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Which is why i dont understand how changing the displacement rule at the pro level is supposed to make 2 stroke sales increase. Especially when the majority of bikes are never raced, let alone at the pro level.
Nobody is pushing $7000 bikes on anyone. If you want a more entry level price then go ahead and by the 10 year old $2000 YZ125 and have fun. If you want to spend $15000 then go buy the CRF Works Edition and have at it. It's not that hard.
The Shop
And this generation of kids who grew up riding thumpers are going to be just as curious about the new RM350 two stroke as we all were with the YZ400F. You'll see people want to buy them but it has to be pushed and promoted the same way the four strokes were.
And it'll be painful to hear the comment, "Well no duh the RM350 is faster and better than the RMZ450. First Suzuki stopped improving their tired 450 motor, second the RM350 is brand new and a more efficient motor."
No you would not. This is a fantasy
Really if you can do a 2 stroke top end, you can do a 4 stroke top end. IMO it doesnt take any more or less skill to do it.
Yes when you need new valve seats its expensive. But you dont even do it that often. My kawis just got new heads and valves for the first time since 2009 when they came out. Big whoop.
Nobody is pushing brand new bikes on people. The notion you HAVE to buy a new bike is so dumb. You can buy used 4 stroke, fix it, rebuild the top end - whatever, and still come out ahead from buying new and youll still have a nice bike.
I don't expect a rule change or OEM's to care about 2 strokes any time soon, but it wasn't that long ago when it was a bigger fantasy to create a four stroke that was light enough and powerful enough to compete with the 2 strokes.
Just compare the common mistakes between the two and you'll find threads that don't exist with 2 strokes
I've rebuilt 2 4 strokes in the last couple months
07 CRF250X and an 09 yz450f
Both were blown up and they were fairly simple to rebuild. I bought them fairly cheap and get parts at cost so the investment was fairly low. Alot of labor but I enjoy doing it and it saves a ton of money. Someone with a little drive and a service manual, proper tools can save alot of coin!!
I just don't see the bright side for the manufacturers to do it when the off road segment is really the only market that could potentially benefit from 2 stroke development at this stage.
If all of this were to occur again (which I don't really expect), only this time it would be the two stroke being promoted, it wouldn't take years to persuade people to switch bikes. I would fully expect for consumers to buy them too - even if they have no business owning one or no real need. Hell I had a friend who was perfectly happy with a 96 CR125 and got into a brand new 2007 YZ250F. He didn't like it as well, but this kinda thing happens all the time. I'm confident plenty more folks who like their 250F or 450F would do the same thing with a new two stroke. Especially if the four stroke offerings were getting the "bold new graphics" treatment for several years in a row, while the new bits end up on the two strokes.
Are they going to sell more bikes? Is a more highly developed 2 stroke going to be cheaper? Is it even going to be a guaranteed better platform for winning races then the current bikes? None of those are guarantees in my mind. Yamaha was the only manufacturer originally who took advantage of a rule that was already in existence. Once the others saw it was a better bike thats when they jumped on.
Pit Row
Besides there were no guarantees when Yamaha did this 20 years ago. Had those engines not been as mechanically reliable as they were it could have ended up a total fiasco. As is a lot of racers lost due to inability to refire their bikes.
A top end on a 2 stroke is a piston and rings, pin and bearing at 30hrs.
On a 4 stroke at 6hrs you might add in a valve seat at 60hrs but you’ve probably saved that amount in the better fuel consumption and not having to buy a bottle of oil every 30 litres of fuel.
Ktm raced a 550 or 570 fourstroke before the yzf400, so I guess the full change was to lower the capacity. Although I’m not sure about the 125 class?
What happened was Yamaha realised they could make a better mousetrap. They realised they could make more tractable power in a more rideable package that the inexperience consumer would enjoy riding more. Which I’m guessing is the case. And they sold in droves and the rest of the manufacturers followed suit and the sport thrived. Was this because of the energizing factor of a totally different machine? Or was the machine of RC and the antics of JS259 the catalyst for this explosion? Maybe it was all TP199 but who knows. But the explosion of the industry correlated to the introduction of the 4 stroke.
Then the FC happened. Motocross racing at the local level has never recovered. But I would think that the best judge of whether it has anything to do with four strokes is in the junior classes. Are 50,65 and 85 classes booming and then a massive drop off to 250f? Or are the smaller 2 stroke juniors struggling for numbers as well?
Why is off road booming? My guess is the older demographic - the boomers of you will. This correlates to two stroke love especially when they are mostly buying Ktm exc two strokes which cost as much as four strokes so it’s not the price....
It’s just slightly more complicated than ‘4 stroke bad’. But if the data does bore it out then I am happy to agree with you but you definitely don’t seem to be considering all the options.
BMX was also booming in the 90s and isn’t nearly as big anymore. Skateboarding was also a cultural phenomenon then and it’s practically dead with the youth... roller blading? None of these died because of cost, maybe they died because they didn’t evolve. To me downhill mtb racing seems to scratch a similar itch to BMX and the bikes are more expensive than dirt bikes and that sport booooominggg. So maybe evolution and technological advancement is important to growing the sport?
Post a reply to: Twisted Development, $7000-dollar question, can you afford it??