Undisputed king of the holeshot

JMS800
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JMS800 5/11/2020 8:58pm
5/11/2020 8:58pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2020 9:04pm
It was spoken about on Pulp a while back, Tony/Mike would count the seconds between the 5 second board and the gate drop and most of the time the starter was dropping the gate at the exact same time each race. So mike would just count those seconds in his head and go for it. Most of the time he was right
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Mxracer607
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Mxracer607 5/11/2020 9:00pm
5/11/2020 9:00pm
davis224 wrote:
What year was it that Short turned into holeshot master for a bit outdoors? 2010? Same year he won a moto or overall at Freestone? Edit...
What year was it that Short turned into holeshot master for a bit outdoors? 2010? Same year he won a moto or overall at Freestone?

Edit, looked in the vault and couldn't find it. Am I remembering it wrong? I could have sworn he won a moto at Freestone on a Factory Honda one year.
If I remember right that season he was practicing perfecting the third gear start
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Bingslayer 5/11/2020 9:50pm
5/11/2020 9:50pm
I have heard Jeff watches the dog box from afar with binoculars and signals Mike with a lazer when to drop the clutch. I have never seen any evidence of this though, no wait......... 😅
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davis224
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davis224 5/12/2020 6:57am
5/12/2020 6:57am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 6:58am
davis224 wrote:
What year was it that Short turned into holeshot master for a bit outdoors? 2010? Same year he won a moto or overall at Freestone? Edit...
What year was it that Short turned into holeshot master for a bit outdoors? 2010? Same year he won a moto or overall at Freestone?

Edit, looked in the vault and couldn't find it. Am I remembering it wrong? I could have sworn he won a moto at Freestone on a Factory Honda one year.
visser62 wrote:
2010 he won a moto at Budds and was getting a lot of holeshots that year. He won Freestone I think in 2007 when that title...
2010 he won a moto at Budds and was getting a lot of holeshots that year. He won Freestone I think in 2007 when that title went down to the wire with Langston, Ferry, and Alessi. He also got a lot of holeshots in 2014 on the KTM.
aFACEdismembered wrote:
The year he won the first Moto at Freestone was with factory Honda and water from pressure washing got in his electronics and he missed the...
The year he won the first Moto at Freestone was with factory Honda and water from pressure washing got in his electronics and he missed the start for Moto 2 IIRC.
Looking back at the vault, that would be impressive if true, he got 5th the 2nd moto. Both his moto wins, actually. 1-5 at Freestone in 2007 and 1-5 at Budds in 2010.

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FuzzyLogic
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FuzzyLogic 5/12/2020 7:47am
5/12/2020 7:47am
JMS800 wrote:
It was spoken about on Pulp a while back, Tony/Mike would count the seconds between the 5 second board and the gate drop and most of...
It was spoken about on Pulp a while back, Tony/Mike would count the seconds between the 5 second board and the gate drop and most of the time the starter was dropping the gate at the exact same time each race. So mike would just count those seconds in his head and go for it. Most of the time he was right
If this were the case wouldn't there be 15-20+ instances where Mike piled into the gate before it dropped? Maybe it has happened more than I'm aware, but if this is the primary method then A.) more people would have this figured out B.) He would have had more than a few misses that resulted in being stuck in the gate or C.) its an anomaly that he, and only he, had figured out.
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 5/12/2020 8:08am
5/12/2020 8:08am
Maybe just maybe the rest of the riders on the line aren't worth a shit (good, not great) on starting. Just not quite as good in all aspects of launching a dirt bike off a gate.

Starts are like whoops, it's all in the head/mind in my opinion.
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 5/12/2020 9:13am
5/12/2020 9:13am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 9:15am
Whatever Allessi was doing........ Tomac and Larocco aren’t and weren’t doing!
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JAFO92
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JAFO92 5/12/2020 9:21am
5/12/2020 9:21am
BobbyM wrote:
Maybe just maybe the rest of the riders on the line aren't worth a shit (good, not great) on starting. Just not quite as good in...
Maybe just maybe the rest of the riders on the line aren't worth a shit (good, not great) on starting. Just not quite as good in all aspects of launching a dirt bike off a gate.

