USADA Testing

5/25/2014 10:52am Edited Date/Time 5/25/2014 5:30pm
Any news on how this went? Who was tested? Did all riders supply a control sample?

Were there any riders suspiciously absent?

Whistling
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GuyB
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5/25/2014 11:01am
Any news on how this went? Who was tested? Did all riders supply a control sample?

Were there any riders suspiciously absent?

Whistling
I don't think it happens at every round. My guess? We'll see 2-3 rounds in competition.

They don't do control samples, but a bio passport is developed over time.

There was an informational meeting on Friday afternoon that was well-attended.
GuyB
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5/25/2014 11:02am
I see what you did there.... That's just fucked up.
I'd agree with that.

For all of you that are interested in this, you can educate yourself here. http://usada.org/

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CarlinoJoeVideo
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5/25/2014 11:36am
I imagine that it will be 3 random rounds, a surprise test would make the most sense. That's how it's done in Olympic sports.
5/25/2014 11:44am
I see what you did there.... That's just fucked up.
GuyB wrote:
I'd agree with that.

For all of you that are interested in this, you can educate yourself here. http://usada.org/
I honestly doubt there is much if any TRUE PED use in the sport. I do believe there may be some HGH use during injury recovery as quick as some guys are returning from injuries. EPO might be in use or some blood doping but I doubt it.

They really should be checking for IV's in motorhomes.
englishman
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5/25/2014 11:44am
A lot of testing - at least in other sports - is " out of competition " they just show up at your house unannounced and you give samples.

Does this apply to MX GuyB ?
GuyB
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5/25/2014 11:47am
englishman wrote:
A lot of testing - at least in other sports - is " out of competition " they just show up at your house unannounced and...
A lot of testing - at least in other sports - is " out of competition " they just show up at your house unannounced and you give samples.

Does this apply to MX GuyB ?
Yes. It's also a "full menu," including looking for blood doping.
GuyB
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5/25/2014 11:48am
I honestly doubt there is much if any TRUE PED use in the sport. I do believe there may be some HGH use during injury recovery...
I honestly doubt there is much if any TRUE PED use in the sport. I do believe there may be some HGH use during injury recovery as quick as some guys are returning from injuries. EPO might be in use or some blood doping but I doubt it.

They really should be checking for IV's in motorhomes.
So how do they do that? Assign a big brother monitor to every rider at every race?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just trying to figure out how you think the logistics of that would work.
5/25/2014 11:59am
GuyB wrote:
So how do they do that? Assign a big brother monitor to every rider at every race? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just trying...
So how do they do that? Assign a big brother monitor to every rider at every race?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just trying to figure out how you think the logistics of that would work.
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is set up everything is right there and out in the open. Fans would notice an IV so Big Brother as you put it is kind of built in. It also gives the fan more access to the top guys. They all go hide every chance they get. A large air conditioned tent would work as well.

There would have to be something done for the restrooms as well.
GuyB
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5/25/2014 12:02pm
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is...
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is set up everything is right there and out in the open. Fans would notice an IV so Big Brother as you put it is kind of built in. It also gives the fan more access to the top guys. They all go hide every chance they get. A large air conditioned tent would work as well.

There would have to be something done for the restrooms as well.
This sounds like it's more for your benefit than the riders. Smile
5/25/2014 12:17pm
Where do the riders get all the medical supplies that they would need to participate in this underground rehydration ring?
5/25/2014 12:26pm
Where do the riders get all the medical supplies that they would need to participate in this underground rehydration ring?
Seriously? You can buy them online or get them from any EMT or Fireman. It's all available on AMAZON as well. I'm sure they have a Dr.

Doug Henry's wife used to give them to him in the box van.
5/25/2014 12:29pm
GuyB wrote:
This sounds like it's more for your benefit than the riders. Smile
That's not a benefit for me. I've met all the riders I want to meet most multiple times.

I think it benefits guys like Austin Howell, Ronnie Stewart, Michael Akaydin, the SEVEN DUECE DUECE, Nick Schmidt, Scott Champion, Chris Blose, and more.

I'm talking about leveling the paying field a little bit. That is the whole point of drug testing is it not?
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5/25/2014 12:34pm
Honestly, I think you're mixing a couple different topics here. I think the use of IVs for rehydration and drug use are two completely different things.

