Visual override by the AMA?

jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
2/19/2012 6:10pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2012 6:53pm
Just wanted to state my opinion on this too....and that is......


" Weston got completely fucked over last night!!!! "


I'm actually still in shock over those stupid fuckers at the FIM.......how in the hell can you use a visual.......when the transponder does it's job just fine??

Seriously...........that is EXACTLY like typing up a math problem on a calculator....reading it.....and then disagreeing with it!

Fucking stupid. Feel terrible for Weston and I bet his dad aint to happy either. Would you?
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
2/19/2012 6:14pm
LouDog wrote:
We got screwed Weston was ahead at the top of the jump and were they wave the checkerd flag and were the transponder clicks off. They...
We got screwed Weston was ahead at the top of the jump and were they wave the checkerd flag and were the transponder clicks off. They told us that they went by the bottom of the jump total bullshit. We really didnt have any say so. If it was a factory rider it would have been different. Why do we need transponders this is how we make our monie and we got ripped off tonight. Not really fair for someone that is paying to be in the mains.
Just read your post Lou........and hell yes.....you have every right to be pissed! I don't think there is anyone who would agree with felds decision on this.

Edit : Wait......I haven't read all the way through this thread yet.....so maybe there is someone dumb enough to fall for it.
friday10
Posts
631
Joined
12/15/2009
Location
Northridge, CA US
2/19/2012 6:23pm
LouDog wrote:
We got screwed Weston was ahead at the top of the jump and were they wave the checkerd flag and were the transponder clicks off. They...
We got screwed Weston was ahead at the top of the jump and were they wave the checkerd flag and were the transponder clicks off. They told us that they went by the bottom of the jump total bullshit. We really didnt have any say so. If it was a factory rider it would have been different. Why do we need transponders this is how we make our monie and we got ripped off tonight. Not really fair for someone that is paying to be in the mains.
T-Fish wrote:
[b]We got screwed[/b] Hold on, WE? It was your kid, not you. [b]this is how we make our monie[/b] If this is what you both do...
We got screwed
Hold on, WE? It was your kid, not you.

this is how we make our monie
If this is what you both do for income, maybe it's time one of you two find a 9-5 job. Sorry to be a dick, but this is a sport/hobby and you should be grateful it pays anything at all.

Not really fair for someone that is paying to be in the mains.
You're old enough to know life isn't fair. Oh, and everybody "pays" to be in the event. Whether an employer pays the fee for the rider or if the rider pays, someone is paying.



I do agree it seems like a shitty situation and one that wasn't in your favor this time around. Now let's pretend this happened the other way around, what would your stance be?
mooch wrote:
Wow...This t-fish individual has definitely lost his way between the real world and the fantasy world he's apparently living in.

WTF?
T-Fishing -
Maybe it's a sport/hobby to you but I believe it's called "Professional Racing" and they should be grateful that it pays anything? Your ignorance is shining brightly.
AZ35
Posts
2266
Joined
6/1/2008
Location
Glendale, AZ US
Fantasy
550th
2/19/2012 6:30pm
I have been following the sport for well over 30 years. Some strange things have happened.

But a "visual override" comes out on top as the worst decision ever by the FIM/AMA/Feld/MXA/Lechien/Lawrence/Emig and everyone else that has ever made a bad decision in this sport.

That is just some crazy ass shit.

The Shop

jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
2/19/2012 6:30pm
T-Fish wrote:
[b]We got screwed[/b] Hold on, WE? It was your kid, not you. [b]this is how we make our monie[/b] If this is what you both do...
We got screwed
Hold on, WE? It was your kid, not you.

this is how we make our monie
If this is what you both do for income, maybe it's time one of you two find a 9-5 job. Sorry to be a dick, but this is a sport/hobby and you should be grateful it pays anything at all.

Not really fair for someone that is paying to be in the mains.
You're old enough to know life isn't fair. Oh, and everybody "pays" to be in the event. Whether an employer pays the fee for the rider or if the rider pays, someone is paying.



I do agree it seems like a shitty situation and one that wasn't in your favor this time around. Now let's pretend this happened the other way around, what would your stance be?
You are the clear winner of the biggest ass hat jack wagon this week. Congratulations!
T-Fish wrote:
Why, because I don't suck the balls of Weston's dad like the rest of you?
No Fish.....it is because you are being a fucking dick about it. I also think that if you would have "thought" a little more on your questions , maybe you wouldn't be coming across like such an A-hole right now.

