Vital MX Forum QNA: Ross Maeda

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ML512
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Edited Date/Time 4/10/2017 4:41pm


This week's guest in the Vital MX forum QNA is Ross Maeda. Ross is one of the most well-known and recognizable faces in the pits due to his long-time association with KYB, plus his own suspension shop Enzo Racing. Outside of being a suspension guru, he's also one of the nicest and most helpful guys around, and has a list of hilarious stories a few miles long.

Since he got his start at KYB in 1976 (first as a test rider, then technician, and finally an engineer), he's had a hand in almost every top rider's career you can name off. Such as Bob Hannah, Roger Decoster, Mark Barnett, Jeff Emig, Jeremy McGrath, Ricky Carmichael, Chad Reed, James Stewart, Ryan Villopoto, and the list goes on-and-on. While he still works with KYB on a daily basis, he also has his own suspension shop known as Enzo Racing, which was started out of his garage and know holds down a solid shop in California. Outside of his shim changing and development duties, Ross spent years racing and riding all over the world, growing up as a local pro in Southern California and riding up into the late 2000s, until a spinal cord injury in late 2009. Even with this, his love for moto and the sport has been unshaken.

I'm lucky enough to have worked for the Bossman himself, so I've already asked him a million and one questions... but what would you like to ask him? Remember to bring your best questions, as he'll be peeking in here this week to answer them. As always, keep it respectful, and ask questions that you would like in a face-to-face meeting.

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Matt Fisher 4/19/2016 10:41am
4/19/2016 10:41am
Thanks for coming to Vital Ross.

Two questions:
1) since you've worked with an amazing variety of top riders, what seems to separate the ones that can give better feedback and are truly helpful in development vs the ones that can't tell a broomstick from their ProTapers?
2) whether Pro or weekend warrior, what would be an effective way to improve any rider's ability to discern what the suspension is doing and how to make changes to improve the bike? In other words, how can riders improve their sense of what's happening with the suspension while they ride?
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Brent 4/19/2016 11:29am
4/19/2016 11:29am
Hey Ross, thank you for bringing your expertise to the forum.

My question is about fork subtanks. The best suspension I have ever ridden was on a CRF 450 that you did for your brother years ago, and it had a subtank system installed.

I never see them anymore-are they still available, and do you think they can improve the KYB SSS fork performance on square edge bumps? Thanks!
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Slosh 112 4/19/2016 11:35am
4/19/2016 11:35am
Hi mate. I have recently started to rebuild all of my own suspension, no revalving or anything at the moment, just rebuilding, seemed like the next logical step to learn. Do you have any advice for somebody just getting into it as far as what to look for during the rebuild and testing process?

With all the types of suspension and with all the different combinations of coatings you can get done now, what is your favourite? Kashima? DLC? Ti-Nitrate?, Air or spring forks? And what would be your ultimate suspension package if money was no object and Why?

Thanks mate.
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colintrax 4/19/2016 11:38am
4/19/2016 11:38am
Hi Ross, thanks for coming on here.
With so many pros opting to run springs, do you think the air forks will die off again or do you think they're here to stay?
Also, many on these forums and magazines say the KYB SSS forks are the holy grail, what's your opinion?

The Shop

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dbrunski125 4/19/2016 11:47am
4/19/2016 11:47am
Is there a big advantage to running a titanium shock spring besides weight? I've noticed it seems roughly half of the factory riders run one while half don't? Does it really just come down to rider preference?
Ross Maeda
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 12:03pm
4/19/2016 12:03pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
Thanks for coming to Vital Ross. Two questions: 1) since you've worked with an amazing variety of top riders, what seems to separate the ones that...
Thanks for coming to Vital Ross.

Two questions:
1) since you've worked with an amazing variety of top riders, what seems to separate the ones that can give better feedback and are truly helpful in development vs the ones that can't tell a broomstick from their ProTapers?
2) whether Pro or weekend warrior, what would be an effective way to improve any rider's ability to discern what the suspension is doing and how to make changes to improve the bike? In other words, how can riders improve their sense of what's happening with the suspension while they ride?
1. I've found that riders that are very sensitive to feeling suspension characteristics aren't always the ones with a lot of experience. Some riders just feel a lot of things when riding and others do not. I don't know if they are paying more attention to what they are feeling than concentrating on riding fast, but some riders just have that trait. It doesn't really have that much to do with their speed either, some lower level riders are able to pick up on things going on that others do not. so to answer your question, I just have to work with the rider to find that out.