I also think the idea of asking riders to not go into motorhomes or team rigs to rest or cool down is a bit over the top.
5/25/2014 12:51pm
Where do the riders get all the medical supplies that they would need to participate in this underground rehydration ring?
Seriously? You can buy them online or get them from any EMT or Fireman. It's all available on AMAZON as well. I'm sure they have a...
Seriously? You can buy them online or get them from any EMT or Fireman. It's all available on AMAZON as well. I'm sure they have a Dr.

Doug Henry's wife used to give them to him in the box van.
Drinking a liter of fluid and eating some fruit would have a better affect than getting a liter of fluid through an iv. If the racers did it then it would be pretty easy to see all the track marks from getting fluids each weekend.
5/25/2014 12:52pm
GuyB wrote:
Honestly, I think you're mixing a couple different topics here. I think the use of IVs for rehydration and drug use are two completely different things...
Honestly, I think you're mixing a couple different topics here. I think the use of IVs for rehydration and drug use are two completely different things.

I also think the idea of asking riders to not go into motorhomes or team rigs to rest or cool down is a bit over the top.
Just because it hasn't always been done that way doesn't make it over the top. There could easily be a rider's lounge or somewhere for them to cool down as a group or you could give a designated person complete access to the motorhomes.

I'm not trying to mix two issues. What I am saying is that I believe more IV use is going on than drug use. We are going after the drugs and not the IV's.

I don't think it's fair that the top guys go hide in their trackside motomansions getting an IV while the privateers bake in the heat trying to drink whatever they can to hydrate.

What is your suggestion? You attend more nationals than most. What do you think would level the playing field more for the privateers?
EddieC
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5/25/2014 12:59pm
GuyB wrote:
So how do they do that? Assign a big brother monitor to every rider at every race? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just trying...
So how do they do that? Assign a big brother monitor to every rider at every race?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just trying to figure out how you think the logistics of that would work.
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is...
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is set up everything is right there and out in the open. Fans would notice an IV so Big Brother as you put it is kind of built in. It also gives the fan more access to the top guys. They all go hide every chance they get. A large air conditioned tent would work as well.

There would have to be something done for the restrooms as well.
How many times do I have to tell people that IV's in-between motos does not allow faster recovery. Here is a study to back what I have been saying.
http://advance.uconn.edu/1998/980323/03239806.htm

To take this a step further because this earlier study stated that a 3% decline in bodyweight would effect performance. New studies have shown that well trained athletes can have as mush as a 4% decline in bodyweight and still perform.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/01/dangerous-exercise-the-hype-of-dehydration-heat-stroke/

I will tell you what the problem is and this goes for just about everything involving a riders fitness and wellbeing.
1. Riders
a. The mentality that they are willing to do anything to better themselves
b. Extremely gullible, naive, easily influenced
c. Uneducated or unwilling to educate themselves in all matters of issues revolving their health.
1) Choosing to work with people who TELL the rider what the rider WANTS to HEAR and not what the rider NEEDS to HEAR

2. Unethical, Mis-informed, Non- certified/licensed "Trainers" "healthcare professionals" and snake oil salesmen
a. These individuals understand the psyche of the aforementioned riders and manipulate and take advantage of them

Three examples of stories I have heard from top 10 national riders who have fallen prey to these slime bags.

Athlete sees a chiropractor in the Carolinas for an ankle injury. He is made to put his ankle in a foot bath with a device that is inserted in the water to pull the swelling out of the ankle and into the water. The water turns brown and the athlete is told its his blood. WTF!!!

Athletes parents tell me they they have been wrapping their sons calf with a concoction of honey, bees wax and corn husks that was guaranteed to decrease swelling in two days by a homeopathic "doctor".

A rider who suffered a really bad ankle fracture was told by his chiropractor to remove the cast and begin walking on the ankle as putting pressure would increase bone grow. Was told he could ride in three weeks. This rider is no longer able to walk let alone race a dirt bike.
Outsider
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5/25/2014 1:00pm
Drinking a liter of fluid and eating some fruit would have a better affect than getting a liter of fluid through an iv. If the racers...
Drinking a liter of fluid and eating some fruit would have a better affect than getting a liter of fluid through an iv. If the racers did it then it would be pretty easy to see all the track marks from getting fluids each weekend.
Exactly... IV's leave holes.. and walking around with your shirt off it would be obvious. Anyone that's been in the hospital knows this, and that 99.9% of this board I would think.
5/25/2014 1:06pm
Outsider wrote:
Exactly... IV's leave holes.. and walking around with your shirt off it would be obvious. Anyone that's been in the hospital knows this, and that 99.9%...
Exactly... IV's leave holes.. and walking around with your shirt off it would be obvious. Anyone that's been in the hospital knows this, and that 99.9% of this board I would think.
I've had an IV after a long hard moto in the heat and went from feeling like death to feeling like riding another 4 moto's.

