Vince f-ing Friese

Chris99Flannery wrote:

I hope Barcia gets a start behind Vince next race. I want to see the payback Barcia gives him... it aint going to be small

TooTallJason wrote:

We can all argue about what the AMA rulebook says, but SX is a product, and Vince Friese is fucking up the product.

sbarrington314 wrote:

He for sure didn't intentionally try to crash them. But he also didn't intentionally get out of the way. He's riding around in his own Vince...

He for sure didn't intentionally try to crash them. But he also didn't intentionally get out of the way. He's riding around in his own Vince Friese world and just doesn't care.

They need to start giving 1 round suspensions to lappers who don't get out of the way.

sbarrington314 wrote:

He for sure didn't intentionally try to crash them. But he also didn't intentionally get out of the way. He's riding around in his own Vince...

He for sure didn't intentionally try to crash them. But he also didn't intentionally get out of the way. He's riding around in his own Vince Friese world and just doesn't care.

They need to start giving 1 round suspensions to lappers who don't get out of the way.

Moto-Dude wrote:

[i]He's riding around in his own Vince Friese world and just doesn't care.[/i] Yeah, I think the same. It looks like if a lapped rider would...

He's riding around in his own Vince Friese world and just doesn't care.

Yeah, I think the same. It looks like if a lapped rider would pick a line and stick with it, it would help.

tingo wrote:

Barcia on running into Ken: "The [u]racing incident[/u] with Kenny was just that I misjudged the section...I talked to Kenny and he agreed..all good there." They...

Barcia on running into Ken: "The racing incident with Kenny was just that I misjudged the section...I talked to Kenny and he agreed..all good there." They most definitely would not be "all good" had Ken gone down, been hurt (ask Bowers), suffered a mechanical, etc.

Barcia on jumping into Vince: "Everyone knows the rider and it was completely out of my hands unfortunately." Vince is an easy scapegoat, and he definitely should have moved out of the way. But for Barcia to say it was "out of his hands" when he clearly jumped into the back of a slower rider is classic Barcia.

The dude will never change. Fast as hell, but also a spaz and a hypocrite.

tingo wrote:

Barcia on running into Ken: "The [u]racing incident[/u] with Kenny was just that I misjudged the section...I talked to Kenny and he agreed..all good there." They...

Barcia on running into Ken: "The racing incident with Kenny was just that I misjudged the section...I talked to Kenny and he agreed..all good there." They most definitely would not be "all good" had Ken gone down, been hurt (ask Bowers), suffered a mechanical, etc.

Barcia on jumping into Vince: "Everyone knows the rider and it was completely out of my hands unfortunately." Vince is an easy scapegoat, and he definitely should have moved out of the way. But for Barcia to say it was "out of his hands" when he clearly jumped into the back of a slower rider is classic Barcia.

The dude will never change. Fast as hell, but also a spaz and a hypocrite.

SilverSpurs wrote:

Correct They need to have a visible warning and retardation device on Barcia's bike. In that Indy 3 race he hit Cianciarulo,  Roczen and Friese and caused...

Correct

They need to have a visible warning and retardation device on Barcia's bike.

In that Indy 3 race he hit Cianciarulo,  Roczen and Friese and caused Tomac to crash, and if not for the happy placement of the blocks would have run off the track before Webb passed him.

Including himself that is a quarter of the field he interfered with.

Guy is a major menace and needs a black flag with #51 on it specially made.

Bultaco wrote:

Has anyone thought about #51 and #3 could not see the riders on the other side of the jump. Tomac for sure, would not have used...

Has anyone thought about #51 and #3 could not see the riders on the other side of the jump. Tomac for sure, would not have used the line he took, if he could see Barcia and bike heaped in the middle of the trough. Barcia is similar, if he could have seen Friese taking his time, I don't think Barcia would have hit him. Barcia tried to evade collision by heading to the left.

Not defending Friese as I recognize y'all need a villain, but these guys don't crash themselves out intentionally. I suspect it was more a chain reaction of unexpected hazards on the blind side of a jump.

tingo wrote:

Barcia on running into Ken: "The [u]racing incident[/u] with Kenny was just that I misjudged the section...I talked to Kenny and he agreed..all good there." They...

Barcia on running into Ken: "The racing incident with Kenny was just that I misjudged the section...I talked to Kenny and he agreed..all good there." They most definitely would not be "all good" had Ken gone down, been hurt (ask Bowers), suffered a mechanical, etc.