2. The best way to learn how to feel what their bike is doing suspension wise, is to try different adjustments and try to feel what they do on the track. Try different sag heights, fork tube positions, etc. I've told riders to learn what the adjustments do so that when they are between motos and have a problem, they will know whether to go 2 clicks stiffer or 10.
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aedwards07 4/19/2016 12:09pm
4/19/2016 12:09pm
Ross,

Thanks for doing this. I love reading your Facebook stories and always get to check out the cool things you are working on. 2 questions for you.

1. I see you are doing a lot with the shock subtank. What is the purpose of the subtank and what are the adjustments for on the subtank? Will this be available to the public?

2. What is your opinion on the KYB PSF2 fork?

Thanks!
Ross Maeda
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 12:22pm
4/19/2016 12:22pm
Brent wrote:
Hey Ross, thank you for bringing your expertise to the forum. My question is about fork subtanks. The best suspension I have ever ridden was on...
Hey Ross, thank you for bringing your expertise to the forum.

My question is about fork subtanks. The best suspension I have ever ridden was on a CRF 450 that you did for your brother years ago, and it had a subtank system installed.

I never see them anymore-are they still available, and do you think they can improve the KYB SSS fork performance on square edge bumps? Thanks!
The function of the fork subtank system is provide a 'speed sensitive spring characteristic in the front fork. If you were to just lower your oil level dramatically (increase your air volume), it would make the fork feel very soft and plush, but it would dive and bottom out. A higher oil level will provide better bottoming resistance, but it will create an overly progressive spring character and feel harsh quickly when the fork compresses. With the subtank system, it provides a large air volume but separates it into two chambers with a restrictive adjustment between them. The idea is to run a high oil level in the fork, higher than normal, and install the subtanks. When the fork compresses slowly, both volumes (the main oil level air volume and the subtank volume) compress giving the feeling of a low oil level (big air chamber). But when the fork is compressed faster, the restriction between the two chambers causes the oil level air chamber to compress more than the one in the subtank so it gives the feeling of a high oil level. This system worked very well on the "open bath" type fork system, but with the air/oil separate systems like SSS, it is not as effective because the secondary damping systems prevent bottoming with damping rather than spring force. We found that if we ran a super high oil level in the SSS type fork, the secondary bottoming mechanisms (restrictive spring perches) would kick in too soon and feel harsh. So we couldn't run a super high oil level in that type of fork. The advantages of the subtank system only became plusher initial action, and not better bottoming resistance...
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mxrose3 4/19/2016 12:48pm
4/19/2016 12:48pm
Hi Ross, thanks for coming in and answering questions.
I've got an older steel shock body of yours on a 2006 YZ250 two stroke. It was a two piece design with a steel body / aluminum resiviour. I took it apart recently, and noticed there still was hardly any wear inside the steel body.
Is this still the hot setup versus all aluminum body? If so, why don't more of the factories adopt this?
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waitn4 4/19/2016 2:28pm
4/19/2016 2:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2016 2:29pm
I have talked with a few local tuners in Alaska and have a conundrum. My suspension feels soft in the woods and stiff at the motocross track. They say that it should be the opposite and that I just need to ride faster at the track. But the bike is twitchy and responds violently to the motocross tracks.

I am 185lbs 6'1" long arms and legs riding a 2008 yz250 with race tech intermediate motocross valving and .46 and 5.4 springs 95mm sag and flush front forks. I have my clickers centered and 1.5 high speed.

I feel like I need stiffer springs and much softer compression dampening. When I reduce compression damping right now the chassis starts to wallow. Please help me cause I am at my wits end.

Ross Maeda
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:01pm
4/19/2016 3:01pm
Slosh 112 wrote:
Hi mate. I have recently started to rebuild all of my own suspension, no revalving or anything at the moment, just rebuilding, seemed like the next...
Hi mate. I have recently started to rebuild all of my own suspension, no revalving or anything at the moment, just rebuilding, seemed like the next logical step to learn. Do you have any advice for somebody just getting into it as far as what to look for during the rebuild and testing process?

With all the types of suspension and with all the different combinations of coatings you can get done now, what is your favourite? Kashima? DLC? Ti-Nitrate?, Air or spring forks? And what would be your ultimate suspension package if money was no object and Why?

