Vince f-ing Friese

2/11/2021 1:41pm
The fact friese wasn’t looking behind him off that jump is very disrespectful, Justin obviously made the right choice
So many posts and not many have highlighted that the only victim was Eli
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2/11/2021 2:24pm
MyBobbym wrote:
I'd rather be leading and soon to be passing a lapper than passing for the lead. Lappers are part of racing and the talk of black...
I'd rather be leading and soon to be passing a lapper than passing for the lead. Lappers are part of racing and the talk of black flagging lappers is hilarious. Consider the source I guess.
plowboy wrote:
100% agree with Bobby. Vince qualified for the race. He gets to ride. If he is in the way...ride around him like any other obstacle on...
100% agree with Bobby. Vince qualified for the race. He gets to ride. If he is in the way...ride around him like any other obstacle on the track. So what if he's in the "fast line". The guy behind you has to deal with him as well. I realise that every situation is unique but being a big dog doesn't mean you own the track and any line you choose. I don't feel one way or the other about Vince and I am a fan of Barcia but just shut up and ride.
The rule book seems to disagree with your assertion....... In saying that, it’s still on Barcia for running into a rider from behind.

4.16 Flags and Lights
It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings at all times while on track. Safety is a main priority and the riders must obey all official signals and directions given to them. Any rider failing to do so may be penalized.
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RACE RULES & PROCEDURES

a. Solid Blue Flag:
1. Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster riders.
2. When conditions allow, move out of the fast line. Once out of the fast line, hold your line, do not ride erratically and do not impede the faster rider’s progress.
3. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be penalized at the discretion of Race Direction.
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plowboy
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2/11/2021 2:58pm
MyBobbym wrote:
I'd rather be leading and soon to be passing a lapper than passing for the lead. Lappers are part of racing and the talk of black...
I'd rather be leading and soon to be passing a lapper than passing for the lead. Lappers are part of racing and the talk of black flagging lappers is hilarious. Consider the source I guess.
plowboy wrote:
100% agree with Bobby. Vince qualified for the race. He gets to ride. If he is in the way...ride around him like any other obstacle on...
100% agree with Bobby. Vince qualified for the race. He gets to ride. If he is in the way...ride around him like any other obstacle on the track. So what if he's in the "fast line". The guy behind you has to deal with him as well. I realise that every situation is unique but being a big dog doesn't mean you own the track and any line you choose. I don't feel one way or the other about Vince and I am a fan of Barcia but just shut up and ride.
The rule book seems to disagree with your assertion....... In saying that, it’s still on Barcia for running into a rider from behind. 4.16 Flags and...
The rule book seems to disagree with your assertion....... In saying that, it’s still on Barcia for running into a rider from behind.

4.16 Flags and Lights
It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings at all times while on track. Safety is a main priority and the riders must obey all official signals and directions given to them. Any rider failing to do so may be penalized.
27
RACE RULES & PROCEDURES

a. Solid Blue Flag:
1. Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster riders.
2. When conditions allow, move out of the fast line. Once out of the fast line, hold your line, do not ride erratically and do not impede the faster rider’s progress.
3. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be penalized at the discretion of Race Direction.
My bad. I did not express my opinion correctly or fully. I know what the rulebook says and what the blue flags mean. What I was trying to say is that when any of these top riders comes up on a guy that is in his line and isn't "obeying the rules"...what are the options? Slow down and follow him...carry your speed and crash into him...or use your talent to find away around him? From what I saw, Vince was hogging the fast line, not trying to block any passing attempt. Yes, Vince was not obeying the blue flag rules but in the end...who got the worse of the situation? Even if they banned him for life it doesn't give Barcia and Eli back the points they lost.

My point was that that coming up on a lapper that is in your way is no different than any other obstacle on the track...just use those awesome skills to deal with it or don't and pay for it in points and dollars. In this case, being right has nothing to do with it.
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2/11/2021 3:08pm
I agree, the funny part in my mind is Barcia is the guy that had the ability to deal with it properly. Could have torpedoed him in the next corner which was the best corner on the track to do so. The rule book is pretty clear but is rarely referred to by the officials and never done so consistently so it will be left to the riders to figure it out in the moment.
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The Shop

SilverSpurs
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2/11/2021 3:21pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2021 3:22pm
I agree, the funny part in my mind is Barcia is the guy that had the ability to deal with it properly. Could have torpedoed him...
I agree, the funny part in my mind is Barcia is the guy that had the ability to deal with it properly. Could have torpedoed him in the next corner which was the best corner on the track to do so. The rule book is pretty clear but is rarely referred to by the officials and never done so consistently so it will be left to the riders to figure it out in the moment.
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and laughed at Jussie from the podium. True story.
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5
2/11/2021 3:57pm
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and...
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and laughed at Jussie from the podium. True story.
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good speed this year, has the ability/experience to force the issue with Vince like he does with almost every pass he makes, but no race craft to make it happen when it needs to.