Barcia on jumping into Vince: "Everyone knows the rider and it was completely out of my hands unfortunately." Vince is an easy scapegoat, and he definitely should have moved out of the way. But for Barcia to say it was "out of his hands" when he clearly jumped into the back of a slower rider is classic Barcia.

The dude will never change. Fast as hell, but also a spaz and a hypocrite.

SilverSpurs wrote:

Correct They need to have a visible warning and retardation device on Barcia's bike. In that Indy 3 race he hit Cianciarulo,  Roczen and Friese and caused...

Correct

They need to have a visible warning and retardation device on Barcia's bike.

In that Indy 3 race he hit Cianciarulo,  Roczen and Friese and caused Tomac to crash, and if not for the happy placement of the blocks would have run off the track before Webb passed him.

Including himself that is a quarter of the field he interfered with.

Guy is a major menace and needs a black flag with #51 on it specially made.

DK23 wrote:

So let me get this right. Friese did nothing wrong and Barcia crashed into him, but Barcia followed the same line and yet it was his...

So let me get this right. Friese did nothing wrong and Barcia crashed into him, but Barcia followed the same line and yet it was his fault Tomac hit him? Wow that is sound logic.

Nathaniel129 wrote:

Friese was getting lapped and absolutely didn't make an effort to move over. I think that's an objective observation. Barcia pushed the issue and hit Friese...

Friese was getting lapped and absolutely didn't make an effort to move over. I think that's an objective observation.
Barcia pushed the issue and hit Friese, who was definitely in the main racing line. If anything Barcia should have been more careful BECAUSE it was Friese.
Vince was being an idiot and not being courteous to the lead pack, AND Barcia made a mistake trying to jump around/past Friese.
BOTH things can be true here. It's Friese, you have to know he's probably not going to move and he's going to stay in the race line...so as much as I can't stand him, it's not all on Friese.
Two bad decisions caused this one.

TooTallJason wrote:

We can all argue about what the AMA rulebook says, but SX is a product, and Vince Friese is fucking up the product.

Dirty Points wrote:

[b]Things that fucked up the product:[/b] [list][*]Unimaginative track [*]Half-assed live production [*]46 second lap times [*]Absolutely destroyed dirt used for multiple consecutive indoor races in heart...

Things that fucked up the product:
[list][*]Unimaginative track
[*]Half-assed live production
[*]46 second lap times
[*]Absolutely destroyed dirt used for multiple consecutive indoor races in heart of endless-traction-country
[*]Bricks
[*]"Monstercross Energy"
[*]Baffling AMA decisions.
[*]Follow-the-leader racing
[*]Replays of other races popping up during critical battles.
[*]COVID crowd restraints (understandable, but does reduce the excitement)
[/list]
Things that did not fuck up the product:
[list][*]Any of the riders.[/list]

TooTallJason wrote:

We can all argue about what the AMA rulebook says, but SX is a product, and Vince Friese is fucking up the product.

Dirty Points wrote:

[b]Things that fucked up the product:[/b] [list][*]Unimaginative track [*]Half-assed live production [*]46 second lap times [*]Absolutely destroyed dirt used for multiple consecutive indoor races in heart...

Things that fucked up the product:
[list][*]Unimaginative track
[*]Half-assed live production
[*]46 second lap times
[*]Absolutely destroyed dirt used for multiple consecutive indoor races in heart of endless-traction-country
[*]Bricks
[*]"Monstercross Energy"
[*]Baffling AMA decisions.
[*]Follow-the-leader racing
[*]Replays of other races popping up during critical battles.
[*]COVID crowd restraints (understandable, but does reduce the excitement)
[/list]
Things that did not fuck up the product:
[list][*]Any of the riders.[/list]

TooTallJason wrote:

In your opinion sure, but let's imagine for a moment that Indy 3 was the first supercross race you ever watched and you don't know a...

In your opinion sure, but let's imagine for a moment that Indy 3 was the first supercross race you ever watched and you don't know a damn thing about it, none of the other stuff you mentioned matters.

That's the only lens through which Feld should look at this.

Dirty Points wrote:

[b]Things that fucked up the product:[/b] [list][*]Unimaginative track [*]Half-assed live production [*]46 second lap times [*]Absolutely destroyed dirt used for multiple consecutive indoor races in heart...

Things that fucked up the product:
[list][*]Unimaginative track
[*]Half-assed live production
[*]46 second lap times
[*]Absolutely destroyed dirt used for multiple consecutive indoor races in heart of endless-traction-country
[*]Bricks
[*]"Monstercross Energy"
[*]Baffling AMA decisions.
[*]Follow-the-leader racing
[*]Replays of other races popping up during critical battles.
[*]COVID crowd restraints (understandable, but does reduce the excitement)
[/list]
Things that did not fuck up the product:
[list][*]Any of the riders.[/list]

TooTallJason wrote:

In your opinion sure, but let's imagine for a moment that Indy 3 was the first supercross race you ever watched and you don't know a...