Thanks mate.
Rebuilding your suspension is no different than splitting the cases on your bike: the more you do it, the easier it becomes. Unfortunately, unless you work in a suspension shop you won't get that much practice doing it because it doesn't need to be done that often. My advice to you is to make sure you have all the proper tools and replacement parts you need before you get started. Try to keep everything clean and take your time. As far as advice for anyone starting with suspension, I always suggest testing your bike BEFORE you rebuild it, then after it is rebuilt with clean oil and new parts, test it again to feel how much better the fresh condition of the component is. Sometimes just keeping your suspension in good working condition is overlooked before diving into heavy component modifications.
Regarding upgrade surface coatings to reduce friction, we have had the best results with Kashima coating on aluminum surfaces and DLC on steel surfaces. Personally I prefer the KYB PSF air fork but mostly because of the wide range of tunability they have over the coil spring fork. I was injured before I ever got to ride the latest air forks, but I had experience with the early systems KYB produced in the seventies, and I liked them too. AIr spring and coil spring have advantages and disadvantages over each other, and each rider can have their preferences, but for sure, I believe that finding the best setting with either requires some testing.
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TeamRags 4/19/2016 3:02pm
4/19/2016 3:02pm
Just curious, when looking for aftermarket suspension, is there really a difference between the Enzo, RG3 or Factory Connection components or, is the difference really in the service and ability to dial in the suspension for the consumer/rider? Thanks for your time!
Ross Maeda
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:18pm
4/19/2016 3:18pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2016 3:58pm
colintrax wrote:
Hi Ross, thanks for coming on here. With so many pros opting to run springs, do you think the air forks will die off again or...
Hi Ross, thanks for coming on here.
With so many pros opting to run springs, do you think the air forks will die off again or do you think they're here to stay?
Also, many on these forums and magazines say the KYB SSS forks are the holy grail, what's your opinion?
I cannot speak for pros on teams using SHOWA or WP, but as far as teams supported by KYB, only Chad Reed, Eli Tomac and Jeremy Martin have chosen coil spring forks over air spring. All three of those riders chose coil spring forks for their own reasons, but all of them had good results with air forks and did not hate them. Personally I believe that the KYB PSF air fork works extremely well, and I don't see it dying off for professional racing. That said, I do personally believe that air fork systems do not belong on production bikes because the general public is not capable or willing to do what is necessary to get the fork to work at its best. The average customer just wants to ride his bike without doing additional maintenance. Regarding the KYB SSS fork (also called AOS) being "the holy grail", I believe this is only being said because of the current wave of dissatisfaction with air forks. For sure the SSS is a state of the art design for motocross front forks, but when it was the only game in town, people were not singing its praises as highly! If all bikes go back to that design, it will be met with the usual criticism that all production components get.
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Ted722 4/19/2016 3:19pm
4/19/2016 3:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2016 3:30pm
Ross,
1. Did the KYB move to India ever happen? If so, did it change anything in your day to day?

2. I was probably one of the few that liked the progressive springs on my '98 KX250, but all the local shops
preferred to go back to a straight rate. Did you like that setup? What prompted Kawasaki to go that route?

Thanks!
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Phillip_Lamb 4/19/2016 3:27pm
4/19/2016 3:27pm
Hey thanks for taking the time to answer our questions

i have a 06 kx450 and from what i've found the forks were somewhat unique to this year model.

So my question is would it be worth the money to buy newer components or would just upgrading what i have be good?

