Vettel’s penalty - leaving the track isn’t just a moto problem

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6/10/2019 3:46 PM

For those of you that follow F1, you’ve certainly seen that the latest round resulting in the winner, not winning the race. For those that don’t, Sebastian Vettel went off the track, slid through the grass, and then accidentally (he wasn’t really in control) blocked Lewis Hamilton when he reentered. He was assessed a five second penalty for the unsafe reentry. So despite winning the race by a few seconds, he ultimately got second. He was pissed and felt the stewards got it wrong. Like many of the recent discussion about SX/MX “gaining an advantage” calls, opinions are mixed. I think they got it right, but I seem to be in the minority. You can’t cut a corner out of control or not, block a guy while re-entering (Lewis had to check up), and expect nothing to happen. Just goes to show that its not just our small sport that struggles with these decisions. Thoughts on the penalty - justified or no?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/motorsport-react-to-vettels-mental-penalty/

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6/10/2019 3:52 PM

Im torn on this one. As i was watching the race live, i thought the call was BS. After watching the incident a few more times, he definitely did impede Hamilton, even though he wasn't really in control of his car at the time. I feel like if hamilton was a little further back he could have ducked to the inside instead of trying to go around closer to the wall. Shitty situation and I for sure wanted Vettel to win that race, he deserved it.

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6/10/2019 4:00 PM

Hamilton had 4 wheels outside the race track. Should have been a penalty as well.

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6/10/2019 4:26 PM

I think the key phrase is "did you gain an advantage"? AC didn't. Vettel did. That said, if I was Seb I would be pissed too. He really didn't have a lot of room (or control) to do much else.

I do chuckle at all us armchair quarterbacks, pausing and freeze framing an event that happens at blistering speeds, in the blink of an eye and all you have are your innate reflexes telling you what to do and less than 3 tenths of a sec. to make a decision.

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6/10/2019 4:27 PM

Bullshit penalty

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6/10/2019 4:35 PM

twnorton wrote:

Hamilton had 4 wheels outside the race track. Should have been a penalty as well.

Because vettel regained the track and was still trying to regain control of his car and therefor forced Hamilton to take evasive action.

There shouldn’t be a time penalty. It was a racing incident. These guys are doing 130-150mph(?) thru that turn. On top of that, when you’re on the grass in one of those cars you are essentially a passenger at that point.

Why give him a time penalty at the heat of the moment? They couldn’t fine him later? Give him a grid penalty for the next race? There was FINALLY a battle for the lead this season and the FIA ruined it. That’s how you drive spectators and viewers away QUICK.

Sounds a lot like something the AMA/FIM would do.

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6/10/2019 4:35 PM

I would have let it go....but the rules..
Think the same thing happened to ham couple years ago..

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scte3.0 pro-line trinity tekin

6/10/2019 4:47 PM

Slightly different scenario since AC was following and gave an equal or bigger gap back after returning.
Seb was in front and intentionally went into Lewis’ line as he know Lewis would blow by if he left a cars width between him and the wall.
These guys are at the top of their game, they know what they are doing. Lewis would have done the same and would have also been penalised. Seb needs to own it, he knows what he did.
Reality is, if you want to beat Lewis you can’t make a mistake.
Bottas is in the same car and finished 5th last year behind both Ferrari’s and is 29 points back this year.
Lewis is peaking in the prime of his career while Mercedes is the car to be in. Like Schumacher in Ferrari, McGrath on Honda - records will fall.

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6/10/2019 5:07 PM

A time penalty was issued to I believe to the Red Bull driver earlier in the year for something similar and F 1 is known to be very aware that they need to be uniform on penalties and consistent so they are not accused of not playing fair with everyone. Vettel should have backed off and got in behind Hamilton and he would have not received a 5 second penalty and tried to repass him back. But as a racer in a heated race I would have done the same as him and not thought of backing off. But at least they are consistent not like other Racing Organizations.

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6/10/2019 5:09 PM

tingo wrote:

For those of you that follow F1, you’ve certainly seen that the latest round resulting in the winner, not winning the race. ...more

i agree

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"Life is Too Short To Last Long"

6/10/2019 5:32 PM

I thought it was a crap call when it happened and still do. I agree with Craig when he said, “There was FINALLY a battle for the lead this season and the FIA ruined it.” Seb’s front wheels were all over the place when he came out of the grass. I’m honestly surprised he didn’t hit the wall.

It would have been nice to see somebody else, aside from Magnusson in Q2, hit the Wall of Champions. A safety car around lap 55 or 60 would have been GREAT!!

