USGP CARLSBAD

avidchimp
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12/3/2017 11:24am
Booby M and Bauer were some bad, bad dudes on a dirt scooter back in the day.
line-up
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12/3/2017 11:26am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I wasn't at the GP races as a teen in the late 70s, but it sure seemed from the reporting that there weren't 40 riders following...
I wasn't at the GP races as a teen in the late 70s, but it sure seemed from the reporting that there weren't 40 riders following the entire series but rather about 15-20 full time guys and then a bunch of really fast "local" guys who'd be pretty competitive at their home GP, and maybe a few other events. Perhaps it wasn't quite that way, but it sure seemed like that.

1979 seems to be a good example of that. Just racing that one US round left 3 riders who only raced that USGP in the top 20 of the final point standings, 6 in the top 25. Perhaps some of those euro riders who scored 5 points or fewer for the entire season did all the events, but it didn't seem like they were back then.
It was exactly like you mentioned.
At that time and also during the 80's - the "golden era" of motocross - just 10 to 15 regulars would do all the GP's.
It was very common for most of the riders based in countries like France, Germany, Austria or Italy to skip the rounds in Northern Europe (and vice versa) as they did not have a budget to even get that far. And a few of them that had some budget were reluctant to drive 2000 miles from Spain all the way to Sweden just to try to qualify for the GP.
ruy
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12/3/2017 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2017 1:33pm
Well, in Europe there was always a large group of pilots following the world championship, it was not easy to qualify, also for the local pilots is very difficult, in Spain only the best pros take the star in the GP races. Also there are a few pros from Spain following the world champioship in the Europe races in the 80s
Here Fernando Muñoz in one GP in Holland I think...


Robgvx
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12/3/2017 1:42pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I wasn't at the GP races as a teen in the late 70s, but it sure seemed from the reporting that there weren't 40 riders following...
I wasn't at the GP races as a teen in the late 70s, but it sure seemed from the reporting that there weren't 40 riders following the entire series but rather about 15-20 full time guys and then a bunch of really fast "local" guys who'd be pretty competitive at their home GP, and maybe a few other events. Perhaps it wasn't quite that way, but it sure seemed like that.

1979 seems to be a good example of that. Just racing that one US round left 3 riders who only raced that USGP in the top 20 of the final point standings, 6 in the top 25. Perhaps some of those euro riders who scored 5 points or fewer for the entire season did all the events, but it didn't seem like they were back then.
line-up wrote:
It was exactly like you mentioned. At that time and also during the 80's - the "golden era" of motocross - just 10 to 15 regulars...
It was exactly like you mentioned.
At that time and also during the 80's - the "golden era" of motocross - just 10 to 15 regulars would do all the GP's.
It was very common for most of the riders based in countries like France, Germany, Austria or Italy to skip the rounds in Northern Europe (and vice versa) as they did not have a budget to even get that far. And a few of them that had some budget were reluctant to drive 2000 miles from Spain all the way to Sweden just to try to qualify for the GP.
That wasn't the cas in my day. There were, I'd say at least 50 doing the full European circuit. Not many did the Overseas races, because that was a long, and expensive trip if you were in danger of not qualifying. The same could be said, to a degree, for Scandinavia. If you were someone on the knife edge of qualifying each week then it posed a bit of a risk.

But take the USGP out of it and saying only 10-15 did the full circuit isn't really correct.

The Shop

BMSOBx2
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12/3/2017 4:10pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
That's pretty badass, Bobby M- that is some fast company. I imagine your equipment was a big disadvantage at that point.
Not as much as you think. Wheelsmith Maicos were pretty bad ass piece of kit back then not cheap either. Not works but close. 1979 was right on the cusp of the megabuck 200 lb. unobtainium factory works machines & bikes like the Maico could still be competitive in the right hands.
APLMAN99
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12/3/2017 4:41pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I wasn't at the GP races as a teen in the late 70s, but it sure seemed from the reporting that there weren't 40 riders following...
I wasn't at the GP races as a teen in the late 70s, but it sure seemed from the reporting that there weren't 40 riders following the entire series but rather about 15-20 full time guys and then a bunch of really fast "local" guys who'd be pretty competitive at their home GP, and maybe a few other events. Perhaps it wasn't quite that way, but it sure seemed like that.

