Tusk Wheels - Issues?

IceMan446
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IceMan446 12/29/2015 8:45pm
12/29/2015 8:45pm
Blue loctite and torque them, check before every ride.
Mx Hazzard 12/29/2015 10:05pm
12/29/2015 10:05pm
" The rear sprocket was installed with a new bolt kit (2 different brands on the 2 different rear wheels)"

Were the bolt kits made for sprockets and have the same taper as the sprocket?
Bolts have different grades and a low grade bolt just stretches the more it is torqued, and will break easier.
If the taper of the bolt doesn't fit the taper of the sprocket there will be less surface area to hold it tight, which was already mentioned. I like the lapping idea too.

Were the bolts tightened in increments in a star pattern?
As in get all the bolts snug in a star pattern, then torque to half spec in a star pattern, then final torque in a star pattern then check each one after they are all tight.

Any crows foot, wobble, or extension will effect a torque reading.

Sorry you have had two failures. With Tusk being a cheaper brand I'm guessing there are a lot of them out there, I would think that if it is this big of a problem it would be more well known. Good luck.
VRR7
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VRR7 12/29/2015 10:23pm
12/29/2015 10:23pm
fulltime wrench wrote:
Sometimes the taper of the sprocket bolt heads and sprocket are mismatched. This leads to the sprocket "walking" causing the bolts to come loose quicker than...
Sometimes the taper of the sprocket bolt heads and sprocket are mismatched. This leads to the sprocket "walking" causing the bolts to come loose quicker than normal. A friend/mentor and former Yamaha tech pointed this out to me some years ago. He told me he has even used blue layout fluid to verify the bolt was seated fully into the sprocket. If it wasn't he would use different bolts or sprocket and sometimes both. On occasion he would lap the bolt to the sprocket with lapping compound to achieve a perfect fit. He would do this with his personal road racing bikes.

Also, it is possible for the sprocket bolt holes in the hub to be slightly oversized. This would allow the same "walking" of the sprocket. The bolts are shouldered to align the sprocket to the hub. If the tolerance is too wide, a problem could be rooted here.

I agree with using a sprocket that has a fully connected bolt holes. Much stronger design. This is very important especially for a 450 ridden by an aggressive rider who lands jumps throttle on.

And finally, not saying the installer did or did not, the nut should always be tightened holding the bolt stationary rather than the bolt tightened holding the nut.
This has to be "walking" sprocket bolts as they where locked and had lock nut the flex and play on the sprocket must be providing enough torque to loosen them completely to this end. Lock nuts with loctite do not just come lose easily unless forced in some manner.

Where where the bolts loctite'd ? I always use loctite on the taper part of sprocket bolts and leave the self locking nut to lock the threaded part. Never had a lose sprocket bolt ever until sprocket change. I have never used sprockets designed wide open on bolts either.

This problem is the bolts came out and broke - So the fault is not the hubs - It would not have broken had the bolts been correct torque - Why did the bolts come lose is the real question / solution.

I have seen KTM OEM rear hubs break on the PDS setup when the chain was to tight. This does not look like the case here.

You probably find that you can bolt a solid Sprocket onto that 1 tab broken hub properly as a test the hub proof and it would probably still work ?

The Shop

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/29/2015 11:21pm
12/29/2015 11:21pm
kijen wrote:
Love the get what you pay for replies, no one really knows what failed or why, so let's just shoot from the hip and sound smart...
Love the get what you pay for replies, no one really knows what failed or why, so let's just shoot from the hip and sound smart, let's go back to the cracked yzf frames, and the always popular don't wash your yzf on race day, guess spending 8k on a bike you get what you pay forSmile , almost forgot a few pros breaking chains, when a name brand part fails, you will get the, shit happens reponse. Glad yourbud did not get hurt.
Hey, Einstein...

I could be referring to BUYING Fresh Sprocket Bolts...or Lock Nuts...@ the very least...

WHENEVER you change a rear sprocket...etc.
PTshox
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PTshox 12/30/2015 12:29am
12/30/2015 12:29am
I have a set of Tusk wheels... zero issues thus far. Great value in my opinion...

