Vettel’s penalty - leaving the track isn’t just a moto problem

6/11/2019 11:20am
.kyle wrote:
I don't like Vettel and I support Hamilton, but even I think the penalty was questionable! There are some angles which show Vettel seemingly not having...
I don't like Vettel and I support Hamilton, but even I think the penalty was questionable!

There are some angles which show Vettel seemingly not having enough control over his trajectory, but there other angles which show him turning his steering wheel right just as Hamilton looks to go for the overtake.

Part of me just wants to say 'quit complaining, quit your appeals, bang bars and let's race'.
I've driven simulators enough to know that when you go through grass you can't give any steering, braking or throttle input until you're back on tarmac...
I've driven simulators enough to know that when you go through grass you can't give any steering, braking or throttle input until you're back on tarmac and the car has "settled". Him steering to the right was to counteract the snap oversteer he got when doing the above. He didn't even move his head to look in his mirrors until after the incident happened. He was to busy trying to keep it out of the wall.
.kyle wrote:
Had it been me making the decision, I probably wouldn't have done anything. I did find that different angles seemed to show different intentions, but part...
Had it been me making the decision, I probably wouldn't have done anything. I did find that different angles seemed to show different intentions, but part of me doesn't feel it was severe enough to warrant a penalty.
The guy who make the penalty decision was/is a french Le Mans driver. A fairly useless former F1 driver who writes for the (horrible) BBC Sport said that Vettel deserved the penalty.
You don't have to move your head to look in the mirrors. The eyes can move more than enough for that.


One thing is for sure - Vettel can't handle pressure! At the end of the day, racing these days is nowhere near as exciting as it once was and rubbish like this only sterilizes it further.
Those mirrors are so senseless anyway. They can barely see anything out of them (proven) going in a straight line. Now have a guy driving at a 45 degree angle through grass trying to stay out of a wall and somehow while doing all that he's supposed to be looking for a trailing car in his mirror that maaaaybe gives him a few cm of viewing radius above the rear tires. The stewards act like he was driving a touring car!

This is like giving a 5 second penalty to a guy leading a Supercross race because he makes a mistake and has to double a triple, thus forcing the rider behind to get on the brakes and double it with him. Just because you're following and have to hit the brakes doesn't make it dangerous. It's the responsibility of both racers in any racing situation to assess and evaluate the dangers for the decisions they make. Hamilton went for a gap that was always going to close on him but he made the decision to go for it anyway. The gap closed so he braked. No more danger than any other on track situation following a car that close. They're not fondling each other naked with snapping turtles. Now that's dangerous.
1
6/11/2019 11:28am
Had there not been a penalty announced, do you think Hamilton would have been able to get by him?
6/11/2019 11:39am
Had there not been a penalty announced, do you think Hamilton would have been able to get by him?
Yes on the next straight under DRS.
h4ck.b0x7
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6/11/2019 11:53am
Had there not been a penalty announced, do you think Hamilton would have been able to get by him?
Yes on the next straight under DRS.
Explain this to me?!? It took multiple laps for a penalty to be announced. If Hamilton could have passed him at any point why didn’t he?
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Barrett57
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6/11/2019 12:07pm
Picking up my dogs shit is more exciting than the average F1 race, my god is it mind numbing.
6/11/2019 12:10pm
Hamilton and Vettel had a huge gap to 3rd place at the time. Hamilton was controlling the gap applying pressure to Vettel quite methodically.

After the incident (intelligently) Hamilton stayed in second while the stewards investigated the racing incident. Once the penalty was announced Hamilton had no need to risk the car or engine on an overtake.

Had the stewards come back with "no penalty" for Vettel we would have seen Hamilton apply the pressure again and most likely get by with DRS.



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.kyle
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6/11/2019 12:11pm
Those mirrors are so senseless anyway. They can barely see anything out of them (proven) going in a straight line. Now have a guy driving at...
Those mirrors are so senseless anyway. They can barely see anything out of them (proven) going in a straight line. Now have a guy driving at a 45 degree angle through grass trying to stay out of a wall and somehow while doing all that he's supposed to be looking for a trailing car in his mirror that maaaaybe gives him a few cm of viewing radius above the rear tires. The stewards act like he was driving a touring car!

This is like giving a 5 second penalty to a guy leading a Supercross race because he makes a mistake and has to double a triple, thus forcing the rider behind to get on the brakes and double it with him. Just because you're following and have to hit the brakes doesn't make it dangerous. It's the responsibility of both racers in any racing situation to assess and evaluate the dangers for the decisions they make. Hamilton went for a gap that was always going to close on him but he made the decision to go for it anyway. The gap closed so he braked. No more danger than any other on track situation following a car that close. They're not fondling each other naked with snapping turtles. Now that's dangerous.
I know what the mirrors are like (size wise) as I own a pair.