1979 seems to be a good example of that. Just racing that one US round left 3 riders who only raced that USGP in the top 20 of the final point standings, 6 in the top 25. Perhaps some of those euro riders who scored 5 points or fewer for the entire season did all the events, but it didn't seem like they were back then.
line-up wrote:
It was exactly like you mentioned. At that time and also during the 80's - the "golden era" of motocross - just 10 to 15 regulars...
It was exactly like you mentioned.
At that time and also during the 80's - the "golden era" of motocross - just 10 to 15 regulars would do all the GP's.
It was very common for most of the riders based in countries like France, Germany, Austria or Italy to skip the rounds in Northern Europe (and vice versa) as they did not have a budget to even get that far. And a few of them that had some budget were reluctant to drive 2000 miles from Spain all the way to Sweden just to try to qualify for the GP.
Robgvx wrote:
That wasn't the cas in my day. There were, I'd say at least 50 doing the full European circuit. Not many did the Overseas races, because...
That wasn't the cas in my day. There were, I'd say at least 50 doing the full European circuit. Not many did the Overseas races, because that was a long, and expensive trip if you were in danger of not qualifying. The same could be said, to a degree, for Scandinavia. If you were someone on the knife edge of qualifying each week then it posed a bit of a risk.

But take the USGP out of it and saying only 10-15 did the full circuit isn't really correct.
50 riders competing at every event except the US or Canadian rounds? That's completely different than it seemed to a young guy waiting for his Cycle News to come in the mail every Thursday........

Seemed like there were a lot of riders that probably did 3-4 GPs, but that outside of the factory guys not too many "privateers" did. I always assumed that it was because there was enough money racing pro class events locally that it just didn't make sense for them to skip those races that helped them make a living. Sort of like all the local pros that earned a living in California in the 70s and competed well at some Nationals, but made better money staying closer to home most of the year.

Of course I'm talking about what it seemed like in the 70s, not sure if that was your "day" or not.
BobbyM
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12/3/2017 4:57pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
That's pretty badass, Bobby M- that is some fast company. I imagine your equipment was a big disadvantage at that point.
Like my brother sez.. My wheelsmith Maico 250 was better than the factory maico. One of only a handful of 250 maico that ever made a sx Main. Better than the factory zooks and yammies and Hondas? Maybe...maybe not, pretty fucking close
G-man
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12/3/2017 9:09pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2017 11:53pm
Very cool. I was at that race I remember that program, only missed one USGP--the very first one.
Those were some epic races the crowds were huge and very animated it was a time when Motocross was in its Glory Days.

Must have been awesome for Bobby to race in front of the mass sea of spectators, bummer about the rear tire. I can't imagine trying to race that track with a flat tire, the track was gnarly and very unforgiving.
Robgvx
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12/4/2017 1:58am
APLMAN99 wrote:
50 riders competing at every event except the US or Canadian rounds? That's completely different than it seemed to a young guy waiting for his Cycle...
50 riders competing at every event except the US or Canadian rounds? That's completely different than it seemed to a young guy waiting for his Cycle News to come in the mail every Thursday........

Seemed like there were a lot of riders that probably did 3-4 GPs, but that outside of the factory guys not too many "privateers" did. I always assumed that it was because there was enough money racing pro class events locally that it just didn't make sense for them to skip those races that helped them make a living. Sort of like all the local pros that earned a living in California in the 70s and competed well at some Nationals, but made better money staying closer to home most of the year.

Of course I'm talking about what it seemed like in the 70s, not sure if that was your "day" or not.
My era was 1984 to 1990 so I can't speak for before that time. But certainly during my period in GPs there were lots of riders who did the full circuit (excluding the US and Canadian rounds). There were 10 British riders alone who raced the full circuit in the late '80s. That was just in 500s - a quarter of the field!

As I mentioned, there were many 'lesser' riders (although that's unfair to call anyone racing those events 'lesser') who didn't travel to the more distant (expensive) races such as Sweden and Finland, (or GB if you were based in mainland or Southern Europe). But those were riders who, as I said, might not be qualifying regularly anyway, or, perhaps were Italian hard-pack specialists who didn't fancy their chances in the sand of Scandinavia or Hawkstone Park (and vice versa for Benelux sand flies who struggled on the concrete in Italy).

And yes, you did get unknowns racing just their local GPs. Brit Andy Nicholls won his first ever 250 GP race as an unknown at Newbury in 1984. And in the Dutch sand sand you'd see local guys you'd never heard of up the front, at least in timed training.

Certainly the '80s seemed to be the most popular era in terms of number of riders participating. In Britain there were perhaps more than 20 riders who raced all or most of the GPs across the three classes. The prize and start money structure back then meant that if you qualified you certainly covered the costs of getting there.

Compare that to today where we have just a handful of British GP riders. That has hurt the speed of the British riders in my view. Racing with the best in GPs brought on the speed of all the British riders in the eighties, and now, with so few GP riders the level appears to have dropped at home.


robkinuk
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12/4/2017 4:08am
BobbyM wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/12/02/229035/s1200_20171202_100546_1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/12/02/229036/s1200_20171202_100827_Burst01.jpg[/img]




Bobby,
Great result, could have been so much better without that puncture!
Have you got any good photos from Carlsbad?
Let me know and I will work you out a great quote to get this finest moment captured in oils on canvas!
You can email to:
robakinsey@hotmail.com
ruy
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12/4/2017 4:11am


Toni Elias, Derbi 125cc, Holland GP in early 80s
Bearuno
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12/5/2017 12:02am Edited Date/Time 12/5/2017 12:49am
Robgvx, did you get over to the USGP in your years?