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6/10/2019 5:40 PM

TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!! first race all year that we finally had something besides a Mercedes parade and FIA fucked us out of a 15 lap duel to the finish!! Hamilton did the same last race at Monaco cutting the chicane..........what da fuck ever happened to "racing"?!??!???! Hamilton had room, not much but was there...........just another example of the pussification of racing in this new PC era no matter how many wheels!!

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6/10/2019 5:57 PM

Mr. Info wrote:

A time penalty was issued to I believe to the Red Bull driver earlier in the year for something similar and F 1 is known to be ...more

Exactly what F1 regulators want to do achieve consistency in rulings . It is in the rules of the race "cutting a corner" and the min penalty one can get is 5 seconds. So the penalty is pretty much standard if anyone reads the rules and regulations.

In motogp they can calculate average time lost and gained. For example in this incident they could easily calculate Hamilton's average lap time and how much time Vettel cost him because he cut the corner which is illegal. And then "give it back " as it where to Lewis but the correct procedure is to give the min penalty to Vettel 5 secs. In terms of the rules they could apply the 5 sec in various ways. Add it to the final time. Add it to a pit stop.

It is no fun playing chess with anyone that does not abide by the rules of the game !

The Rules of the Game :

Penalties may be imposed on drivers for numerous offenses, including starting prematurely, speeding in the pitlane, causing an accident, blocking unfairly, or ignoring flags of any color. There are four types of penalty which a driver may incur for violation of on-track rules:

The five-second penalty is a very flexible one. A driver may serve it the next time they are due to pit. If they don't need to pit, then five seconds will be added to their time at the end of the race.
The drive-through penalty requires the driver to enter the pitlane, drive through it while obeying its speed limit, and exit without stopping. Drive-through penalties are normally imposed for minor offences, for example kerb-hopping at chicanes, ignoring yellow flags, and cutting corners.

Consistently and fairly applying the rules is very important and has been a problem in Motor sport for a while. They strive as much as possible to get the ruling fair and equal. If you cut a corner 5 sec.

Motogp as well exceeding track limits they also are consistently applying the rules as written.

Which is a good thing !!! AC the rule is enter the track at the next safe opportunity without gaining advantage. AC was within the rules of the game.

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6/10/2019 6:10 PM

craigathan404 wrote:

Because vettel regained the track and was still trying to regain control of his car and therefor forced Hamilton to take ...more

I agree. The penalty is bullshit. First actual race we've had this year and the FIA goes and fucks it up. I'm tired of seeing Mercedes 1-2s. This season is over and we are only a 1/3 of the way through the season

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6/10/2019 6:13 PM

Yep just because there was FINALLY a race for the lead, does not excuse Vettel for making a mistake and cutting the corner.

If the new age safety guidelines were not in place, he would be out of the race anyway as there would have either been kerbing or a tire barrier he would have had to smash through when making that mistake.

He lost control of his car, cut the track, but also an amazing job to get it back under control, but end of the day he cut the track, there is a penalty in place for that, he was penalized.

If his car was up to it, he could have pulled a five second lead over Ham and still claimed the victory.

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6/10/2019 6:58 PM

This isnt even a thing, Ray Charles could see both of those deals clearly!

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6/10/2019 6:58 PM

aaryn #234 wrote:

Yep just because there was FINALLY a race for the lead, does not excuse Vettel for making a mistake and cutting the corner.

...more

He was actually penalized for re-entering the track dangerously, not cutting the track.

Let’s face it, sure, he made a mistake, went off the track, and re entered in a spot that wasn’t great. But if you watch the on board footage, you can see that he’s trying like hell to regain control of the car. When he re enters the track, the kerb gives him another snap of oversteer which ultimately sent him even further into Hamilton’s line.

It’s a street circuit, it’s tight racing, and these guys are fkn flying. These guys aren’t robots. Vettel made a human error and the FIA penalized him as if he made the deliberate choice to re enter and block Hamilton.

Try and make a quick direction change on fresh cut grass at 150mph and let me know how that works for you...

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6/10/2019 7:04 PM

Its only a problem because you guys keep making it more than what it is

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6/10/2019 7:11 PM

aaryn #234 wrote:

Yep just because there was FINALLY a race for the lead, does not excuse Vettel for making a mistake and cutting the corner.

...more

craigathan404 wrote:

He was actually penalized for re-entering the track dangerously, not cutting the track.

Let’s face it, sure, he made a ...more

Your missing Open Wheeled Racing rules!

The problem was that Vettel was out of control going into the turn, and out of control coming out of the turn. With somebody pushing him.

Had he had his car under control, Hamilton would have over taken him and passed him because he would have been going slower so as to be under control.

Instead he was out of control, could have killed both of them BUT Hamilton had his car completely under control and backed off. Hamilton was rewarded for being under control. Vettel was penalized for being out of control and endangering another driver. Had Vettel done it all on his own, with no one around him, he wouldn’t have been penalized.

