Unobtainium parts

yzingggggger
Edited Date/Time 1/18/2021 5:59am
What are all these "Unobtainable" parts they talk of when talking about factory teams. There was a big deal about mookie in the racerx preveiw show and how he has more of an advantage now he is on a factory team because of unobtainable parts that non-factory teams just cant get.

When you look at it from a mechanical veiwpoint, there just bikes...custom suspension can be made, custom transmissions can be made ect ect. Why does everyone assume the factory guys have things that nobody else knows about?
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Rickyisms
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Rickyisms 1/14/2021 9:40pm
1/14/2021 9:40pm
I would bet they’re not “assuming” and are sure that the factory teams use parts they fabricate in house or in Japan.
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yzingggggger 1/14/2021 9:46pm
1/14/2021 9:46pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I would bet they’re not “assuming” and are sure that the factory teams use parts they fabricate in house or in Japan.
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
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Rickyisms
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Rickyisms 1/14/2021 9:50pm
1/14/2021 9:50pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I would bet they’re not “assuming” and are sure that the factory teams use parts they fabricate in house or in Japan.
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory parts from them.
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yzingggggger 1/14/2021 10:19pm
1/14/2021 10:19pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I would bet they’re not “assuming” and are sure that the factory teams use parts they fabricate in house or in Japan.
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Rickyisms wrote:
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory...
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory parts from them.
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says is 'factory parts'. They're just mx bikes, compared to other motorsports there pretty basic.
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Boomslang
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Boomslang 1/14/2021 10:27pm
1/14/2021 10:27pm
Rickyisms wrote:
I would bet they’re not “assuming” and are sure that the factory teams use parts they fabricate in house or in Japan.
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Rickyisms wrote:
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory...
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory parts from them.
Correct. A huge amount of resources goes into designing, manufacturing and testing of one off components. Often these components end up in the scrap heap and they start all over again. Plenty of R&D until they figure it out. Smaller teams do not have the budget and resources.

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mx216
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mx216 1/14/2021 10:33pm
1/14/2021 10:33pm
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Rickyisms wrote:
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory...
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory parts from them.
yzingggggger wrote:
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says...
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says is 'factory parts'. They're just mx bikes, compared to other motorsports there pretty basic.
Mainly budget holds back the smaller teams. Suspension and different tranny ratios will be the biggest expenses and the smaller teams for the most part cant afford that level of stuff.
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GoggleFiend904 1/14/2021 10:35pm
1/14/2021 10:35pm
I read from a poster on another forum that the factory ecu is a game changer. Something about it memorizing the track and traction control
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BMc914
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BMc914 1/14/2021 11:54pm
1/14/2021 11:54pm
MCR can get any factory Honda part they want to use for the bike. All that MCR has to do is pay for it.
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bigk218
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bigk218 1/15/2021 1:49am
1/15/2021 1:49am
Yet we still have the production rule which is a joke.
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Last Braaap
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Last Braaap 1/15/2021 1:59am
1/15/2021 1:59am
It was quite a journey but i managed to get HRC muffler bearing for myself. So OP, there are no unobtanium parts.
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BMc914
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BMc914 1/15/2021 2:37am
1/15/2021 2:37am
The MCR buying Factory Honda parts was on a podcast. One of the riders was talking about. I think it was Shane that said something about they can have any factory honda part just have to buy it.
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yzingggggger 1/15/2021 2:45am
1/15/2021 2:45am Edited Date/Time 1/15/2021 2:50am
Thanks for your replys as few have stated ECU. but most of you arnt listening to what im asking. *specifically* what parts would a factory bike have that a team like smarttop couldnt afford to make/buy/fabricate/design themselves. Personally I cant think of any *one* major part on a mx bike that would be worth over $30,000, and thats the major ones engine, tranny, suspension. That sort of money would be in alot of teams budger surely?
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yzingggggger 1/15/2021 2:49am
1/15/2021 2:49am Edited Date/Time 1/15/2021 2:51am
Dont come at me with "the factory guys get stuff out of japan that the other teams dont so they have a better bike"

1. I know this
2. Im asking what parts specifically, not just "factory bikes have parts others dont" - in a whiney voice (i assume)
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CPR
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CPR 1/15/2021 4:23am
1/15/2021 4:23am
yzingggggger wrote:
Thanks for your replys as few have stated ECU. but most of you arnt listening to what im asking. *specifically* what parts would a factory bike...
Thanks for your replys as few have stated ECU. but most of you arnt listening to what im asking. *specifically* what parts would a factory bike have that a team like smarttop couldnt afford to make/buy/fabricate/design themselves. Personally I cant think of any *one* major part on a mx bike that would be worth over $30,000, and thats the major ones engine, tranny, suspension. That sort of money would be in alot of teams budger surely?
I remember hearing just the forks on RV’s Kawi were worth $80000. And that was nearly 10 years ago.
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Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13 1/15/2021 4:34am
1/15/2021 4:34am
You're coming off as annoying.... If you don't get the ECU joke, there's nothing we can do for you here.
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moto314
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moto314 1/15/2021 5:56am
1/15/2021 5:56am
It's not necessarily the cost of the part itself, but the cost to develop the part. Factory teams will spend $100K to develop a $250 part easily.
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40acres
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40acres 1/15/2021 6:00am
1/15/2021 6:00am
He's asking about specific, one-off factory parts. These "factory ecu" and "torque your sprocket bolts" inside jokes are fucking worn out and annoying. The guy joined this forum last month, you think he gets 3 year old inside jokes?
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kb228
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kb228 1/15/2021 6:09am
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Rickyisms wrote:
I would bet they’re not “assuming” and are sure that the factory teams use parts they fabricate in house or in Japan.
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Honda has better engineers, R&D, and machines to fabricate parts than does smart top. The benefit is getting parts tailored to each rider. Smart top doesnt have millions of dollars to pour into stuff like that. A good cnc is $250,000 alone
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Jardo 1/15/2021 6:18am
1/15/2021 6:18am
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Rickyisms wrote:
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory...
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory parts from them.
yzingggggger wrote:
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says...
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says is 'factory parts'. They're just mx bikes, compared to other motorsports there pretty basic.
Your question is which individual parts specifically give them the advantage, correct?