Ross Maeda
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:28pm
4/19/2016 3:28pm
mxrose3 wrote:
Hi Ross, thanks for coming in and answering questions. I've got an older steel shock body of yours on a 2006 YZ250 two stroke. It was...
Hi Ross, thanks for coming in and answering questions.
I've got an older steel shock body of yours on a 2006 YZ250 two stroke. It was a two piece design with a steel body / aluminum resiviour. I took it apart recently, and noticed there still was hardly any wear inside the steel body.
Is this still the hot setup versus all aluminum body? If so, why don't more of the factories adopt this?
The kit shock body that you have actually has an aluminum cylinder, not steel. The reason for the two piece design was to be able to use "pipe" material for the actual cylinder rather than a casting. THe pipe material is "denser" aluminum, probably extruded, while casting is more porous therefore expands less consistently when hot. Ohlins and WP use or use to use steel for the cylinder for the better wear feature. But the argument used to be that steel does not dissipate heat as well as aluminum and possibly would expand more. Currently, the Japanese factories do not use the 2 piece design anymore because now they just machine the entire body out of billet aluminum and that material is much more consistent than casting, but very expensive!
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kiwifan 4/19/2016 3:28pm
4/19/2016 3:28pm
With all the talk about from forks and airforks in particular, I am interested in your thought around what is the best shock you can use? Some swear by the top of the line Ohlins shocks...thoughts?
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:33pm
4/19/2016 3:33pm
waitn4 wrote:
I have talked with a few local tuners in Alaska and have a conundrum. My suspension feels soft in the woods and stiff at the motocross...
I have talked with a few local tuners in Alaska and have a conundrum. My suspension feels soft in the woods and stiff at the motocross track. They say that it should be the opposite and that I just need to ride faster at the track. But the bike is twitchy and responds violently to the motocross tracks.

I am 185lbs 6'1" long arms and legs riding a 2008 yz250 with race tech intermediate motocross valving and .46 and 5.4 springs 95mm sag and flush front forks. I have my clickers centered and 1.5 high speed.

I feel like I need stiffer springs and much softer compression dampening. When I reduce compression damping right now the chassis starts to wallow. Please help me cause I am at my wits end.

I do not know what has been done internally to your components, so I am not qualified to tell you what needs to be done. All I can say is that you need to go back to the technician that did your work and explain to him what your problems are.

Pit Row

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ML512 4/19/2016 3:38pm
4/19/2016 3:38pm
What DOING!?
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:40pm
4/19/2016 3:40pm
TeamRags wrote:
Just curious, when looking for aftermarket suspension, is there really a difference between the Enzo, RG3 or Factory Connection components or, is the difference really in...
Just curious, when looking for aftermarket suspension, is there really a difference between the Enzo, RG3 or Factory Connection components or, is the difference really in the service and ability to dial in the suspension for the consumer/rider? Thanks for your time!
The goal of any suspension shop is to satisfy the customer with his suspension requirements. If you are referring to aftermarket COMPONENTS such as SHOWA or KYB kit components, both companies produce them and distribute them through different distributors. Enzo builds KYB kit components using some different parts than what comes on the official KYB version, and naturally we believe that they are an improvement. All 3 companies you mentioned will stand behind their work and work with the customer to their satisfaction.
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:46pm
4/19/2016 3:46pm
Ted722 wrote:
Ross, 1. Did the KYB move to India ever happen? If so, did it change anything in your day to day? 2. I was probably one...
Ross,
1. Did the KYB move to India ever happen? If so, did it change anything in your day to day?

2. I was probably one of the few that liked the progressive springs on my '98 KX250, but all the local shops
preferred to go back to a straight rate. Did you like that setup? What prompted Kawasaki to go that route?

Thanks!
1. KYB did not move to India. They are possibly considering the idea of building a manufacturing plant there, but I do not know.

2. Personally I did not like the progressive spring rate set up on the production '98 KX line. I felt that they allowed the fork to dive excessively. THe combination of coil spring and air spring (oil level air volume) creates a linear spring rate then progressively climbs in the later part of stroke. The progressive springs made the fork feel like it had a dip in the first half of travel in my opinion... I have no idea why Kawasaki chose to use that type of spring..
Ross Maeda
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 3:51pm
4/19/2016 3:51pm
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
Hey thanks for taking the time to answer our questions i have a 06 kx450 and from what i've found the forks were somewhat unique to...
Hey thanks for taking the time to answer our questions

i have a 06 kx450 and from what i've found the forks were somewhat unique to this year model.

So my question is would it be worth the money to buy newer components or would just upgrading what i have be good?

The '06 KXF450 used a version of the AOS (SSS) damping system with different "secondary damping" arrangement. Instead of a spring perch, it used kind of a long oil lock system in the inner tube to provide damping independent of the internal cartridge. For sure, the later model AOS fork worked better, but if you are satisfied with the performance of your fork, I would concentrate on working with it.
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ML512 4/19/2016 4:32pm
4/19/2016 4:32pm
I'll take this out of the technical range for a question...