Extra point for impetuous and Jussie. These dead horse threads have been fairly entertaining the last few weeks.
Tbteam
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2/12/2021 12:29pm
And to think that all of this discussion would go away if VF could just go one second per lap faster.
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2/12/2021 12:44pm
Tbteam wrote:
And to think that all of this discussion would go away if VF could just go one second per lap faster.
Barcia IS the 1 sec faster version of Friese.
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Kenny Lingus
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2/12/2021 1:04pm
I liked what the RacerX film broke down and what Phil had to say in his column.
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gt80rider
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2/13/2021 5:58am
Exactly as Ive posted elsewhere- Lappers aren't lappers until they're lapped. So now it'd be a disadvantage to be leading the race and an advantage to...
Exactly as Ive posted elsewhere- Lappers aren't lappers until they're lapped.

So now it'd be a disadvantage to be leading the race and an advantage to be running 2nd. Who wants to take the lead and encounter the lappers?? Hands up..
A lapper is some slow dude you come up on..... they only get lapped after you pass them....

Maybe you've never lapped anyone before?
WFO
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2/13/2021 3:16pm
Blair was pretty nice today on the broadcast. He didn't bag too much on Vince but did say it seems to follow Vince and he's got to be more aware. He also said the AMA had a talk with Vince.
andymoto
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2/13/2021 5:45pm
Sanctioning body bears some responsibility if they're not penalizing his pro license to where he gets sat down for irresponsible riding.



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SilverSpurs
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2/14/2021 1:00am
WFO wrote:
Blair was pretty nice today on the broadcast. He didn't bag too much on Vince but did say it seems to follow Vince and he's got...
Blair was pretty nice today on the broadcast. He didn't bag too much on Vince but did say it seems to follow Vince and he's got to be more aware. He also said the AMA had a talk with Vince.
If they spoke with Vince they certainly spoke with Barcia.

He pulled his head right in last night.
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DirtDart
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2/14/2021 5:40am
plowboy wrote:
My bad. I did not express my opinion correctly or fully. I know what the rulebook says and what the blue flags mean. What I was...
My bad. I did not express my opinion correctly or fully. I know what the rulebook says and what the blue flags mean. What I was trying to say is that when any of these top riders comes up on a guy that is in his line and isn't "obeying the rules"...what are the options? Slow down and follow him...carry your speed and crash into him...or use your talent to find away around him? From what I saw, Vince was hogging the fast line, not trying to block any passing attempt. Yes, Vince was not obeying the blue flag rules but in the end...who got the worse of the situation? Even if they banned him for life it doesn't give Barcia and Eli back the points they lost.

My point was that that coming up on a lapper that is in your way is no different than any other obstacle on the track...just use those awesome skills to deal with it or don't and pay for it in points and dollars. In this case, being right has nothing to do with it.
Thanks, that’s great advice except none of us are Barcia and competing for a championship or position.

He is, and I expect a racer to race.
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DirtDart
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2/14/2021 5:49am
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and...
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and laughed at Jussie from the podium. True story.
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good...
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good speed this year, has the ability/experience to force the issue with Vince like he does with almost every pass he makes, but no race craft to make it happen when it needs to.

Extra point for impetuous and Jussie. These dead horse threads have been fairly entertaining the last few weeks.
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened.

Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play.

As we have seen many times, when a slower rider blocks/ slows a faster rider, in the process of getting around the slower rider, the next rider has an opportunity to pass all of them.

If Barcia had followed VF to the next corner, he may have still been blocked and then passed by Tomac.