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6/10/2019 7:30 PM

aaryn #234 wrote:

Yep just because there was FINALLY a race for the lead, does not excuse Vettel for making a mistake and cutting the corner.

...more

craigathan404 wrote:

He was actually penalized for re-entering the track dangerously, not cutting the track.

Let’s face it, sure, he made a ...more

kkawboy14 wrote:

Your missing Open Wheeled Racing rules!

The problem was that Vettel was out of control going into the turn, and out of ...more

You’re definitely right. I was thinking the same thing had it happened while vettel was 5 seconds ahead after the pits. It really seemed like wrong place wrong time for the mistake to happen.

I’m a huge Mercedes fan. I worked for Mercedes for a long time. But I’m a racing fan first. I hate to see a good (potential) race stripped away like it was.

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6/10/2019 7:40 PM

I am not sure that Vettel could have kept the car to the left without taking both himself and Hamilton as he was still trying to get Controll of his car.

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6/10/2019 7:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/10/2019 7:54 PM

Mit12 wrote:

I am not sure that Vettel could have kept the car to the left without taking both himself and Hamilton as he was still trying ...more

Didn’t matter, Vettel was penalized for being out of control and endangering another driver!

AC didn’t endanger anyone.

Had Vettel not endangered another driver, had he done it all by himself, 10 seconds out front, Vettel wouldn’t have been penalized!

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6/10/2019 7:59 PM

And this is why F1 is considered to be the top tier of motorsports racing while motocross be all like “man AC dun screwed up, rode that there water truck lane, jumped the bud light banners, and was still on Coopers Ass. But damnit he gave him 1.7 seconds, he’s a good egg that one, no dadgum pentalty”

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6/10/2019 10:05 PM

The rule needs to be reworked imo, the FIA issued it as it is written. So with that being said, I say the rule sucks! The situation in and of itself should take priority over the black and white of the current rule. Every comment I read from past racers/champions was of the opinion that it was garbage. There are to many electronic aids on these cars as it is, the pure racing is being lost. One of the biggest factors in pure racing is human error, this is what adds to the excitement! A brake lock up, a blown corner etc. while fighting at and sometimes over the edge is something we see less and less of it seems. I’m sticking with team racing incident on this one and not because of driver or car preference. Swap the driver’s positions and I see it the same way 100%.

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6/10/2019 10:46 PM

One can’t ride/drive “over their head” and make the inevitable mistake without suffering a significant consequence.

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6/11/2019 12:59 AM

I don't like Vettel and I support Hamilton, but even I think the penalty was questionable!

There are some angles which show Vettel seemingly not having enough control over his trajectory, but there other angles which show him turning his steering wheel right just as Hamilton looks to go for the overtake.

Part of me just wants to say 'quit complaining, quit your appeals, bang bars and let's race'.

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6/11/2019 1:31 AM

F1 is disgusting to watch. It has been for at least decade.

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6/11/2019 7:55 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2019 8:47 AM

Part of the ruling was for "pushing a driver off track" which is impossible in turns 3/4 because there's a CONCRETE WALL defining the track limits.

Monaco 2016. Hamilton doing exactly what Vettel did. It was considered a racing incident.



We're just asking for consistency and you don't get that with a different set of stewards at each race. Some of them are just political fill ins for voting for the right people (Jean Todt). Some used to race. Some have very little experience at all. For many, this will be their only opportunity to be a steward so some might feel the need to "do something" with the power they have been given.

Besides, if Hamilton HAD passed Vettel on the outside all 4 of his tires were over the white line which is a rules infraction in F1. Both drivers broke a rule so no further action was needed.
Photo

Some needle dick sitting in a booth looking at monitors shouldn't have unregulated control over a teams 300 Million dollar racing effort. Who knows? Maybe one of them bet money on Hamilton winning. I doubt it but it's not impossible.
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6/11/2019 8:00 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2019 8:01 AM

.kyle wrote:

I don't like Vettel and I support Hamilton, but even I think the penalty was questionable!

There are some angles which show ...more

I've driven simulators enough to know that when you go through grass you can't give any steering, braking or throttle input until you're back on tarmac and the car has "settled". Him steering to the right was to counteract the snap oversteer he got when doing the above. He didn't even move his head to look in his mirrors until after the incident happened. He was to busy trying to keep it out of the wall.

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6/11/2019 8:13 AM

RacerX8 wrote:

The rule needs to be reworked imo, the FIA issued it as it is written. So with that being said, I say the rule sucks! The ...more

There's no electronic aids. They got rid of them in the 2009 regulations. They've been aid free for a decade.

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