Your first question : Weston and Lou are a team........when Weston does bad....the team does bad correct? Lou is part of the team correct?

See what I mean......stupid question. And BTW.....99% of the other guys in this thread agree with Lou.....Weston got screwed.
2/19/2012 6:32pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Just wanted to state my opinion on this too....and that is...... " [b]Weston got completely fucked over last night!!!![/b] " I'm actually still in shock over...
Just wanted to state my opinion on this too....and that is......


" Weston got completely fucked over last night!!!! "


I'm actually still in shock over those stupid fuckers at the FIM.......how in the hell can you use a visual.......when the transponder does it's job just fine??

Seriously...........that is EXACTLY like typing up a math problem on a calculator....reading it.....and then disagreeing with it!

Fucking stupid. Feel terrible for Weston and I bet his dad aint to happy either. Would you?
I knew there was a reason I like you Jeffro. Well said.
wildbill
Posts
4358
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Christmas Valley, OR US
2/19/2012 6:33pm
maybe the FIM will make things right...
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
2/19/2012 7:09pm
I don't even pretend to know what happened but I can tell you if John made the decision he had a good reason and politics and favoritism were not part of the decision.
Xeno
Posts
3635
Joined
12/30/2010
Location
San Clemente, CA US
2/19/2012 7:12pm
You know, it's completely possible that the winner of a main event could be decided in the same manner. Shoot, it almost happened in San Diego.
Falcon
Posts
10116
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA US
Fantasy
856th
2/19/2012 7:14pm
Regardless of which rider was actually in front, if you use transponders, you must abide by their data. Period. Anything else is ludicrous. No human official can possibly make a call to within 2 thousands of a second!

If we're going to go back to visual scoring, fine. do that.

By the way, doesn't the AMA (and also FIM) rulebook state that the official finish line is actually where the finish line flagger stands? It used to be so.
AUS_Twisted
Posts
1127
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Melbourne AU
2/19/2012 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2012 7:25pm
AZ35 wrote:
I have been following the sport for well over 30 years. Some strange things have happened. But a "visual override" comes out on top as the...
I have been following the sport for well over 30 years. Some strange things have happened.

But a "visual override" comes out on top as the worst decision ever by the FIM/AMA/Feld/MXA/Lechien/Lawrence/Emig and everyone else that has ever made a bad decision in this sport.

That is just some crazy ass shit.
Yeah it's why I included the whole BS fuel testing crap in my post, it's right up there with that I think anyway
PJ205
Posts
1280
Joined
2/16/2008
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
2/19/2012 8:00pm
T-Fish, when SX heads to Seattle, you should go meet up with Louie so you two can discuss your opinion.
Spinner
Posts
3198
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Fayettenam, AR US
2/19/2012 8:05pm
500guy wrote:
I don't even pretend to know what happened but I can tell you if John made the decision he had a good reason and politics and...
I don't even pretend to know what happened but I can tell you if John made the decision he had a good reason and politics and favoritism were not part of the decision.
And neither were common sense nor intelligence apparently.
If transponders are to be used for qualifying, this "visual override" bullshit just made the transponders obsolete.
tbanks
Posts
1519
Joined
5/28/2011
Location
Great Mills, MD US
2/19/2012 9:31pm
tbanks wrote:
If it was too close to call they should have let both riders race the Main. They used to race 22 riders in the main event...
If it was too close to call they should have let both riders race the Main. They used to race 22 riders in the main event so what is 20 + 1 more?

Stupid move IMO from the AMA......Ruined a hard workers night with that S*&t
MX4EVR wrote:
This ^^^^^^^^^
Yep and if this were to happen to any of the big 4 you know the original times would have stood. This unfortunately throws all credibility of using live timing off.
BobbyM
Posts
21449
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
2/19/2012 9:35pm
RC won a title on exactly what people are implying here and would have one less trophy if that wasn't the case
wardy
Posts
1765
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
US
2/19/2012 10:58pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2012 10:59pm
I think i said it back on page 2? transponders are good, and they make life easy in the scoring department.

funny thing. they aren't perfect either. I am sure the official who made this decision did it because he liked the shitstorm that he knew that will follow. I am sure the score people who work that tower was out to "get someone".

No one in here can maybe give these people the benefit of the doubt and think that maybe they did it because they believed it was right and just thing to do?

Blaming all the letters in the alphabet will make it "justified" that this was wrong and bullshit. It has to be then since it's their fault.

