Twisted Development, $7000-dollar question, can you afford it??

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12/2/2019 6:19 PM

What is the $7,000 Question?

80% of the MX Riders, either for fun or Racing today, are waisting there Money!

https://motocrossactionmag.com/two-vs-four-shootout-yz250-two-stroke-vs-yz250f-four-stroke/

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SDT-YZ ESR 325

Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)

12/2/2019 6:20 PM

*their

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12/2/2019 6:22 PM

*wasting

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12/2/2019 6:48 PM

Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money...

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2011 Yamaha YZ 250 -MX
1996 Yamaha Banshee 350 -Trails
1982 Chevy S10
2005 Pontiac GTO -451rwhp

12/2/2019 6:55 PM

Homonyms hurt...right that down.

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12/2/2019 7:06 PM

eric513anderson wrote:

Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money...

Very Cool!
If you have it and want to spend it no worries! But for the guys who cannot afford both or 1 expensive 4-T, the Fun can be had with the YZ 250, right?

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SDT-YZ ESR 325

Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)

12/2/2019 7:14 PM

If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.

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SDT-YZ ESR 325

Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)

12/2/2019 7:21 PM

SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:

If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.

Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.

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12/2/2019 8:17 PM

The ballbreaker is back!!!

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12/2/2019 8:55 PM

I have a yz450f and yz250 and they are both great fun to ride. The 4 stroke engine though is a superior technology, especially when you throw in fuel injection and electric start. I do prefer the weight of the 250 and do enjoy the punch of the 2 stroke but the 450 is much easier to ride consistently.

I can see the point though that you dont need to spend the money for a 4 stroke to have a fun dirt bike. If I were ever to downsize to one bike I would be fine keeping just the 250. The current generation of 450s though are incredible machines and I dont think it is a waste of money to spend more vs the 2stroke.

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12/2/2019 9:04 PM

People like the punchy Braap Braap power of a two stroke and the linearity of a 4 stroke.

What I find interesting is when engine builders try and push them closer to a each other.

Make a 4 stroke a torque low revving monster with no overrev and difficulty keeping traction and people instantly want to smooth the power out or make it rev linearly to the moon.

Make a 2 stroke linear like a KTM 300 exc and people want to push it back towards the 2 stroke style of power. TPI smooths out the power but nobody wants that.

It's really strange how different that is.

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12/2/2019 10:16 PM

Good read. Rather they compared a KTM or Husqvarna 250 two stroke vs 250 four stroke though, as the 'antiquated YZ250 frame/ergos/handling' references wore thin.

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12/2/2019 10:23 PM

SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:

If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.

500guy wrote:

Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.

And when you take off your spectator hat and throw on your helmet, that doesn't really ease the pain.

We are a participatory sport, not a spectator sport.

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12/2/2019 10:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/2/2019 10:30 PM

I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests.

I also can’t believe people like our boy SDTony take the time to market a product that he supposedly doesn’t make any money from. I can’t believe he’s not the super hero Eddie Sanders himself.

All of these things are puzzling.

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12/2/2019 10:30 PM

This test was so close to being worth while but they totally blew it.

They spent how many 1000s getting the 250f to 49hp, dual injectors throttle body, ecu, cams, etc etc etc

And with the 2 stroke they didnt even scratch the surface.

Everyone knows the 4 strokes more broad, more linear, more tractable...so 49hp vs 49hp isnt a fair fight. The 2 stroke needed to be tuned to mid 50s+ to atleast fight against the f's power delivery advantage. Which still could have been done for far less than the f's build cost.

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12/3/2019 1:06 AM

Kyle978 wrote:

I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests.

I also can’t believe people like our boy SDTony take the time to market a product that he supposedly doesn’t make any money from. I can’t believe he’s not the super hero Eddie Sanders himself.

All of these things are puzzling.

That test was done decade ago.

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12/3/2019 2:20 AM

49hp on a yz250 sounded like a mild tuning.
If your doing a financial cost shootout i get why, but not as competitive weapon shootout

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12/3/2019 3:01 AM

500guy wrote:

Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.

I had that hat sewn to my scalp.

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12/3/2019 3:11 AM

Not this shit again...

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I miss

12/3/2019 3:25 AM

SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:

If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.

500guy wrote:

Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.