Starts are like whoops, it's all in the head/mind in my opinion.
I agree with that one. Of course you need crazy good hand-eye timing, but IMHO the rest is confidence and mental.
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keinz
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keinz 5/12/2020 9:37am
5/12/2020 9:37am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 9:38am
Sorry guys, but one dude from Sicily don't agree with you about that holeshot king


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Jeremy Macbeth 5/12/2020 9:39am
5/12/2020 9:39am
Bingslayer wrote:
I have heard Jeff watches the dog box from afar with binoculars and signals Mike with a lazer when to drop the clutch. I have never...
I have heard Jeff watches the dog box from afar with binoculars and signals Mike with a lazer when to drop the clutch. I have never seen any evidence of this though, no wait......... 😅
Lazers... magents... something's going on here and we're going to get to the bottom of it.
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PFitzG38
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PFitzG38 5/12/2020 10:02am
5/12/2020 10:02am
OR Racer46 wrote:
They are magnets . I asked Mike about it once . they are all over his bike . Not sure if he still runs them.
Jeremy Macbeth wrote:
Magnets... sensors of some sort. Given the two down by his boots, perhaps they are to provide feedback on foot/leg position?

I asked him about them too. He said it's for vibration damping. He didn't mention anything about magnets tho. He may have had no idea himself
PFitzG38
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PFitzG38 5/12/2020 10:05am
5/12/2020 10:05am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 10:08am
JMS800 wrote:
It was spoken about on Pulp a while back, Tony/Mike would count the seconds between the 5 second board and the gate drop and most of...
It was spoken about on Pulp a while back, Tony/Mike would count the seconds between the 5 second board and the gate drop and most of the time the starter was dropping the gate at the exact same time each race. So mike would just count those seconds in his head and go for it. Most of the time he was right
FuzzyLogic wrote:
If this were the case wouldn't there be 15-20+ instances where Mike piled into the gate before it dropped? Maybe it has happened more than I'm...
If this were the case wouldn't there be 15-20+ instances where Mike piled into the gate before it dropped? Maybe it has happened more than I'm aware, but if this is the primary method then A.) more people would have this figured out B.) He would have had more than a few misses that resulted in being stuck in the gate or C.) its an anomaly that he, and only he, had figured out.
Timing the gate - fun when it works, LOL. Most amateurs figure out this doesn't work enough to do regularly after about 5 tries.

It worked in my avatar pic

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peelout
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peelout 5/12/2020 10:33am
5/12/2020 10:33am
Jeremy Macbeth wrote:
Lazers... magents... something's going on here and we're going to get to the bottom of it.

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ACBraap
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ACBraap 5/12/2020 11:36am
5/12/2020 11:36am
t_baum88 wrote:
I could blow your mind and tell you he didn’t have any earth shattering tecuniques that could help your starts. It’s just a lot of small...
I could blow your mind and tell you he didn’t have any earth shattering tecuniques that could help your starts. It’s just a lot of small things put together and executed over and over.


The most important part is having a perfect routine on the line from 30 seconds before the gate drops until it’s dropped. That provides the most consistent result as possible, and also going to the line without a doubt in your mind you’re going to get the holeshot. If you compare what Mike is doing on the dirtbike from 30 seconds until gate drop from 15 years ago to now it’s going to look extremely similar.


That’s fuggin it boys.
He should be pursuing drag racing as a post mx career. He has the skills for it.
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Press516
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Press516 5/12/2020 12:15pm
5/12/2020 12:15pm
keinz wrote:
Sorry guys, but one dude from Sicily don't agree with you about that holeshot king [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/05/12/426671/s1200_Screenshot_2020_05_12_19.28.30.jpg[/img]
Sorry guys, but one dude from Sicily don't agree with you about that holeshot king


Cairoli has it for sure...

I was a good starter, but it was 40 years ago... It was just about feel (hard to quantify) and confidence. Don't underestimate the confidence factor... I could even get there on a bike that people said was just flat slow. Beat Warren Reid up the start hill at Mammoth in '81 when he was on a works SR125. Didn't last till the bottom of the first downhill, but all other things being equal, should my R&D RM125 beat a works SR125 up the hill? Simply no.

Guys like Alessi and Cairoli that are consistently pulling holeshots, have the feel and the confidence to do it repeatedly.

Alessi was really good, but for King, I give the nod to Cairoli.

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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 5/12/2020 12:19pm
5/12/2020 12:19pm
Still early in his pro career, but Jorge Prado.
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bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 5/12/2020 12:47pm
5/12/2020 12:47pm
Everyone has different reaction times, naturally. Try this test https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime.

I averaged 283ms on 5 tries, slower than average. I would imagine there are people who will be over 300ms and maybe a few under 200ms.

Funny thing is the harder I tried to improve my time, the slower the time got. Calm and relaxed seemed to yield the fastest reactions.
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peelout
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peelout 5/12/2020 2:23pm
5/12/2020 2:23pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 2:31pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Everyone has different reaction times, naturally. Try this test https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime. I averaged 283ms on 5 tries, slower than average. I would imagine there are people who...
Everyone has different reaction times, naturally. Try this test https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime.