Nobody can say that Barcia would have dealt with VF at the next corner because it is unknown.
2/14/2021 7:25am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 7:28am
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and...
Nek corner? Barcia cannot think that far ahead. He is an impetuous idiot as far as racecraft. Webb passed Vince on the outside same section and laughed at Jussie from the podium. True story.
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good...
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good speed this year, has the ability/experience to force the issue with Vince like he does with almost every pass he makes, but no race craft to make it happen when it needs to.

Extra point for impetuous and Jussie. These dead horse threads have been fairly entertaining the last few weeks.
DirtDart wrote:
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened. Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play. As we have seen many times...
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened.

Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play.

As we have seen many times, when a slower rider blocks/ slows a faster rider, in the process of getting around the slower rider, the next rider has an opportunity to pass all of them.

If Barcia had followed VF to the next corner, he may have still been blocked and then passed by Tomac.

Nobody can say that Barcia would have dealt with VF at the next corner because it is unknown.
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the bike where there wasn't space, and now is a couple races out and left to beef with an outside-the-top-ten guy on social media.

That's the type of longer risk-management decisions that the guys with consistent results are able to mix in along with the split-second ones.
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DirtDart
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2/14/2021 9:18am
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good...
Yep, and proved that to be the case by ending up on the ground how he did. He is a bit of a conundrum, pretty good speed this year, has the ability/experience to force the issue with Vince like he does with almost every pass he makes, but no race craft to make it happen when it needs to.

Extra point for impetuous and Jussie. These dead horse threads have been fairly entertaining the last few weeks.
DirtDart wrote:
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened. Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play. As we have seen many times...
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened.

Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play.

As we have seen many times, when a slower rider blocks/ slows a faster rider, in the process of getting around the slower rider, the next rider has an opportunity to pass all of them.

If Barcia had followed VF to the next corner, he may have still been blocked and then passed by Tomac.

Nobody can say that Barcia would have dealt with VF at the next corner because it is unknown.
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the...
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the bike where there wasn't space, and now is a couple races out and left to beef with an outside-the-top-ten guy on social media.

That's the type of longer risk-management decisions that the guys with consistent results are able to mix in along with the split-second ones.
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out.

If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t you tell him? You didn’t know that before the race, during the race, or at the moment that Barcia tried to pass VF.

What we do know is VF got the blue flag and had already been passed. Barcia, with Tomac at his 6, expected VF to clear the racing line because he was still being shown the blue flag.

That is a fair expectation.
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2/14/2021 9:27am
DirtDart wrote:
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened. Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play. As we have seen many times...
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened.

Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play.

As we have seen many times, when a slower rider blocks/ slows a faster rider, in the process of getting around the slower rider, the next rider has an opportunity to pass all of them.

If Barcia had followed VF to the next corner, he may have still been blocked and then passed by Tomac.

Nobody can say that Barcia would have dealt with VF at the next corner because it is unknown.
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the...
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the bike where there wasn't space, and now is a couple races out and left to beef with an outside-the-top-ten guy on social media.

That's the type of longer risk-management decisions that the guys with consistent results are able to mix in along with the split-second ones.
DirtDart wrote:
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out. If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t...
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out.

If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t you tell him? You didn’t know that before the race, during the race, or at the moment that Barcia tried to pass VF.

What we do know is VF got the blue flag and had already been passed. Barcia, with Tomac at his 6, expected VF to clear the racing line because he was still being shown the blue flag.

That is a fair expectation.
It's not just that one situation. Barcia is pretty consistently impatient in picking his spots.
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DirtDart
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2/14/2021 10:19am
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the...
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the bike where there wasn't space, and now is a couple races out and left to beef with an outside-the-top-ten guy on social media.

That's the type of longer risk-management decisions that the guys with consistent results are able to mix in along with the split-second ones.
DirtDart wrote:
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out. If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t...
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out.

If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t you tell him? You didn’t know that before the race, during the race, or at the moment that Barcia tried to pass VF.

What we do know is VF got the blue flag and had already been passed. Barcia, with Tomac at his 6, expected VF to clear the racing line because he was still being shown the blue flag.

That is a fair expectation.
It's not just that one situation. Barcia is pretty consistently impatient in picking his spots.
I agree with that.
SilverSpurs
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2/14/2021 11:36am
DirtDart wrote:
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened. Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play. As we have seen many times...
We don’t know anything because we only know what happened.

Had Barcia followed VF, Tomac may have come into play.

As we have seen many times, when a slower rider blocks/ slows a faster rider, in the process of getting around the slower rider, the next rider has an opportunity to pass all of them.

