Unique AMA scoring incident…

Related:
Create New Tag

6/8/2021 6:51 PM

Okay, so this happened at a local race. I’m curious how the Vitards would’ve scored this.

I don’t know the two classes in this moto, but it was a double drop and a 4 lap race. Both gates drop, everyone goes. I don’t know the names of the two parties, so I’ll call them rider A and rider B. Prior to the 4th and last lap, rider B gets lapped and finishes the moto. Meanwhile, rider A doesn’t get lapped and is finishing their last lap. During that last lap, rider A eats shit and is knocked out cold. Ten minutes later, rider A gets up and finishes the moto and cutting across the track to do so. In the results, rider A placed one spot ahead of rider B.


The end result doesn’t matter. Rider B doesn’t really care, but for conversation purposes only, who should’ve been scored ahead of who? I don’t know the answer to this! Rider B would have obviously passed unconscious rider A, but wasn’t able to due to being lapped. But, rider A did finish the race (but probably shouldn’t have).

|

6/8/2021 6:53 PM

What the actual F???

|

Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

6/8/2021 6:57 PM

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

|

6/8/2021 7:05 PM

Photo
|

2011 Yamaha YZ 250 -MX
1996 Yamaha Banshee 350 -Trails
1982 Chevy S10
2005 Pontiac GTO -451rwhp

6/8/2021 7:45 PM

Rider A should receive either a DNF (must take the checkered flag to be scored) or a DSQ for cutting the track to take the checkered flag.

|

6/8/2021 7:46 PM

Scoring would show rider A completing the 4 laps while rider B was lapped and got the checkers on lap 3. Rider A is scored ahead of Rider B anyway you look at it.

|

6/8/2021 7:53 PM

Photo
|

Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

6/8/2021 8:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/8/2021 8:36 PM

Toast is dough cooked twice

|

6/8/2021 9:41 PM

Under pro rules rider A finishes ahead even if he doesn’t cross the finish line.
Under amateur rules you have to cross the finish line so if you lap everyone but your bike dies on the last lap you get a dnf.

Had this issue at the AQ at Riverfront. Checkered flag guy lost track of the race. My daughter saw the white flag twice then her bike died on lap 7 of a 4 lap race. She was given dnf even though she had lapped to 4th and some kids were 2 laps behind her.

Ama amateur rules date back to 1970s flat track and no one on the rule committee actively races or attends any races. That’s the issue in a nutshell.

|

6/9/2021 4:18 AM

slipdog wrote:

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

You have to finish to finish.

|

6/9/2021 4:33 AM

Same for Enduro/Hare Scramble

You score on how many laps you do in 3 hours for example. If you get to the finish line with say with a flat tyre at say 2h50. You have to complete another lap or dnf. You can take as long as you you like to finish within reason. Some riders stop around the corner from the finish line then wait for the 3 hours to pass then cross the finish line to ensure a finish (Not top runners obviously)

So similar concept.

|

6/9/2021 4:48 AM

......."During that last lap, rider A eats shit and is knocked out cold"......

Thus rider A never took the checkered flag on the specified lap.....DNF

|

Germany 1975 250 CZ Centerport, laydown shocks, mikuni with reed valve, Marzocchi forks with me as the motopilot

6/9/2021 5:43 AM

109 wrote:

Under pro rules rider A finishes ahead even if he doesn’t cross the finish line.
Under amateur rules you have to cross the ...more

Ama amateur rules date back to 1970s flat track and no one on the rule committee actively races or attends any races. That’s the issue in a nutshell.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And with that statement...................... you don't know what you are talking about.

most everyone I know on rule committee's have been racing a long time, and most still attend if not all, and a large majority either run events, or race events regularly.

just because a "rule" is old doesn't make it obsolete.

|

6/9/2021 6:05 AM

slipdog wrote:

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

philG wrote:

You have to finish to finish.

He said he got up and finished.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!

6/9/2021 6:58 AM

slipdog wrote:

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

philG wrote:

You have to finish to finish.

Photo


|

6/9/2021 7:01 AM

slipdog wrote:

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

philG wrote:

You have to finish to finish.