BTW... if one bolt fails that sprocket would still be on the hub... but it's not. Looks like several bolts failed to make that happen. Seems like someone didn't tighten them or check them frequently. If it was a hub issue you'd see lots of these failures.
tsmith412
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tsmith412 12/30/2015 12:39am
12/30/2015 12:39am
Justin345 wrote:
I wanted to post this up for a buddy of mine that has had a set of Tusk wheel/hubs on his RMZ450 for about a year...
I wanted to post this up for a buddy of mine that has had a set of Tusk wheel/hubs on his RMZ450 for about a year. After reading a few magazine reviews that said they were solid wheels, especially for the price, he decided to give it a try. The wheels really do look amazing and the price is less than half what I paid for the DID/kite set from Dubya I have on my bike. The tusk wheels were a great value, or so it seemed.

Flash forward 1 year and 2 exploded rear hubs later, that opinion may have changed on the perceived good value of the wheels. Thankfully, both times it has happened hasn't been on the face of a large jump so it didn't kill him. But it did destroy his chain, chain slider, chain guide, sprocket and rear wheel both times. The issue was for whatever reason, the rear sprocket would come loose within an hour or 2 every time he rode the bike. The rear sprocket was installed with a new bolt kit (2 different brands on the 2 different rear wheels), which includes the locking type nuts and were torqued to spec. After the first hub failed, he assumed it was a fluke and got another tusk rear wheel. This time, the rear sprocket was installed again with new bolts/locking nuts, torqued to spec AND used loctite. A few months later, same thing happened. He would check the rear sprocket bolts before he rode. The sprocket loosens while being ridden and breaks the tabs off the hub...catastrophic failure follows..

I've never had a bolt on my rear sprocket come loose on any set of wheel I've had. It's hard to believe it's a fluke that this same thing happened 2x and must lend itself to some sort of manufacturing defect or tolerance issue.

Has anybody else had issues with tusk wheels?

First wheel:







Second wheel:





I would say it's bad material my opinion but like the guys style with the tm designs chain guide and vortex sprocket
HenryA
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HenryA 12/30/2015 12:40am
12/30/2015 12:40am
I went the Excel A60/Talon route, never looked back. Cheap wheels is like riding with a 50$ helmet.
VRR7
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VRR7 12/30/2015 2:47am
12/30/2015 2:47am


Oscillation marks that overcame the locks to make the bolts "walk" out !
1
wideopen198 12/30/2015 3:21am
12/30/2015 3:21am
Maybe the tolerance on the hole of the hub is wrong. That could cause the bolt to move in the hole and eventually loosen the nut or break the hub.
sgrimmxdad
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sgrimmxdad 12/30/2015 4:16am
12/30/2015 4:16am
Bolts walked out! Some parts just do not match up well together.

We had a yz125 stock wheel kept doing the same thing. 30 mins on the track they would all be loose no matter how much lock tite I put on them! I tried different bolts and sprockets for 6mnths. Finally with the twin ring and good bolts, TAG I think it was and no more problems. As a result I at least finger check the bolts every ride. Put new DID's with RAD hubs on the bike and never had the issue with them either.

Right now I am keeping up 6 bikes, going to be ordering wheels for 4 of them. Going with Collin at Faster this time. My son races so as long as I can afford it he will be on quality wheels. Like someone said earlier it's like buying a cheap helmet...

I would buy a set to put on my bike, as I just roll everything and basically trail ride lol! Wouldn't want to chance it for my boy doing 70+ foot jumps!!
22Ryann
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22Ryann 12/30/2015 4:41am
12/30/2015 4:41am Edited Date/Time 12/30/2015 5:03am
VRR7 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/12/30/117349/s1200_hub.jpg[/img] Oscillation marks that overcame the locks to make the bolts "walk" out !


