroom and buy one!!



Until then enjoy your vintage bike.

|

10/2/2010 11:07 AM

Its not thay most of us two stroke fans hate the four strokes, we just want to see the rules changed a little bit so two strokes can have a freakin chance. Two strokes are what started this sport and made it what it is to this day, its ridiculous that they have kept the rule as is even when they know that two strokes dont have a chance against these four bangers.

|

Follow me on instagram: Instagram.com/mxwes

10/2/2010 11:09 AM

newmann wrote:

I agree that 2 stroke or 4 stroke it doesn't really matter today. The fact that a 250 lb. dirt bike is retailing for $8000.00 ...more

and a shitload more Kia's to spread the costs over. I bet you think that a $500K F1 car is over priced too.

Come on man its not the same.

|

10/2/2010 11:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/2/2010 11:26 AM

keeptwostrokesalive wrote:

Its not thay most of us two stroke fans hate the four strokes, we just want to see the rules changed a little bit so two ...more

I agree 100%.......... DC could have changed it but let the OEMs and teams like Pro Circuit tell him how it is going to be. Its a business decision and I respect that even though I think its short sighted,they all made it and there is nothing we can do about it. Motocross could go away and it would not affect Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki. KTM it might but the aftermarkets like pro circuit would be in trouble. If the powers in charge want to make it so most people can't afford to race or just decide its not the worth the cost anymore {like me} than so be it. I raced for 35 years so I am over it, but I am pointing my kids and the money I would have spent for them to race in another direction.

|

Ed Johnson

10/2/2010 11:18 AM

two strokes are for those effin gheys. its too bad its over time to let go no body listens to techno, now lets go

|

10/2/2010 11:19 AM

I can see it now. Honda comes out with a brand new direct injected/fuel injected 275 two stroke at a smoking hot deal of $7995. Light weight fast as hell. They will sell a bunch right off the bat and then people will start calling bull shit because their old two stroke only cost them $4000.

The older guy that could afford the new $7995 two stroke all of a sudden realizes that he liked that smooth lazy power of his old four stroke plus he forgot how much he hated mixing gas. Well he goes to trade it in but finds he can't get anything for it because there is still some on the floor because the young racers still aren't working and still have no money to go buy a new bike(two or four stroke).

|

10/2/2010 11:20 AM

$7000 250 two strokes will collect dust on the dealers floors along with the $8000 450 four strokes.

BOTH are out of the average persons disposable income level except for the vet riders.

|

10/2/2010 11:24 AM

Oh yeah, here locally the 250 two stroke races the 250 four stroke. The 450 class is open. Run what you brung.

We have 2 pretty fast A riders that have KTM 250 two strokes that have been left at home most of the season because they are blown up. Still riding their 450's.

|

10/2/2010 11:27 AM

I really am not sure what the problem is. The manufacturers are pretty clear, if you dont have the money to play, then piss off. Look, its a club, and if you are poor, we don't want you in it. You think guys that just bought a eight thousand dollar bike or more wanna ride a track with some goon on his clapped out ride? I dont care how fast he is, his gear looks tattered, his bike looks beat and he needs to get off my track.

To me its like a way of saying, "hey, fuck you poor guy, this is what you could have with a real job, loser". It's very motivating to look down on you and use that to enhance my confidence, which will ensure further income and my ability to buy expensive bikes. Quit blaming the manufacturers and blame yourself for not reaching for more in your life.

What you need is confidence so you can get a better job and finally get a life and learn to appreciate the finer things in life. Ass pennys, is my guaranteed program to improve life and make you a king of your domain!

Then you too can afford a new bike and see whats it all about and stop the insanity of living in the past

|

10/2/2010 11:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/2/2010 11:30 AM

Towelie wrote:

two strokes are for those effin gheys. its too bad its over time to let go no body listens to techno, now lets go

And Moby? You can get stomped by Obie
You thirty-six year old baldheaded fag, blow me
You don't know me, you're too old, let go
It's over, nobody listen to techno

|

Ed Johnson

10/2/2010 11:39 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/2/2010 11:40 AM

Towelie wrote:

I really am not sure what the problem is. The manufacturers are pretty clear, if you dont have the money to play, then piss ...more

This is the most ridiculous comment i have ever read. So what if a guy shows up at a track thats a complete goon, we all start somewhere. You cant tell me the first time you hopped on a bike you rode like ricky carmicheal. All the pros started out as goons and worked their way up. If rich people were the only ones riding at tracks then we wouldnt have any more tracks left in america because not everybody is rich. Many people are fortunate and have a good paying job, but some people work their butts off and make minimum wage. When i see goons at my local track i encourage them to keep practicing and someday they will get faster because they worked at it. That is all i have to say.

|

Follow me on instagram: Instagram.com/mxwes

10/2/2010 11:44 AM

WORCSRacer wrote:

WTF should anyone care what you could buy in 1996? Is it 1996? No its nearly 15 years later, 2011. Min wage was $4.75 per ...more

Whoa slow down. Nobody making $4.25 an hour in 1996 was buying a 4k dollar motorcycle. And nobody in 2010 making $7.25 an hour is buying a $6,000 dollar motorcycle. So minimum wage has nothing to do with this. However I will state for the record that in 1997 I was a diesel mechanic making $15 an hour, and while I am no longer a mechanic, several of my friends are, and they make about the same.