Unless it's a pro national...

|

6/9/2021 7:07 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/9/2021 7:08 AM

slipdog wrote:

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

philG wrote:

You have to finish to finish.

Admittedly, I didnt know the differences betweeen the amatuer and pro rulebooks but for the sake of this disussion I believe the pro rule should apply. .

|

6/9/2021 8:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/9/2021 8:11 AM

From my time as an AMA ref, you have to make half the laps and take the checkered flag to be awarded a finish position. This is on the non-pro level.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!

6/9/2021 9:08 AM

mx317 wrote:

From my time as an AMA ref, you have to make half the laps and take the checkered flag to be awarded a finish position. This ...more

Correct - only racing series I’ve seen with this rule.

Formula 1, MXGP, AMA Supercross / Motocross

If you lap the whole field and your bike dies on the last lap you still win. As it’s physically impossible for the rest of the field to unlap themselves. Best they can do is the same number of laps in a slower time.

The way the amateur rule is written is. If it’s a 10 lap race and your bike dies on lap 9. Someone who’s only done 5 laps but physically passes the checkered flag beats you. That’s just stupid.

|

6/9/2021 4:42 PM

The much larger problem here is that the race was only 4 laps.

|

6/9/2021 4:53 PM

VRR7 wrote:

Same for Enduro/Hare Scramble

You score on how many laps you do in 3 hours for example. If you get to the finish line with ...more

Huh? If it was a gncc (or any local series I know) you’d be scored for 3 laps.

|

6/9/2021 6:48 PM

How can you finish the moto 10 minutes later after being knocked out on the last lap?

How can people rule on this scenario that doesn’t make any sense?

How can I get the 5 minutes back I wasted trying to figure out what the hell your talking about?

|

6/9/2021 8:17 PM

T-Fish wrote:

Okay, so this happened at a local race. I’m curious how the Vitards would’ve scored this.

I don’t know the two classes in ...more

Check Dylan’s position at the 2019 San Diego SX. He broke his bike on the last lap. Never crossed the finish line. I think he got 7th. Finished in front of everyone who got lapped.

|

6/9/2021 8:27 PM

DA498 wrote:

How can you finish the moto 10 minutes later after being knocked out on the last lap?

How can people rule on this scenario ...more

This

|

6/10/2021 8:45 PM

The pro rules are fair and the amateur rules should be changed to match.

|

6/10/2021 9:55 PM

Because they were lapped, their race was only 3 laps and the race was over at the finish of lap three.

|

6/10/2021 11:37 PM

Interesting! Not as simple as I first thought. Whaddya know!

|

6/11/2021 12:34 PM

slipdog wrote:

Rider A crossed the line on lap 4 before rider B so even if he didn't finish the race he still beats rider B.

philG wrote:

You have to finish to finish.

slipdog wrote: Photo


Happy to see Windham get this win. I remember watching the race and Chad Reed was off the track A LOT. In a mud race, his off the track lines were far superior. Glad to see Karma dealt out so rapidly in that race.

|

In an infinite universe, anything is possible!

6/11/2021 9:56 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2021 9:58 PM

109 wrote:

Under pro rules rider A finishes ahead even if he doesn’t cross the finish line.
Under amateur rules you have to cross the ...more

This is dead wrong. Almost everyone on the rules committee attends many race of the year. People like Jeff Cernic, Richard White, Gerhard Ward, Mike Quinn. All people who attend many many many races That being said, you were correct that this probably needs to be looked at further but AMA Motocross commission in their next meeting

|

6/12/2021 4:24 AM

T-Fish wrote:

Okay, so this happened at a local race. I’m curious how the Vitards would’ve scored this.

I don’t know the two classes in ...more

dv12.com wrote:

Check Dylan’s position at the 2019 San Diego SX. He broke his bike on the last lap. Never crossed the finish line. I think he ...more

I remember when this changed. At Gatorback Bailey and Glover lapped the entire 500 class during the moto. Bailey crashed at the bottom of the hill within site of the finish line and was awarded no points and a DNF because he didn't take the checkered flag. He had finished the same amount of laps faster than the one that was given second place. The rule was changed after that and I believe it cost him the 500 title that year (not 100% sure on that). I was there the day it happened.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!