I think the Canadian GP may have ceased by your GP campaigns, but am probably wrong.

I assume you did the USGP the year you got 9th (if I remember correctly) in the World 500 Championships.

As to your points on local specialists - I've mentioned it before, but on one of the 86 to 90 World 500 Championships DVDs ( I Urge people that Don't have the set to get it - it cost's buggerall from Duke Marketing, and it's great - if a little frustrating that a few rounds each year are missing from them ) when Kurt N talks about the Dutch / Euro Sand Specialists, it's quite a chuckle. Mind you, the Brit commentator never seems to get tired of putting shit on Italian riders, rarely acknowledging how well they were doing, but gloating over any prangs they had.

Your comment :" The prize and start money structure back then meant that if you qualified you certainly covered the costs of getting there. "

They could do it then - Luongo needs to make it so again. The damage he's doing to the sport, by limiting participation whilst he 'grows the sport' - whilst lining his pockets and making it difficult for Riders / Teams, needs to be stopped. Fat chance of that ever happening, I fear, whilst he 'owns' the sport until, I think, 2026. Hell, I hope his son, David, can care for the sport better as he seems to play more of a role in his Dad's empire. But, that seems a slim possibility, as ever, it will probably turn out 'like Father, like Son'.
Robgvx
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12/5/2017 12:47am
Bearuno wrote:
[b]Robgvx[/b], did you get over to the USGP in your years? I think the Canadian GP may have ceased by your GP campaigns, but am probably...
Robgvx, did you get over to the USGP in your years?

I think the Canadian GP may have ceased by your GP campaigns, but am probably wrong.

I assume you did the USGP the year you got 9th (if I remember correctly) in the World 500 Championships.

As to your points on local specialists - I've mentioned it before, but on one of the 86 to 90 World 500 Championships DVDs ( I Urge people that Don't have the set to get it - it cost's buggerall from Duke Marketing, and it's great - if a little frustrating that a few rounds each year are missing from them ) when Kurt N talks about the Dutch / Euro Sand Specialists, it's quite a chuckle. Mind you, the Brit commentator never seems to get tired of putting shit on Italian riders, rarely acknowledging how well they were doing, but gloating over any prangs they had.

Your comment :" The prize and start money structure back then meant that if you qualified you certainly covered the costs of getting there. "

They could do it then - Luongo needs to make it so again. The damage he's doing to the sport, by limiting participation whilst he 'grows the sport' - whilst lining his pockets and making it difficult for Riders / Teams, needs to be stopped. Fat chance of that ever happening, I fear, whilst he 'owns' the sport until, I think, 2026. Hell, I hope his son, David, can care for the sport better as he seems to play more of a role in his Dad's empire. But, that seems a slim possibility, as ever, it will probably turn out 'like Father, like Son'.
I did the (last) Carlsbad USGP in 1986, and the Canadian GP was the week before. I'd badly cut my arm the week before the Canadian GP (an accident walking through a shop window) and went to Canada in plaster, 10 days after surgery. Hacksawed it off at the track on the Friday evening. I'd told my surgeon that this is what I needed to do, and while he was somewhat horrified and said he really couldn't recommend that I raced, he understood why I wanted to. I managed a tenth I think in Canada I got a 13th at Carlsbad.

Back then the Italians were awesome on hard pack and the Dutch were awesome in sand. Put either of those guys on the other surface though and they struggled. Really, like they could top-five in their conditions and not qualify on the other surface. It's not like that these days!

The commentators on those tapes were truly terrible. Sorry about that.

Re Luongo, he's going to own the sport forever I'm afraid. Srb is manoeuvring himself into the frame for FIM president in the near future so expect a new contract for YS as soon as that happens.
Bearuno
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12/5/2017 1:13am Edited Date/Time 12/5/2017 4:19am
Srb - every time I still see that Bastard turning up at the GPs ( I bet his FIM expenses pay for his high end flights and accommodation) I seethe inside. I'd hoped we'd see less of him as he became the European FIM president (I think that's what he is), after 'moving up' from being the Motocross Commission head .

But, he's still turning up. I've had words with him at a few GPs over the years, and the consummate Politician = Slimeball you could not invent better.

We still need that FB site that was set up to show the labyrinthine web of dishonesty and corruption that is the FIM / Luongo set up, but it's long since disappeared. High end Swiss Lawyers, or (less than) subtle persuasion from sinister people? - probably a combination of both, I reckon.

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