I never got that from a bottle of water and an apple.
5/25/2014 1:10pm
EddieC wrote:
How many times do I have to tell people that IV's in-between motos [b]does not[/b] allow faster recovery. Here is a study to back what I...
How many times do I have to tell people that IV's in-between motos does not allow faster recovery. Here is a study to back what I have been saying.
http://advance.uconn.edu/1998/980323/03239806.htm

To take this a step further because this earlier study stated that a 3% decline in bodyweight would effect performance. New studies have shown that well trained athletes can have as mush as a 4% decline in bodyweight and still perform.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/01/dangerous-exercise-the-hype-of-dehydration-heat-stroke/

I will tell you what the problem is and this goes for just about everything involving a riders fitness and wellbeing.
1. Riders
a. The mentality that they are willing to do anything to better themselves
b. Extremely gullible, naive, easily influenced
c. Uneducated or unwilling to educate themselves in all matters of issues revolving their health.
1) Choosing to work with people who TELL the rider what the rider WANTS to HEAR and not what the rider NEEDS to HEAR

2. Unethical, Mis-informed, Non- certified/licensed "Trainers" "healthcare professionals" and snake oil salesmen
a. These individuals understand the psyche of the aforementioned riders and manipulate and take advantage of them

Three examples of stories I have heard from top 10 national riders who have fallen prey to these slime bags.

Athlete sees a chiropractor in the Carolinas for an ankle injury. He is made to put his ankle in a foot bath with a device that is inserted in the water to pull the swelling out of the ankle and into the water. The water turns brown and the athlete is told its his blood. WTF!!!

Athletes parents tell me they they have been wrapping their sons calf with a concoction of honey, bees wax and corn husks that was guaranteed to decrease swelling in two days by a homeopathic "doctor".

A rider who suffered a really bad ankle fracture was told by his chiropractor to remove the cast and begin walking on the ankle as putting pressure would increase bone grow. Was told he could ride in three weeks. This rider is no longer able to walk let alone race a dirt bike.
unreal stories man. WOW! what people will do.

I disagree with you on the IV. I've had one and I've seen others get them. You go from feeling like total crap to feeling good again in short order. My mom is a nurse and on more than one occasion she or trackside EMT's have given IV's to riders. I don't know that any returned to competition that day so I don't think any rules were broken.
5/25/2014 1:16pm
I've had an IV after a long hard moto in the heat and went from feeling like death to feeling like riding another 4 moto's. I...
I've had an IV after a long hard moto in the heat and went from feeling like death to feeling like riding another 4 moto's.

I never got that from a bottle of water and an apple.
If the pros do everything they can to prepare then they avoid feeling like crap after the first moto. Yes it will make you feel a hundred times better if you are already dehydrated but something tells me they know how to preparate enough to not get to that point.
5/25/2014 1:27pm
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is...
it's super easy they are not allowed to go hide in their mototrhomes. If you look at the way a team gus or privateer pit is set up everything is right there and out in the open. Fans would notice an IV so Big Brother as you put it is kind of built in. It also gives the fan more access to the top guys. They all go hide every chance they get. A large air conditioned tent would work as well.

There would have to be something done for the restrooms as well.
GuyB wrote:
This sounds like it's more for your benefit than the riders. Smile
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a chance to reflect / strategize, get redressed and focused on their moto. I imagine that would be pretty difficult for fan favorites, they would be distracted the entire time.
5/25/2014 1:59pm
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a...
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a chance to reflect / strategize, get redressed and focused on their moto. I imagine that would be pretty difficult for fan favorites, they would be distracted the entire time.
Why do they need a motorhome to do that? The privateers don't have one.

They have no trouble ignoring fans. Have you been to the races? Stewarts camp has some sort of blind set up so the fans can't see the door of the trailer. Very top secret yet every time I hear James interviewed he's always saying how approachable he is. People can just come up to him etc yet no one can.

I'm not insinuating that James is up to no good. I am simply saying he seems to like his privacy.
GuyB
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5/25/2014 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 5/25/2014 2:23pm
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a...
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a chance to reflect / strategize, get redressed and focused on their moto. I imagine that would be pretty difficult for fan favorites, they would be distracted the entire time.
Why do they need a motorhome to do that? The privateers don't have one. They have no trouble ignoring fans. Have you been to the races...
Why do they need a motorhome to do that? The privateers don't have one.