Oscillation marks that overcame the locks to make the bolts "walk" out !
Also see the knurled over metal on that seating lip. Only way the sprocket would get there is if the bolt was loose, and with that design sprocket makes sense the way the metal is chewed.
mxdude105
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mxdude105 12/30/2015 5:39am
12/30/2015 5:39am
Another vote for those sprockets being iffy. My buddy blew out his wheel a few summers back. Same sprocket, stock hub and rim. Riding on flat ground and snapped the throttle hard and it grenaded. I agree with the others who have said this bike looks slightly neglected. Keep the bolts tight, check them every ride and avoid that style of sprocket. Should be fine. I've heard nothing but good things about Tusk and in my experience their other products are a good value.
scagle3
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scagle3 12/30/2015 6:02am
12/30/2015 6:02am
mxdude105 wrote:
Another vote for those sprockets being iffy. My buddy blew out his wheel a few summers back. Same sprocket, stock hub and rim. Riding on flat...
Another vote for those sprockets being iffy. My buddy blew out his wheel a few summers back. Same sprocket, stock hub and rim. Riding on flat ground and snapped the throttle hard and it grenaded. I agree with the others who have said this bike looks slightly neglected. Keep the bolts tight, check them every ride and avoid that style of sprocket. Should be fine. I've heard nothing but good things about Tusk and in my experience their other products are a good value.
You literally think this bike is neglected? What reason brings you to that conclusion? Because either a sprocket gave out, or bolts broke, or the hub failed? I will be glad to put my bike beside anyone's and see which is more neglected. Go back and look at the pictures posted above with the Flo yellow. That was two rides ago before the second failure.
Ghostrider145 12/30/2015 6:28am
12/30/2015 6:28am
Some good responses here. Hard to say...
I'm more of a Faster USA guy myself.
100% made in America with American materials. Oh and Collin is a great guy.

Ghost
sgrimmxdad
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sgrimmxdad 12/30/2015 6:29am
12/30/2015 6:29am
It appears in the first set of pics that the front sprocket looks a lot older than the rear. The damage, from the pics, doesn't appear to all from the failure...
Dan-The-Man 12/30/2015 6:33am
12/30/2015 6:33am
kijen wrote:
Love the get what you pay for replies, no one really knows what failed or why, so let's just shoot from the hip and sound smart...
Love the get what you pay for replies, no one really knows what failed or why, so let's just shoot from the hip and sound smart, let's go back to the cracked yzf frames, and the always popular don't wash your yzf on race day, guess spending 8k on a bike you get what you pay forSmile , almost forgot a few pros breaking chains, when a name brand part fails, you will get the, shit happens reponse. Glad yourbud did not get hurt.
TeamGreen wrote:
Hey, Einstein...

I could be referring to BUYING Fresh Sprocket Bolts...or Lock Nuts...@ the very least...

WHENEVER you change a rear sprocket...etc.
He made a valid point.
scagle3
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scagle3 12/30/2015 6:35am
12/30/2015 6:35am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
It appears in the first set of pics that the front sprocket looks a lot older than the rear. The damage, from the pics, doesn't appear...
It appears in the first set of pics that the front sprocket looks a lot older than the rear. The damage, from the pics, doesn't appear to all from the failure...
They are always put on at the same time and changed at the same time. It's missing teeth from the chain wrapping around it.

Pit Row

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Beast666
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Beast666 12/30/2015 6:40am
12/30/2015 6:40am
scagle3 wrote:
You literally think this bike is neglected? What reason brings you to that conclusion? Because either a sprocket gave out, or bolts broke, or the hub...
You literally think this bike is neglected? What reason brings you to that conclusion? Because either a sprocket gave out, or bolts broke, or the hub failed? I will be glad to put my bike beside anyone's and see which is more neglected. Go back and look at the pictures posted above with the Flo yellow. That was two rides ago before the second failure.
Just one look at the countershaft sprocket wear or the flattening of the inner plates on the chain at the roller says that the chain is not well maintained or inspected on a regular basis!!!!! On a 450F even with the chain slightly tight the engine torgue and suspension movement will stress everything attached to the chain.

A drive chain will be at its tightest when the countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle are in a straight line. If you were to check chain tension in this condition you should still have about 1/8" - 3/16" of play in the chain One other missed in alignment of the rear axle to the swingarm pivot. Most of the marks on the swingarm are nor equal on each side.. When I work on customers bikes chain free play and alignment is the most common issue i see.
Xeno
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Xeno 12/30/2015 7:05am
12/30/2015 7:05am
Let me be the forth or fifth person to point this out: The rear sprocket does not have a continuous ring around the bolt pattern. This is a likely contributor to failure.

I've built my share of rear wheels for the Baja 1000. I use fresh OE sprocket bolts without threadlocking compound. Why? The stock Fuji nuts are locking by design. I have seen the bolts stretch from over-thightening.

If you want to go the extra mile- and I've done this- use lapping compound to match the taper of the bolt head to the counterbore on the sprocket. This ensures full contact area on the taper.
Gebken40
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Gebken40 12/30/2015 7:13am
12/30/2015 7:13am Edited Date/Time 12/30/2015 7:13am
This isn't a wheel problem... it is a sprocket bolt problem.