Who was the rider you were most nervous or worried about working with?
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Phillip_Lamb 4/19/2016 4:41pm
4/19/2016 4:41pm
piggy backing off the prior^^^

who was the most difficult to work with? who was the most enjoyable
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Jbulz 4/19/2016 4:53pm
4/19/2016 4:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2016 4:56pm
Hey Ross, I am a big Enzo fan - funny coincidence that I just called you yesterday out of the blue (I was the one who was looking for replacement Enzo stickers for my 2003 YZ125 that you re-valved for me like a decade ago. I still love the suspension on the bike even though it is very outdated/low tech!). I also had you do my 2006 RM250 and now my brother's 2013 YZ125 suspension is at your shop as we speak.

Anyway, am an automotive engineer who really likes to make data-driven decisions, and have always struggled with the subjective nature of suspension calibration.

How much do you guys rely on dyno testing and simulation/ models to make improvements on suspension? As the suspension systems get more complex do you foresee there being an advantage to this type of approach compared to track testing? I know there are simple shim-stack modeling packages out there that can help you get close, but I think there may be some untapped potential in the 1-D and 3-D CFD realm...

John
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zehn 4/19/2016 4:55pm
4/19/2016 4:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2016 5:01pm
Hi Ross, thanks for coming by to share your knowledge with us.

My question is, how often have you worked with a guy that had "their" setup (i.e. a prototypical way to setup the suspension)? What was it like working with this type of rider? Were you ever able to get them to come around on a different setup or way of approaching the suspension?

You don't have to name any names, but I've always wondered about this.
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Sully 4/19/2016 5:13pm
4/19/2016 5:13pm
Hi Ross, thanks for doing this. I don't have a question, I just wanted to say that your podcast with Matthes a few years ago was one of the best he's done. I know you've had a pretty storied career in the industry, but until that podcast, I had no idea just how much you've done.
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Jbulz 4/19/2016 5:15pm
4/19/2016 5:15pm
Sully wrote:
Hi Ross, thanks for doing this. I don't have a question, I just wanted to say that your podcast with Matthes a few years ago was...
Hi Ross, thanks for doing this. I don't have a question, I just wanted to say that your podcast with Matthes a few years ago was one of the best he's done. I know you've had a pretty storied career in the industry, but until that podcast, I had no idea just how much you've done.
+1
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jmc2 4/19/2016 6:08pm
4/19/2016 6:08pm
Ross, I am a therapist here in AZ that works with SCI and traumatic brain injury clients. I met you a few years back at the USGP at Glen Helen and I am wondering what you do to stay active/healthy when not working? Standing frame? Stim bike?
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Ross Maeda 4/19/2016 6:19pm
4/19/2016 6:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/20/2016 12:16am
ML512 wrote:
I'll take this out of the technical range for a question...

Who was the rider you were most nervous or worried about working with?
By far, the rider that made me the most nervous working for was my childhood idol, Roger DeCoster. I had gotten his autograph when I was 13, and had the autographed picture out of the program on my wall for years. I saw him several times later at Trans Am events and the USGP at Carlsbad, but never actually talked to him again until I'd started working for KYB and actually went to some race bike testing around 1976-77. Mostly I just sat back saying nothing but hanging on his every word. One time I was at a test with SUZUKI and Roger, and I had to test some shocks or something, so I was riding on the same day as Roger. After the day was over, Roger came over to my truck where I had my personal RM125 loaded up. Roger was studying my bike, which had works forks and shocks on it, but also a MILLER MANO pipe. Roger asked me about the pipe: "Did you feel an difference with this pipe?" I answered, "Well, by itself, it wasn't that much better, but with porting and carburetor, it made quite a bit of difference." Then he said, "So just the pipe alone, you only felt a difference in your WALLET?" I stopped for a second and realized he was cutting me down! "That's what's wrong with you American kids: you spend all your money on stupid things that don't make you any faster, instead of practicing and improving yourself!" At that moment, I realized that not only was he NOT impressed with my blazing speed, he also thought I was an idiot! At first I felt a twinge of anger, as if I would say, "LET'S RACE DUDE!!" But it was quickly replaced with shame and embarrassment. I was heartbroken for a long time, it made me realize that just because I really liked someone, it didn't guarantee that he would like me back! I got over it as time went on, Roger was always nice to me, and I remember one of the Japanese engineers telling me that Roger had asked about me when the engineer was in Europe. From then on, I thought we were BROS!

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