If Barcia had followed VF to the next corner, he may have still been blocked and then passed by Tomac.

Nobody can say that Barcia would have dealt with VF at the next corner because it is unknown.
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the...
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the bike where there wasn't space, and now is a couple races out and left to beef with an outside-the-top-ten guy on social media.

That's the type of longer risk-management decisions that the guys with consistent results are able to mix in along with the split-second ones.
DirtDart wrote:
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out. If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t...
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out.

If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t you tell him? You didn’t know that before the race, during the race, or at the moment that Barcia tried to pass VF.

What we do know is VF got the blue flag and had already been passed. Barcia, with Tomac at his 6, expected VF to clear the racing line because he was still being shown the blue flag.

That is a fair expectation.
Get it right. Vinny took no one out.

Barcia took himself out by being impetuous.

He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when Webb pressured him and then, riding panicked with Tomac behind him destroys both their races and knocks Friese a yard to the right.

Man has no racecraft.
DirtDart
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2/15/2021 7:53am
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the...
If Barcia had been blocked and passed by Tomac, he would still be marginally in the Championship hunt right now. Instead he tried to put the bike where there wasn't space, and now is a couple races out and left to beef with an outside-the-top-ten guy on social media.

That's the type of longer risk-management decisions that the guys with consistent results are able to mix in along with the split-second ones.
DirtDart wrote:
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out. If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t...
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out.

If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t you tell him? You didn’t know that before the race, during the race, or at the moment that Barcia tried to pass VF.

What we do know is VF got the blue flag and had already been passed. Barcia, with Tomac at his 6, expected VF to clear the racing line because he was still being shown the blue flag.

That is a fair expectation.
Get it right. Vinny took no one out. Barcia took himself out by being impetuous. He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when...
Get it right. Vinny took no one out.

Barcia took himself out by being impetuous.

He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when Webb pressured him and then, riding panicked with Tomac behind him destroys both their races and knocks Friese a yard to the right.

Man has no racecraft.
His 250 championships prove otherwise.
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SilverSpurs
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2/15/2021 11:04am Edited Date/Time 2/15/2021 11:05am
DirtDart wrote:
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out. If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t...
Nice armchair quarterbacking. This only works because VF took Barcia out.

If you knew that passing VF would put Barcia’s championship run at risk, why didn’t you tell him? You didn’t know that before the race, during the race, or at the moment that Barcia tried to pass VF.

What we do know is VF got the blue flag and had already been passed. Barcia, with Tomac at his 6, expected VF to clear the racing line because he was still being shown the blue flag.

That is a fair expectation.
Get it right. Vinny took no one out. Barcia took himself out by being impetuous. He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when...
Get it right. Vinny took no one out.

Barcia took himself out by being impetuous.

He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when Webb pressured him and then, riding panicked with Tomac behind him destroys both their races and knocks Friese a yard to the right.

Man has no racecraft.
DirtDart wrote:
His 250 championships prove otherwise.
His 250 championships prove my point.

He has ability, but in the grown up class of 450 riders discipline is also required.

How long has he been on the big bike now; 7 or 8 years?
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-MAVERICK-
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2/15/2021 11:58am
Get it right. Vinny took no one out. Barcia took himself out by being impetuous. He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when...
Get it right. Vinny took no one out.

Barcia took himself out by being impetuous.

He'd already hit Cianciarulio and Roczen, fallen off the track when Webb pressured him and then, riding panicked with Tomac behind him destroys both their races and knocks Friese a yard to the right.

Man has no racecraft.
DirtDart wrote:
His 250 championships prove otherwise.
His 250 championships prove my point. He has ability, but in the grown up class of 450 riders discipline is also required. How long has he...
His 250 championships prove my point.

He has ability, but in the grown up class of 450 riders discipline is also required.

How long has he been on the big bike now; 7 or 8 years?
He's currently in his 9th SX season on the big bike with his best season being his first one in 2013 where he finished 4th in points.
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hamncheeze
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2/15/2021 1:40pm
Can't we just blame the YZ450F for all of Barcia's shortcomings in the 450 class?
DirtDart
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2/15/2021 1:45pm
hamncheeze wrote:
Can't we just blame the YZ450F for all of Barcia's shortcomings in the 450 class?
Nobody has won on both the Yamahas and Honda’s he rode.
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