They have no trouble ignoring fans. Have you been to the races? Stewarts camp has some sort of blind set up so the fans can't see the door of the trailer. Very top secret yet every time I hear James interviewed he's always saying how approachable he is. People can just come up to him etc yet no one can.

I'm not insinuating that James is up to no good. I am simply saying he seems to like his privacy.
This is the top level of dirt bike racing. It's not a Stewart thing. I think you'd find the setting similar in other top level motorsports... Or the KTM pit area.

Fans are relentless. I've been in pit areas where they'll repeatedly shout the rider's name over and over. It doesn't matter whether there in a conversation with their crew, or anyone else. They just want to be acknowledged... Or an autograph... Or a jersey... Or some goggles...
5/25/2014 3:32pm
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a...
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a chance to reflect / strategize, get redressed and focused on their moto. I imagine that would be pretty difficult for fan favorites, they would be distracted the entire time.
Why do they need a motorhome to do that? The privateers don't have one. They have no trouble ignoring fans. Have you been to the races...
Why do they need a motorhome to do that? The privateers don't have one.

They have no trouble ignoring fans. Have you been to the races? Stewarts camp has some sort of blind set up so the fans can't see the door of the trailer. Very top secret yet every time I hear James interviewed he's always saying how approachable he is. People can just come up to him etc yet no one can.

I'm not insinuating that James is up to no good. I am simply saying he seems to like his privacy.
GuyB wrote:
This is the top level of dirt bike racing. It's not a Stewart thing. I think you'd find the setting similar in other top level motorsports...
This is the top level of dirt bike racing. It's not a Stewart thing. I think you'd find the setting similar in other top level motorsports... Or the KTM pit area.

Fans are relentless. I've been in pit areas where they'll repeatedly shout the rider's name over and over. It doesn't matter whether there in a conversation with their crew, or anyone else. They just want to be acknowledged... Or an autograph... Or a jersey... Or some goggles...
Then don't go on Pulpmx and other places talking about how approachable you are.

Anyway we are getting off topic. There was very little chatter this weekend about the testing I was mainly just curious how the testing went.
flarider
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5/25/2014 4:47pm
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a...
With not much time between sessions on the track, I wouldn't call it hiding. They need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a chance to reflect / strategize, get redressed and focused on their moto. I imagine that would be pretty difficult for fan favorites, they would be distracted the entire time.
PEDs or IV's aside, don't you think that alone is an issue and an unfair advantage the "haves" have over the "have nots?"

Don't the "non-elite" racers also need time between sessions on the track? Don't they need every minute to get undressed, cooled down, rehydrated and a chance to reflect / strategize, get redressed and focused on their moto without having people asking them for autographs, jerseys or goggles?
Big Lenny
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5/25/2014 5:30pm
http://romanoroberts.com.mx/steroids-crossfit-and-the-crossfit-games-wh…

The Test

Until this year, The Crossfit Games have employed a very porous testing protocol. There was no off-season drug testing and no random tests. What this meant, in practical terms, was that you could use anything that didn’t have long lasting metabolites, virtually year-round: testosterone injections, hGH, and whatever pills you could get your hands on – oxandrolone/anavar, fluoxymesterone/halotestin, Oral-Turinabol (the stuff the East Germans used), etc…anything. If you’re familiar with all-star baseball player Alex Rodriguez, who’s been caught more than once using performance enhancing drugs, and his latest suspension (remember, he didn’t test positive, he got dimed out), you know that one can still compete in virtually any sport and be using his stack (and still test clean):

Beating the Drug Test part II

Anabolics represent 1/9 categories on the official WADA list - the various hGH and IGF related peptides, like the highly potent ones listed above, are not in that category. Neither are masking agents. Hence, Drug Free Sport doesn’t test for masking agents or peptides. Plus, you get a minimum of several hours of warning before you’re expected to piss in a cup (more than enough time for a masking agent, etc…). And they don’t test for anything outside the actual list of anabolics. So right here, we’ve given you the formula to beat them- either use a masking agent to hide whatever steroids you feel like using, or stick to peptides, or anabolic steroids that aren’t on the list (or share metabolites with those which are) – and of course stuff like fast acting testosterone, which they’re not going to be able to detect at all, nor has anyone, ever, been able to.
As for offseason testing, all you need to do is say, right after the ‘Games are finished “I’m not competing this coming year” then say “I changed my mind” and register at the last minute – that gets your name out of the random pool and gets you a minimum of half a year to juice your brains out. Hypothetically.

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