In your opinion sure, but let's imagine for a moment that Indy 3 was the first supercross race you ever watched and you don't know a damn thing about it, none of the other stuff you mentioned matters.

That's the only lens through which Feld should look at this.

Dirty Points wrote:

LOL.

I wouldn't have made it even remotely close to the main if I was just an impartial sportfan remote-surfing this Feld/NBC/Peacock production.

SilverSpurs wrote:

https://www.mentalhealth.gov/get-help/immediate-help

TooTallJason wrote:

In your opinion sure, but let's imagine for a moment that Indy 3 was the first supercross race you ever watched and you don't know a...

In your opinion sure, but let's imagine for a moment that Indy 3 was the first supercross race you ever watched and you don't know a damn thing about it, none of the other stuff you mentioned matters.

That's the only lens through which Feld should look at this.

Dirty Points wrote:

LOL.

I wouldn't have made it even remotely close to the main if I was just an impartial sportfan remote-surfing this Feld/NBC/Peacock production.

TooTallJason wrote:

Oh is that the standard we're holding this to? Would Dirty Points have made it this far? No? Well then I guess it's a moot point...

Oh is that the standard we're holding this to? Would Dirty Points have made it this far? No? Well then I guess it's a moot point and an absolute impossibility.

Dirty Points wrote:

LOL.

I wouldn't have made it even remotely close to the main if I was just an impartial sportfan remote-surfing this Feld/NBC/Peacock production.

TooTallJason wrote:

Oh is that the standard we're holding this to? Would Dirty Points have made it this far? No? Well then I guess it's a moot point...

Oh is that the standard we're holding this to? Would Dirty Points have made it this far? No? Well then I guess it's a moot point and an absolute impossibility.

Dirty Points wrote:

Dude. You are the one who made hypothetical first-watchability the metric. I am just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with top-level athletes (including Friese)...

Dude. You are the one who made hypothetical first-watchability the metric.

I am just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with top-level athletes (including Friese), gorgeous dirt, and badass motorcycles. All of that fucking kicks ass. That's the product.

If the overall package sucks, look to the other factors. Maybe there's not enough of those fundamental three things -- I doubt there's too much of them.

TooTallJason wrote:

Oh is that the standard we're holding this to? Would Dirty Points have made it this far? No? Well then I guess it's a moot point...

Oh is that the standard we're holding this to? Would Dirty Points have made it this far? No? Well then I guess it's a moot point and an absolute impossibility.

Dirty Points wrote:

Dude. You are the one who made hypothetical first-watchability the metric. I am just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with top-level athletes (including Friese)...

Dude. You are the one who made hypothetical first-watchability the metric.

I am just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with top-level athletes (including Friese), gorgeous dirt, and badass motorcycles. All of that fucking kicks ass. That's the product.

If the overall package sucks, look to the other factors. Maybe there's not enough of those fundamental three things -- I doubt there's too much of them.

TooTallJason wrote:

You're right, I made the metric, then you said you wouldn't make it to the main. Great, was I talking about you? No I wasn't. But...

You're right, I made the metric, then you said you wouldn't make it to the main. Great, was I talking about you? No I wasn't.

But just so you know, you're wrong, casual fans do exist, I work with quite a few of them, and you know what they all mentioned this morning? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the track.

Anytime the leaders crash due to a lapper, it hurts the product whether or not you, as a hardcore fan, realizes it. Casual fans don't give a fuck about laptimes, or one lined tracks. All they see is that some fucking bozo who wasn't even involved in the battle fucked it up.

If this happened in any other major racing series, Vince Friese is penalized (Dean Wilson too). You think a backmarker in F1 would ever be like "racing line, amirite?"

And the product doesn't suck. If it sucks to you, you're thinking about it too hard, all the casual fans I know have said the racing has been awesome this year. And you're right the things you've mention could be improved, but let's also be frank, Friese has been involved in an incident in every single race this year. At what point do you call a liability a liability?

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Dirty Points wrote:

Dude. You are the one who made hypothetical first-watchability the metric. I am just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with top-level athletes (including Friese)...

Dude. You are the one who made hypothetical first-watchability the metric.

I am just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with top-level athletes (including Friese), gorgeous dirt, and badass motorcycles. All of that fucking kicks ass. That's the product.