I sit here and read all these pages of stuff and it's no wonder this sport is where it's at.

I think if i was referee of this race I would have allowed both to transfer, But then I am sure that would have pissed off the guy who gets beat at the end of the season for 14th overall by one point.
wawazat
Posts
816
Joined
5/6/2011
Location
Corona, CA US
2/19/2012 11:08pm
wardy wrote:
I think i said it back on page 2? transponders are good, and they make life easy in the scoring department. funny thing. they aren't perfect...
I think i said it back on page 2? transponders are good, and they make life easy in the scoring department.

funny thing. they aren't perfect either. I am sure the official who made this decision did it because he liked the shitstorm that he knew that will follow. I am sure the score people who work that tower was out to "get someone".

No one in here can maybe give these people the benefit of the doubt and think that maybe they did it because they believed it was right and just thing to do?

Blaming all the letters in the alphabet will make it "justified" that this was wrong and bullshit. It has to be then since it's their fault.

I sit here and read all these pages of stuff and it's no wonder this sport is where it's at.

I think if i was referee of this race I would have allowed both to transfer, But then I am sure that would have pissed off the guy who gets beat at the end of the season for 14th overall by one point.
AMA honk.

The sport is where its at cause the AMA is in charge. They can't even get the class name right. Over ruling a computer? Why use transponders at all if your not going to trust them? Pathetic.
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
2/19/2012 11:14pm
wardy wrote:
I think i said it back on page 2? transponders are good, and they make life easy in the scoring department. funny thing. they aren't perfect...
I think i said it back on page 2? transponders are good, and they make life easy in the scoring department.

funny thing. they aren't perfect either. I am sure the official who made this decision did it because he liked the shitstorm that he knew that will follow. I am sure the score people who work that tower was out to "get someone".

No one in here can maybe give these people the benefit of the doubt and think that maybe they did it because they believed it was right and just thing to do?

Blaming all the letters in the alphabet will make it "justified" that this was wrong and bullshit. It has to be then since it's their fault.

I sit here and read all these pages of stuff and it's no wonder this sport is where it's at.

I think if i was referee of this race I would have allowed both to transfer, But then I am sure that would have pissed off the guy who gets beat at the end of the season for 14th overall by one point.
Wardy.....with all due respect , have you ever.....EVER remembered two guys crossing the line so close before where they just threw the transponder readings out the window.....because some guy said he saw it differently?

Also.....please explain to me how a transponder(s) would of malfunctioned in this very instance. They were recorded at being .0002 sec apart......and some how a "human" said that it didn't matter.

Soo.....the transponder sends signals like radio waves and can record stuff down to .0001 ( actually much smaller than that.....just an example ) .......that seems to be pretty efficient to me. A human CAN NOT in any remote way even come close to seeing or recording things that fast.

And yeah.....my opinion doesn't mean shit.....and neither does anyone elses on this site.....but I'll be damned to change my mind on this unless I see a photo of it.

ALSO.......in the past 15 years or so....do you know how many block passes have been put on guys in the final corner at THE BASE of the finish line jump? I have seen quite a few in the past few years.......and NOT ONCE has the ruling EVER said that the finish line was at the base of the jump........not the top!

IF that is the case......and the riders know that the actual finish line is at the base......be prepared for some full on take out moves in that final corner.......and don't worry about getting up to the finish line flag.

BTW.........what the hell is the finish line doing on the track about 20' BEFORE the flagger?

I bet not one person , not from one race EVER can come in here and prove me wrong on this. Please show me where this exact same thing has happened where they threw the transponder reading out the window.
tmphotoart
Posts
673
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Yorba Linda, CA US
Fantasy
1233rd
2/20/2012 2:39am
The AMA always sides with the factory team riders. The AMA knows who butter's their bread, and will bend over once a little factory team pressure is applied.

Faith's team has much more industry connections and am sure more vocal to the AMA about getting their riders in the main. Weston is a true privateer, with little industry connections, hence not much pull with the AMA.

Weston got a raw deal from the AMA at Dallas, but he is proving to be a solid SX racer against a very deep field. I bet he pushes harder next time to have a bigger cushion from third place in an LCQ.

Race One . . . Weston!
robkinuk
Posts
4202
Joined
5/16/2007
Location
Ashbourne GB
2/20/2012 3:06am
We have Go pro camera's mounted on riders giving front and rear views of the action, yet the AMA/FIM can't even place one on the finish line so they have a back up to go too in these situations?