I don't believe its one 'miracle' part, but more like a combination of 50 different parts with slight advantages.

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MyBobbym
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MyBobbym 1/15/2021 6:19am
1/15/2021 6:19am
yzingggggger wrote:
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would...
Yeah I bet they do. That doesnt mean a team like smarttop couldn't fabricate there own parts just the way they want them. So why would a factory team be any better off. a mx bike is relatively basic, the rider usually limits the bike not the other way round. Its not as though they're racing F1GP and have 300million budget..
Rickyisms wrote:
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory...
Mechanics, budget, resources and testing equipment probably hold back MCR from making their own parts, but they’re are helped out by HRC and get some factory parts from them.
yzingggggger wrote:
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says...
Lol 'factory parts' doesnt answer my question. Im asking specifically what can the factory guys make that smaller teams can not as all anyone ever says is 'factory parts'. They're just mx bikes, compared to other motorsports there pretty basic.
It's the R&D and the costs associated with developing the part I'd guess. Backed by smart engineers and a shit pot full of em too.
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mx317
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mx317 1/15/2021 6:42am
1/15/2021 6:42am
yzingggggger wrote:
Dont come at me with "the factory guys get stuff out of japan that the other teams dont so they have a better bike" 1. I...
Dont come at me with "the factory guys get stuff out of japan that the other teams dont so they have a better bike"

1. I know this
2. Im asking what parts specifically, not just "factory bikes have parts others dont" - in a whiney voice (i assume)
Has anyone gave you the old STFU Newbie yet? If not, STFU Newbie and welcome to Vital!
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GoggleFiend904 1/15/2021 6:48am
1/15/2021 6:48am
GoggleFiend904 wrote:
I read from a poster on another forum that the factory ecu is a game changer. Something about it memorizing the track and traction control
This was a serious post btw.. not a factory ecu joke.


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crawfishoo 1/15/2021 6:56am
1/15/2021 6:56am
Two different thoughts here.

1) It is not parts, it is time, resources, and money. Physical parts are inexpensive compared to the R&D cost associated with them. Factory teams have larger budgets but more important they have people, resources, and a much larger vault of knowledge and information to glean on.

But there are also parts that teams can not get regardless of budget.

2) Proprietary processes or materials that factory teams use would constitute "unobtanium". For example, a factory team such as Honda HRC could have a heat treatment process that allows them to run higher contact stress on the camshaft than a traditional hardened cam. That allows them to make cam lobes thinner and reduce rotating mass in the engine. The heat treatment process used on the cam is a trade secret or proprietary to Honda, thus the cam would be unobtanium.

Heat treating and metal working processes are some of the most valuable and guarded information in racing and manufacturing industries. With that in mind, you or I will never know or hear about those processes or parts. If it was common knowledge the advantage is gone.

Do factory bikes have "unobtainium" parts? Absolutely!

Will you, myself, mechanic, rider, or even team manager know all the details of those parts? No
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Dirty Points 1/15/2021 7:07am
1/15/2021 7:07am Edited Date/Time 1/15/2021 7:09am
moto314 wrote:
It's not necessarily the cost of the part itself, but the cost to develop the part. Factory teams will spend $100K to develop a $250 part...
It's not necessarily the cost of the part itself, but the cost to develop the part. Factory teams will spend $100K to develop a $250 part easily.
Exactly - and test it. Most folks can figure out how to machine a suspension link in a slightly different shape, but the factories have the resources to see where the improvement and difficencies may be, prototype, iterate, and collect the data before presenting it to the rider.
Turbojez
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Turbojez 1/15/2021 7:18am
1/15/2021 7:18am
Johnny Depp wrote:
52mm forks
Not unobtanium actually, I sold some sets to Vital members within a couple of last years Wink
But don't tell anyone!
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slipdog
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slipdog 1/15/2021 7:26am
1/15/2021 7:26am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
You're coming off as annoying.... If you don't get the ECU joke, there's nothing we can do for you here.
I clicked specifically for the ECU joke and would have been disappointed without one...
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Buckland
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Buckland 1/15/2021 7:36am
1/15/2021 7:36am
yzingggggger wrote:
Dont come at me with "the factory guys get stuff out of japan that the other teams dont so they have a better bike" 1. I...
Dont come at me with "the factory guys get stuff out of japan that the other teams dont so they have a better bike"

1. I know this
2. Im asking what parts specifically, not just "factory bikes have parts others dont" - in a whiney voice (i assume)
One example Reed gave (maybe WT interview?) was when he was getting factory Honda parts there was a front end combination that included special offset fork lugs, which combined with a matched axle and clamps (?) gave him the feel he was looking for. Factory parts could be any similar hard parts, but as stated above are a product of extensive testing and work in combination with others.
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Kennyfreemoney 1/15/2021 8:33am
1/15/2021 8:33am
CPR wrote:
I remember hearing just the forks on RV’s Kawi were worth $80000. And that was nearly 10 years ago.
this is very hard to believe for me. Someone please explain how a set of forks can cost $80k. Are you talking R&D included? or his forks cost $80k to make?
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