If the overall package sucks, look to the other factors. Maybe there's not enough of those fundamental three things -- I doubt there's too much of them.

TooTallJason wrote:

You're right, I made the metric, then you said you wouldn't make it to the main. Great, was I talking about you? No I wasn't. But...

You're right, I made the metric, then you said you wouldn't make it to the main. Great, was I talking about you? No I wasn't.

But just so you know, you're wrong, casual fans do exist, I work with quite a few of them, and you know what they all mentioned this morning? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the track.

Anytime the leaders crash due to a lapper, it hurts the product whether or not you, as a hardcore fan, realizes it. Casual fans don't give a fuck about laptimes, or one lined tracks. All they see is that some fucking bozo who wasn't even involved in the battle fucked it up.

If this happened in any other major racing series, Vince Friese is penalized (Dean Wilson too). You think a backmarker in F1 would ever be like "racing line, amirite?"

And the product doesn't suck. If it sucks to you, you're thinking about it too hard, all the casual fans I know have said the racing has been awesome this year. And you're right the things you've mention could be improved, but let's also be frank, Friese has been involved in an incident in every single race this year. At what point do you call a liability a liability?

Dirty Points wrote:

If I watched any new form of racing -- motor, road, offroad, foot -- and some dude who was competing for the win ran right into...

If I watched any new form of racing -- motor, road, offroad, foot -- and some dude who was competing for the win ran right into the back of a backmarker, fell down, and then came in fourth to last, my initial thought would be: "...Well that dude is obviously fast, but not not the smartest."

Probably wouldn't even consider where the backmarker should or shouldn't be.

...And that is probably as far as my train of thought would go. And first impressions are often right.

TooTallJason wrote:

You're right, I made the metric, then you said you wouldn't make it to the main. Great, was I talking about you? No I wasn't. But...

You're right, I made the metric, then you said you wouldn't make it to the main. Great, was I talking about you? No I wasn't.

But just so you know, you're wrong, casual fans do exist, I work with quite a few of them, and you know what they all mentioned this morning? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the track.

Anytime the leaders crash due to a lapper, it hurts the product whether or not you, as a hardcore fan, realizes it. Casual fans don't give a fuck about laptimes, or one lined tracks. All they see is that some fucking bozo who wasn't even involved in the battle fucked it up.

If this happened in any other major racing series, Vince Friese is penalized (Dean Wilson too). You think a backmarker in F1 would ever be like "racing line, amirite?"

And the product doesn't suck. If it sucks to you, you're thinking about it too hard, all the casual fans I know have said the racing has been awesome this year. And you're right the things you've mention could be improved, but let's also be frank, Friese has been involved in an incident in every single race this year. At what point do you call a liability a liability?

Dirty Points wrote:

If I watched any new form of racing -- motor, road, offroad, foot -- and some dude who was competing for the win ran right into...

If I watched any new form of racing -- motor, road, offroad, foot -- and some dude who was competing for the win ran right into the back of a backmarker, fell down, and then came in fourth to last, my initial thought would be: "...Well that dude is obviously fast, but not not the smartest."

Probably wouldn't even consider where the backmarker should or shouldn't be.

...And that is probably as far as my train of thought would go. And first impressions are often right.

TooTallJason wrote:

Again, none of my points are about you.

Dirty Points wrote:

If I watched any new form of racing -- motor, road, offroad, foot -- and some dude who was competing for the win ran right into...

If I watched any new form of racing -- motor, road, offroad, foot -- and some dude who was competing for the win ran right into the back of a backmarker, fell down, and then came in fourth to last, my initial thought would be: "...Well that dude is obviously fast, but not not the smartest."

Probably wouldn't even consider where the backmarker should or shouldn't be.

...And that is probably as far as my train of thought would go. And first impressions are often right.

TooTallJason wrote:

Again, none of my points are about you.

Dirty Points wrote:

But you laid out the thought experiment in your first post, in response to mine! I am literally just doing what you asked.

TooTallJason wrote:

Again, none of my points are about you.

Dirty Points wrote:

But you laid out the thought experiment in your first post, in response to mine! I am literally just doing what you asked.

TooTallJason wrote:

I'd argue that while you could maintain that position, that once I started talking about real people, it was no longer the thought experiment, as you...

I'd argue that while you could maintain that position, that once I started talking about real people, it was no longer the thought experiment, as you initially asserted that you wouldn't have made it to the main.

But sure, if that's the position that you want to take, that's fine. I'll just take my real world experience of talking with other fans and move along.