I've had multiple sets of Tusk wheels for a 125, 250F, and my 450 and haven't had a single issue. mind you i always inspect them before every ride and before each time on the track.

I've destroyed more stock wheels and hubs than any after market brand due to hub, rim, or spoke failure and/or sprocket bolt failure. Many times aftermarket sprocket bolts are not sized properly for the hub and that can cause an issue with the bolts coming loose, shearing off, and coming apart.

More than likely it was a maintenance or fitment issue that caused this.
Gdavid
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Gdavid 12/30/2015 7:54am
12/30/2015 7:54am
There are too many holes in this story. First off this is not two sets on one bike but two bikes, a 250 and a 450 and it is very likely poor maintenance. The bolts clearly came out or they would be in the pictures somewhere. There is one left in the 450 but none in the 250. The case saver bolts are missing on the 250. They weren’t sheared off as there are no remains of the bolts in the holes in the case. If you don’t believe it is two bikes look at the swing arm decals in the before and after pictures. Parts don’t lie! Yeah I know I’m a dick but it is my job. I was a Forensics Warranty Engineer for one of the US car manufactures for six years and I did this every day. Yep, I’m as OCD as OCD gets!





MR. X
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MR. X 12/30/2015 7:57am
12/30/2015 7:57am
I can't honestly say what the problem was ,however people keep bringing up the hardware. Metric and English flat heads have a diffrent angle ,metrics are 90 and English are 82. Could it be lack of surface contact in the chamfer?
scagle3
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scagle3 12/30/2015 8:05am
12/30/2015 8:05am
Gdavid wrote:
There are too many holes in this story. First off this is not two sets on one bike but two bikes, a 250 and a 450...
There are too many holes in this story. First off this is not two sets on one bike but two bikes, a 250 and a 450 and it is very likely poor maintenance. The bolts clearly came out or they would be in the pictures somewhere. There is one left in the 450 but none in the 250. The case saver bolts are missing on the 250. They weren’t sheared off as there are no remains of the bolts in the holes in the case. If you don’t believe it is two bikes look at the swing arm decals in the before and after pictures. Parts don’t lie! Yeah I know I’m a dick but it is my job. I was a Forensics Warranty Engineer for one of the US car manufactures for six years and I did this every day. Yep, I’m as OCD as OCD gets!





You sir, are really bad at your job then. Actually horrible at it to conclude they are two different bikes based on decals. It's two different sets of graphics...hence two different swing arm decals you incompetent sod. And you're right, the bolts aren't in the case saver as we were trying to get the chain out from being wrapped around the front sprocket. We started that process prior to me taking the picture. That case saver is actually the exact same one thats on the bike the second time this happened, with the same bolts in it from the first time. And I'm glad it was, because it saved the case both times. Hopefully you have a new job.
mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 12/30/2015 8:11am
12/30/2015 8:11am
mxdude105 wrote:
Another vote for those sprockets being iffy. My buddy blew out his wheel a few summers back. Same sprocket, stock hub and rim. Riding on flat...
Another vote for those sprockets being iffy. My buddy blew out his wheel a few summers back. Same sprocket, stock hub and rim. Riding on flat ground and snapped the throttle hard and it grenaded. I agree with the others who have said this bike looks slightly neglected. Keep the bolts tight, check them every ride and avoid that style of sprocket. Should be fine. I've heard nothing but good things about Tusk and in my experience their other products are a good value.
scagle3 wrote:
You literally think this bike is neglected? What reason brings you to that conclusion? Because either a sprocket gave out, or bolts broke, or the hub...
You literally think this bike is neglected? What reason brings you to that conclusion? Because either a sprocket gave out, or bolts broke, or the hub failed? I will be glad to put my bike beside anyone's and see which is more neglected. Go back and look at the pictures posted above with the Flo yellow. That was two rides ago before the second failure.
Just because a bike looks clean doesn't mean it isn't thrashed. The pictures with the flo plastics the graphics and everything look great but I'm sure if most of us were able to see the bike in person there probably quite a few things that look worn out. I have an 05 kx250f in my garage that still has all the stock graphics and everything on it and looks great still but it's got over 200 hours on it and needs to be completely gone through and rebuilt. For the most part these guys are trying to help you by telling you what the issue is and you're getting butt hurt over the fact that people are pointing out some issues that can be fixed by you. I get that it would be easy to try and blame tusk because you get a full set of wheels for $550 but that's not your issue. Get yourself a renthal or supersprox sprocket, new sprocket bolts and another tusk wheel and I bet it doesn't happen again.