Bet Go pro would even sponsor said camera's if it's a cost factor!
Trauma
Posts
557
Joined
1/19/2010
Location
Victoria AU
2/20/2012 4:00am
Yea Weston got screwed, way to undermine the transponders AMA.

I assume all Heat/LCQ/Mains from now on will be decided by a guy at the base of the finish line jump.
2/20/2012 5:13am
That wasn't nearly as bad as Vince Friese taking out Bogle in Dallas. Im glad Bogle slapped him.
jndmx
Posts
9659
Joined
1/20/2008
Location
South Kingston, RI US
2/20/2012 5:18am
The transponder is mounted to the fork tube so it isn't the first thing to cross the line like the front tire does.

If one transponder stays straight on the mount and the other one vibrates and turns backwards on the tube during the race then that will create a difference in time across the finish for 2 riders crossing the loop at the same time.
0.002 could easily be the difference in that scenario.

As Wardy said they are an excellent tool but they aren't the end all be all.
mx196
Posts
521
Joined
2/7/2011
Location
MA US
Fantasy
4100th
2/20/2012 5:24am
This all makes me think back to Houston last year, wasnt dungey ahead of canard at the base of the finishline but they bumped and canard crested the top first...hmmm
zookrider62!
Posts
5926
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX US
Fantasy
583rd
2/20/2012 6:59am
mx196 wrote:
This all makes me think back to Houston last year, wasnt dungey ahead of canard at the base of the finishline but they bumped and canard...
This all makes me think back to Houston last year, wasnt dungey ahead of canard at the base of the finishline but they bumped and canard crested the top first...hmmm
I was thinking the exact same thing
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
2/20/2012 7:12am
mx196 wrote:
This all makes me think back to Houston last year, wasnt dungey ahead of canard at the base of the finishline but they bumped and canard...
This all makes me think back to Houston last year, wasnt dungey ahead of canard at the base of the finishline but they bumped and canard crested the top first...hmmm
Perfect example MX196! Where was the visual override on that one? Been a while since I saw that footage , but I thought RD actually had a wheel on TC for a split second on the bottom of that ramp....then TC dropped the hammer and passed RD back as they were heading up the finish line jump.
JBlain619
Posts
1719
Joined
6/10/2010
Location
Severna Park, MD US
2/20/2012 7:35am
tmphotoart wrote:
The AMA always sides with the factory team riders. The AMA knows who butter's their bread, and will bend over once a little factory team pressure...
The AMA always sides with the factory team riders. The AMA knows who butter's their bread, and will bend over once a little factory team pressure is applied.

Faith's team has much more industry connections and am sure more vocal to the AMA about getting their riders in the main. Weston is a true privateer, with little industry connections, hence not much pull with the AMA.

Weston got a raw deal from the AMA at Dallas, but he is proving to be a solid SX racer against a very deep field. I bet he pushes harder next time to have a bigger cushion from third place in an LCQ.

Race One . . . Weston!
What team does Faith ride for??? I was there, and I'm pretty sure he was pitting out of his van. He isn't on a factorry team, so this excuse is piss-poor. He and Weston are both privateers.

Now, before you go being a dick about what I just said, again I was at the race. I thought Weston got the last transfer spot. Gavin made one hell of a move in the last turn, but I still thought Weston got the spot. It was very confusing when Irv started announcing and they start from the last qualifying rider and he announced Gavin. It wasn't until after the race, back in the pits, that we found out it was a visual override. Since the "Official Scorers" sit on the scaffolding right at the finish line jump, closer to the track than anyone, they saw something we didn't. It sucks for Weston, because like I said, IMO it looked like he got the spot to me and the transponders said he did by .002.

I'm not sure how you can override something that happened faster than a blink of an eye, but it did. If I was the head official, I would've given both riders a spot in the main.
enginedr
Posts
125
Joined
10/3/2008
Location
temecula, CA US
2/20/2012 8:17am
robkinuk wrote:
We have Go pro camera's mounted on riders giving front and rear views of the action, yet the AMA/FIM can't even place one on the finish...
We have Go pro camera's mounted on riders giving front and rear views of the action, yet the AMA/FIM can't even place one on the finish line so they have a back up to go too in these situations?

Bet Go pro would even sponsor said camera's if it's a cost factor!
good idea - feld can sell the " go pro finishline " to them now and make some extra bucks. there done deal.

Post a reply to: Visual override by the AMA?

The Latest