And yet with no hat on you could argue that 2 strokes were less forgiving and 4 strokes have evened out skill levels.

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12/3/2019 4:52 AM

SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:

If the powers-that-be in Pro racing were smart enough to allow equal displacement rules so that 250 two-strokes could race against 250 four-strokes, racers would have the choice between hideously expensive or affordable machinery. But nobody at the alphabet organizations wants that.

500guy wrote:

Yet if you look at it without your 2 stroke Taliban hat on, The non Factory riders are much more competitive now than they were when the Factories were building exotic 2 strokes.

CPR wrote:

And yet with no hat on you could argue that 2 strokes were less forgiving and 4 strokes have evened out skill levels.

That is an excellent point.

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12/3/2019 5:13 AM

To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes.

I love two strokes as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see the lap comparisons and the consistency of the 250F versus the two stroke. I think a 49 HP 250F sounds like the perfect motorcycle.

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12/3/2019 5:21 AM

Kyle978 wrote:

I can’t believe companies like Twisted and Enzo still waste their time doing stuff for MXA’s pointless tests.

I also can’t believe people like our boy SDTony take the time to market a product that he supposedly doesn’t make any money from. I can’t believe he’s not the super hero Eddie Sanders himself.

All of these things are puzzling.

Twisted and Enzo know more than you.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

12/3/2019 5:30 AM

mark_swart wrote:

To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes.

I love two strokes as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see the lap comparisons and the consistency of the 250F versus the two stroke. I think a 49 HP 250F sounds like the perfect motorcycle.

I would suggest a 350 then. Modded 250Fs are cool but with that comes more money and maintenance. I've been down that road and it's not worth it for me anymore.

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12/3/2019 6:06 AM

mark_swart wrote:

To be totally fair, 50% of riders are probably wasting their money trying to get more power out of either of those bikes.

I love two strokes as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see the lap comparisons and the consistency of the 250F versus the two stroke. I think a 49 HP 250F sounds like the perfect motorcycle.

AH387 wrote:

I would suggest a 350 then. Modded 250Fs are cool but with that comes more money and maintenance. I've been down that road and it's not worth it for me anymore.

Haha yes I would love one - but I want it in red or blue haha!! I'm on a 250F now and definitely agree with the mods and reliability, mine is pretty much stock.

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12/3/2019 6:13 AM

mark_swart wrote:

Haha yes I would love one - but I want it in red or blue haha!! I'm on a 250F now and definitely agree with the mods and reliability, mine is pretty much stock.

Lol I hear you.

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12/3/2019 6:18 AM

Excellent read MXA...
"This shootout is not a tie; it’s just not cut-and-dry. If every motocross racer had a 250 two-stroke option that was status-backed, not sneered at, our sport would be healthier. More people could afford to ride, and those who are riding now could afford to fix an engine failure for one-quarter the cost of fixing a money-sucking four-banger. But, you can’t take status, image and self-worth out of the racing formula. Thus, the 250 four-stroke is the perfect machine for riders who are less willing to risk their ego on an unpopular choice. The tie can’t be broken by the MXA wrecking crew—only by the face in the mirror, money in the bank and need for acceptance."

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12/3/2019 6:47 AM

I finally got on a 4 stroke in 05 and have only had to do valves once since then. Never replaced a cam or cylinder. I'm also a 200 lb expert so I'm not easy on equipment. I know people have random engine failures (mostly KTM from what I've seen), but how many of you that know how to maintain your 4 stroke actually have to do these costly rebuilds that I'm always reading about?

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12/3/2019 7:55 AM

eric513anderson wrote:

Shoot, I’ve wasted a lot of money...

hey eric, what clamps are on that yz250? how do you like them?

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Not much to say to Vitards.

12/3/2019 8:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/3/2019 9:05 AM

..... Modern four strokes are way more reliable than 2 strokes ever were.
.... Since Yamaha has the best bikes right out of the crate..... this should have been a stock vs stock comparison. Sometimes modifying your bike messes up the easy to use characteristics, and jetting can become a daily nightmare(2t jetting only). I have had a subscription to MXA for 30 years and realized that they should have been called PMXA (Pro Motocross Action). Most of the bike builds are unrealistic to the average and way above average consumer.
Look at the stock class a Loretta’s this year. The last place slow as shit Suzuk RMZ250 took the checkers. Damn!!!

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