Oh and can you explain how a tooth on the front sprocket is missing on the opposite side of where the chain bound up? Sorry bud, that's not from the chain, that's from Lack Of Maintenance.
scagle3
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scagle3 12/30/2015 8:11am
12/30/2015 8:11am
Here the picture with the bolts in it ...

Josh422
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Josh422 12/30/2015 8:13am
12/30/2015 8:13am
Gdavid wrote:
There are too many holes in this story. First off this is not two sets on one bike but two bikes, a 250 and a 450...
There are too many holes in this story. First off this is not two sets on one bike but two bikes, a 250 and a 450 and it is very likely poor maintenance. The bolts clearly came out or they would be in the pictures somewhere. There is one left in the 450 but none in the 250. The case saver bolts are missing on the 250. They weren’t sheared off as there are no remains of the bolts in the holes in the case. If you don’t believe it is two bikes look at the swing arm decals in the before and after pictures. Parts don’t lie! Yeah I know I’m a dick but it is my job. I was a Forensics Warranty Engineer for one of the US car manufactures for six years and I did this every day. Yep, I’m as OCD as OCD gets!





Canadad
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Canadad 12/30/2015 8:15am
12/30/2015 8:15am
While I have learned that sprocket bolts coming loose is likely the result of "walking" caused by poor quality bolts or incompatible bolt/sprocket taper, this poster has been accused of the following:

1) Holes in his story...some sort of 250/450 conspiracy theory
2) No idea how to maintain a motorcycle - apparently due to wear on a front sprocket that has just had catastrophic failure no less
3) No idea how to use a torque wrench - even though his mechanic has confirmed his story
4) The fact that he used a torque wrench - guessing would be a better option
5) No idea how to use Loctite
6) Saving money on a cheaper option that has been shown by others testing to not be sub standard
7) No idea how to spend his OWN money - Using Tusk Wheels with A kit suspension
8) Repeatedly accused of lying about the whole story or at least the inference of such

Have I missed anything?

Anyone else with a legitimate concern we could all learn from.....step right up!
Justin345
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Justin345 12/30/2015 8:21am
12/30/2015 8:21am
Canadad wrote:
While I have learned that sprocket bolts coming loose is likely the result of "walking" caused by poor quality bolts or incompatible bolt/sprocket taper, this poster...
While I have learned that sprocket bolts coming loose is likely the result of "walking" caused by poor quality bolts or incompatible bolt/sprocket taper, this poster has been accused of the following:

1) Holes in his story...some sort of 250/450 conspiracy theory
2) No idea how to maintain a motorcycle - apparently due to wear on a front sprocket that has just had catastrophic failure no less
3) No idea how to use a torque wrench - even though his mechanic has confirmed his story
4) The fact that he used a torque wrench - guessing would be a better option
5) No idea how to use Loctite
6) Saving money on a cheaper option that has been shown by others testing to not be sub standard
7) No idea how to spend his OWN money - Using Tusk Wheels with A kit suspension
8) Repeatedly accused of lying about the whole story or at least the inference of such

Have I missed anything?

Anyone else with a legitimate concern we could all learn from.....step right up!
Spot on, sir! LaughingLaughing

Just like every other thread, you have to weed through some junk replies but there are also some real quality ideas that people have put up. Hats off to those people!
look out below 12/30/2015 8:22am
12/30/2015 8:22am
Gebken40 wrote:
This isn't a wheel problem... it is a sprocket bolt problem. I've had multiple sets of Tusk wheels for a 125, 250F, and my 450 and...
This isn't a wheel problem... it is a sprocket bolt problem.

I've had multiple sets of Tusk wheels for a 125, 250F, and my 450 and haven't had a single issue. mind you i always inspect them before every ride and before each time on the track.

I've destroyed more stock wheels and hubs than any after market brand due to hub, rim, or spoke failure and/or sprocket bolt failure. Many times aftermarket sprocket bolts are not sized properly for the hub and that can cause an issue with the bolts coming loose, shearing off, and coming apart.

More than likely it was a maintenance or fitment issue that caused this.
If only i had that pic of you casing the shit out of chad's double on that 125!!LaughingLaughing

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