The gap wasn't always going to close in on Hamilton - had Vettel kept off the racing line - which he could have done if he'd completely let off the gas until his car was settled Yeah, yeah, easier said than done....you've spent time in a simulator which apparently translates into real world car control....etc.

While I think the decision was wrong, I'm not sorry it happened to Ferrari and Vettel. When you get a german driver in that italian car you have a perfect recipe for complete and utter rule bending (putting it nicely). Case in point - the Schumacher days.
h4ck.b0x7
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6/11/2019 12:12pm
Hamilton and Vettel had a huge gap to 3rd place at the time. Hamilton was controlling the gap applying pressure to Vettel quite methodically. After the...
Hamilton and Vettel had a huge gap to 3rd place at the time. Hamilton was controlling the gap applying pressure to Vettel quite methodically.

After the incident (intelligently) Hamilton stayed in second while the stewards investigated the racing incident. Once the penalty was announced Hamilton had no need to risk the car or engine on an overtake.

Had the stewards come back with "no penalty" for Vettel we would have seen Hamilton apply the pressure again and most likely get by with DRS.



I disagree. Hamilton is a racer through and through, it’s not in his nature to pussyfoot lap after lap in second if he can pass.
deluxeman
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6/11/2019 3:29pm
Barrett57 wrote:
Picking up my dogs shit is more exciting than the average F1 race, my god is it mind numbing.
Most races you could say that. This one you could say that if there wasn't this 1 indecent that was over in .3 secs. Then the crying begins. Hamilton was getting beat, that is no longer allowed in F1 racing, Hamilton has to win, if not him, it must be a Mercedes car that wins. So Bottas was nowhere to be seen, so they had to throw the race to Hamilton who was not the fastest and could not catch Vettel.

It was a bullshit call and even Hamilton fans know it, even Hamilton knew it and tried to make it seem like it wasn't him crying about it. I used to like Louis but not so much now.

The only thing I like about F1 is the technology, they do some pretty wild stuff with those cars. Otherwise it is a pretty boring series, all the passing on the track is done by about the 4th turn. Most passes are made while one car is in the pits and tire strategy is the most important aspect of the race.
tcallahan707
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6/11/2019 6:28pm
I've driven simulators enough to know that when you go through grass you can't give any steering, braking or throttle input until you're back on tarmac...
I've driven simulators enough to know that when you go through grass you can't give any steering, braking or throttle input until you're back on tarmac and the car has "settled". Him steering to the right was to counteract the snap oversteer he got when doing the above. He didn't even move his head to look in his mirrors until after the incident happened. He was to busy trying to keep it out of the wall.
.kyle wrote:
Had it been me making the decision, I probably wouldn't have done anything. I did find that different angles seemed to show different intentions, but part...
Had it been me making the decision, I probably wouldn't have done anything. I did find that different angles seemed to show different intentions, but part of me doesn't feel it was severe enough to warrant a penalty.
The guy who make the penalty decision was/is a french Le Mans driver. A fairly useless former F1 driver who writes for the (horrible) BBC Sport said that Vettel deserved the penalty.
You don't have to move your head to look in the mirrors. The eyes can move more than enough for that.


One thing is for sure - Vettel can't handle pressure! At the end of the day, racing these days is nowhere near as exciting as it once was and rubbish like this only sterilizes it further.
Those mirrors are so senseless anyway. They can barely see anything out of them (proven) going in a straight line. Now have a guy driving at...
Those mirrors are so senseless anyway. They can barely see anything out of them (proven) going in a straight line. Now have a guy driving at a 45 degree angle through grass trying to stay out of a wall and somehow while doing all that he's supposed to be looking for a trailing car in his mirror that maaaaybe gives him a few cm of viewing radius above the rear tires. The stewards act like he was driving a touring car!

This is like giving a 5 second penalty to a guy leading a Supercross race because he makes a mistake and has to double a triple, thus forcing the rider behind to get on the brakes and double it with him. Just because you're following and have to hit the brakes doesn't make it dangerous. It's the responsibility of both racers in any racing situation to assess and evaluate the dangers for the decisions they make. Hamilton went for a gap that was always going to close on him but he made the decision to go for it anyway. The gap closed so he braked. No more danger than any other on track situation following a car that close. They're not fondling each other naked with snapping turtles. Now that's dangerous.
This.

The one thing I keep coming back to is what if Vettel hit Hamilton as he re-entered the track. I feel as though they would consider it more of a continuation of the mistake and look at it as more of a racing incident turned crash. But he didn't so they looked at it as though he wasn't "crashing" but in control and deliberately re-entered unsafely. Seems odd that he'd be penalized more for less of an impact on Hamilton's race.

Get sideways on a bike and take a guy out, no penalty. Get sideways on a bike and cross into his line so he has to brake, 5 seconds. Say what?
kage173
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6/11/2019 8:54pm
The F1 call was bullshit. As he entered the track the car became unstable and pushed to the right. He wasnt trying to enter back into the racing line. The car did that when it bounced up.

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