I averaged 283ms on 5 tries, slower than average. I would imagine there are people who will be over 300ms and maybe a few under 200ms.

Funny thing is the harder I tried to improve my time, the slower the time got. Calm and relaxed seemed to yield the fastest reactions.
219 with taped nips here bro
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Press516
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Press516 5/12/2020 2:59pm
5/12/2020 2:59pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Everyone has different reaction times, naturally. Try this test https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime. I averaged 283ms on 5 tries, slower than average. I would imagine there are people who...
Everyone has different reaction times, naturally. Try this test https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime.

I averaged 283ms on 5 tries, slower than average. I would imagine there are people who will be over 300ms and maybe a few under 200ms.

Funny thing is the harder I tried to improve my time, the slower the time got. Calm and relaxed seemed to yield the fastest reactions.
I'm 56... Still snuck in there above average.


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neverwas
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neverwas 5/12/2020 3:23pm
5/12/2020 3:23pm
278,I think I need a $200 billet mouse with fancy bearings in it
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 5/12/2020 3:31pm
5/12/2020 3:31pm
Rodney smith holeshot both motos at Hi-Point in 1990 on a rm 125 stocker sans a AL posey cylinder and fmf pipe. Against all the factory scooters. Uphill and from the far outside.
SLAPAHO
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SLAPAHO 5/12/2020 3:39pm
5/12/2020 3:39pm
timed the gate perfect on this one.

couldn't get below 225 on 5 tries though... but i'm old so....





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level
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level 5/12/2020 6:16pm
5/12/2020 6:16pm
Probably a mixture of lot of different things but it’s all about speed. If he had his gearing set up and did third gear starts or double clicked up from 2nd to 4th. Who knows. But he is a master at them for sure. Before his big crash outdoors mike was killing it that year also. That set him back big time seemed never the same after that. But he was on fire that year outdoors.
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krazee1
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krazee1 5/12/2020 6:26pm
5/12/2020 6:26pm
Could it just be natural? I raced with Tony Alessi way back in 1981-82 and every time he got the biggest holeshots. I’m talking bike lengths on everyone. I can’t remember a race he didn’t holeshot. So there you go it’s inherited 😂
ga_pike
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ga_pike 5/12/2020 6:52pm
5/12/2020 6:52pm
BobbyM wrote:
Rodney smith holeshot both motos at Hi-Point in 1990 on a rm 125 stocker sans a AL posey cylinder and fmf pipe. Against all the factory...
Rodney smith holeshot both motos at Hi-Point in 1990 on a rm 125 stocker sans a AL posey cylinder and fmf pipe. Against all the factory scooters. Uphill and from the far outside.
He ran #135. I remember that because that was my number. DC put that photo on the cover of The Racing Paper. Good times!
Mugeneco 5/13/2020 1:33pm
5/13/2020 1:33pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Still early in his pro career, but Jorge Prado.
in 2018 he had 26 holeshots out of 40 moto's ... Cairoli had 19
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cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 5/14/2020 12:41am
5/14/2020 12:41am
t_baum88 wrote:
I could blow your mind and tell you he didn’t have any earth shattering tecuniques that could help your starts. It’s just a lot of small...
I could blow your mind and tell you he didn’t have any earth shattering tecuniques that could help your starts. It’s just a lot of small things put together and executed over and over.


The most important part is having a perfect routine on the line from 30 seconds before the gate drops until it’s dropped. That provides the most consistent result as possible, and also going to the line without a doubt in your mind you’re going to get the holeshot. If you compare what Mike is doing on the dirtbike from 30 seconds until gate drop from 15 years ago to now it’s going to look extremely similar.


That’s fuggin it boys.
usp4u wrote:
been a drag racer as long or longer than I've been an MXer......a calm, diligent, repeatable starring line procedure is unbelievably important to success. No tricks...
been a drag racer as long or longer than I've been an MXer......a calm, diligent, repeatable starring line procedure is unbelievably important to success. No tricks, just do the same thing, the same way, every single time.

Once you have consistency, only then can you make meaningful improvements.

If you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
I've heard Dubach say these same things about having a routine.

I have a very close friend who is 59 who could still likely holeshot the pro class on a good day at the local track. He goes to the start knowing he can pull a start and that sure helps.


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MBR
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MBR 5/14/2020 6:24am
5/14/2020 6:24am
We did this "start reaction training video" for our EMX150 boys back in 2014.

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