When you say "WTF should anyone care what you could buy in 1996?" Well at face value, nothing... You live in Cali where MX is still pretty strong, But in alot of other places in this great nation things aren't so well. So if you want to figure out why tracks and dealerships are closing, you have to look at history. You see while bike prices have jumped 50%, your average blue collar workers pay has not jumped 50 percent at all. No where close. Therefore just a marginal increase on the price of a new bike will put it out of reach of your average blue collar guy. This now has become just a small slice of the pie. Maintenance cost have went up probably 300%, and when you factor in the fact that most of those guys would fix their own two stroke, and cannot fix their own 4 stroke, those cost multiply even more. That puts the cost of owning a 4 stroke out of reach for most of the people who would make up the core of the sport.

|

BBBBRRRRRAAAAPPPPPPPP Two Stroke Taliban!!!!!

10/2/2010 11:44 AM

Towelie wrote:

I really am not sure what the problem is. The manufacturers are pretty clear, if you dont have the money to play, then piss ...more

keeptwostrokesalive wrote:

This is the most ridiculous comment i have ever read. So what if a guy shows up at a track thats a complete goon, we all start ...more

I may be wrong but I think Towelie was be sarcastic.

|

Ed Johnson

10/2/2010 11:56 AM

keeptwostrokesalive wrote:

This is the most ridiculous comment i have ever read. So what if a guy shows up at a track thats a complete goon, we all start ...more

I think the sarcasm train bowled you over and you didn't even notice.

|

10/2/2010 11:59 AM

rmgsxr wrote:

I can see it now. Honda comes out with a brand new direct injected/fuel injected 275 two stroke at a smoking hot deal of ...more

DFI 2 strokes will have the same type of smooth lazy power you speak of and you will not have to mix gas, simply add oil to the oil tank ala yamaha blasters

|

10/2/2010 12:00 PM

lostboy819 wrote:

I may be wrong but I think Towelie was be sarcastic.

I think we are both a little wrong, in a way that reaches across isles. Look, this is a confidence thing. You get confidence by using Ass Pennys, everyday you stick 100 pennies up your ass and then spend them. I have been doing this for 17 years. Every time I shake someones hand I look them in the eye and realize they have probably handled one of my ass pennies. I dont want people who have handled my ass pennies on my track.

|

10/2/2010 12:02 PM

keeptwostrokesalive wrote:

This is the most ridiculous comment i have ever read. So what if a guy shows up at a track thats a complete goon, we all start ...more

lostboy819 wrote:

I may be wrong but I think Towelie was be sarcastic.

Towelie wrote:

I think we are both a little wrong, in a way that reaches across isles. Look, this is a confidence thing. You get confidence ...more

So were you being serious or sarcastic. You seemed pretty serious to me.

|

Follow me on instagram: Instagram.com/mxwes

10/2/2010 12:15 PM

keeptwostrokesalive wrote:

This is the most ridiculous comment i have ever read. So what if a guy shows up at a track thats a complete goon, we all start ...more

lostboy819 wrote:

I may be wrong but I think Towelie was be sarcastic.

Towelie wrote:

I think we are both a little wrong, in a way that reaches across isles. Look, this is a confidence thing. You get confidence ...more

I dont know brother, My ass is a one way street and I am not in the habbit of sticking pennys or anything else where the sun don't shine so I will just have to take your word for it . And from now on when I get coins back for a purchase I will just let them keep the change. wink

|

Ed Johnson

10/2/2010 12:45 PM

couchdriver412 wrote:

Matthes seems to be all 4 $troke. But I always consider my source. And if Matthes wants to continue to have easy access to the ...more

WORCSRacer wrote:

WTF should anyone care what you could buy in 1996? Is it 1996? No its nearly 15 years later, 2011. Min wage was $4.75 per ...more

couchdriver412 wrote:

Whoa slow down. Nobody making $4.25 an hour in 1996 was buying a 4k dollar motorcycle. And nobody in 2010 making $7.25 an hour ...more

Have to Agree with couchdriver on this, I've been in the Tile and remodeling Business for the last 15 years and let's just say I'm not making anymore than I did 15 years ago! With the Economy tanked nobody can afford these $8000 bike. Min. wage from 96 to current is irrelevant. I'm making less now than I did 4-5 years ago just to stay alive as of right now I don't have a bike (had to sell to pay bills) and as current prices go up I won't be getting one anytime soon. Also I've been involved in MX for 20+ yrs.

|

10/2/2010 12:52 PM

I really don't think the manufactureres give a shit because it is the dealer that is on the hook for the bikes on the floor. The Manufacturer tells them what they are going to stock and if they don't like it they pull the franchise and someone else gets dictated to.

|

10/2/2010 1:01 PM

Nutty C wrote:

I really don't think the manufactureres give a shit because it is the dealer that is on the hook for the bikes on the floor. ...more

Nutty I dont know what dealership you worked at or if you even did work at one but that is not the way it works.......The dealership submits orders and quantities based on the last years sales trends thus they dictate the quantities of each model/bike not the mfg. Some MFG's like Honda have ridiculous rules and stipulations to being able to carry their line of bikes, atv's, PWC's and UTV's ...... The dealer is not on the hook other than having to pay a "flooring" fee which is monthly, same as car dealers. The economy is in the shitter and bike prices are not only inflated but have not adjusted to the current economic numbers factor in the dollar/yen currency rate and you get 8k bikes......if thats too high just wait till the new years models come out and but the previous years model for 3k less and the reason the prices on last years models drop so drastically is because the mfg sends out rebates to the dealers so they can sell the leftover bikes for less and still make their %.

|

10/2/2010 1:23 PM

Lightning78 wrote:

Nutty I dont know what dealership you worked at or if you even did work at one but that is not the way it works.......The ...more

In Ontario you got to carry the line . You can't pick and choose

|