Transitioning to electric bikes.

4/11/2021 2:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2021 2:05pm
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different.

I read an article recently that stated The average range of the top 25 most popular cars and trucks is about 450-500 miles. Current electric cars are about half that. It is going to take a 'next level' battery to bridge that gap and be widely accepted.

10+ years is my best guess.
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TbonesPop
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4/11/2021 4:00pm
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different...
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different.

I read an article recently that stated The average range of the top 25 most popular cars and trucks is about 450-500 miles. Current electric cars are about half that. It is going to take a 'next level' battery to bridge that gap and be widely accepted.

10+ years is my best guess.
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on the current limitations.
Titan1
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4/11/2021 4:19pm
wisey wrote:
Electric MX bikes are much easier to go faster on. I can clearly see this with the E50 kids at the track. However the skill set...
Electric MX bikes are much easier to go faster on. I can clearly see this with the E50 kids at the track.
However the skill set to ride one is much, much less and will have much, much less appreciation.

Quad = easy and anyone can do it
Bike = lots to learn, challenging, interesting

Boogie Board = easy and anyone can do it
Short board = challenging, interesting, rewarding

But hopefully it will bring new ideas to keep the interest because there will be a day.
8500rpm wrote:
'Car nerds' were very negative over double-clutch/auto boxes also, as they had learned so well to 'manual shift', it was an art, it's cheating that someone...
'Car nerds' were very negative over double-clutch/auto boxes also, as they had learned so well to 'manual shift', it was an art, it's cheating that someone can drive faster where the computer does the shifting... well, this was 10-15years ago, now only old people want to be seen in a 'back in the days manual shifter', all super fast cars have F1 inspired boxes...

Electric MX will come, you won't have to shift, but most likely they will leave the smokers in the dust one day... but the same people will be the fastest, those who spend endless of hours practicing, but they won't be practicing shifting and using the clutch, instead on more worthwhile things like jumping better, cornering faster etc.

It sucks for us 40+ riders, but the shifting skill will become obsolete one day.

Then again, Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen looks pretty cool in their super expensive auto-shift cars Wink (well, theu blip the gears, but no clutch).

The future is different, but not necessarily bad at all.

btw. I used to have a KTM E-XC, sold it... not because it didn't have gears, but it was a playbike, not built for moto... if Honda releases the their 'electric CRx' and it's as good as a CRF250/450 in every way but it has electric engine, I will be first in line. I won't have any use for my clutch/shift skills, but it will be a lot of fun and very fast... now this is mostly for recreational moto riding, I guess we are far far from professional/semi-pro moto going electric, as the industry is a large tanker to change course.

I think the biggest problem is cost really. If e-bikes would become the norm and requirement for some (close to housing areas) tracks, then it would limit riders, as only 'affluent' riders who can afford this $12.000-$15.000/bike can ride for the first 3-4years until there is a used market where good e-bikes can be picked up for maybe 4-5-6k??? Right, Wrong?

The positive is the noise.. the hate we receive from the general public is great, would be lovely to do a sport where people would care as little for us as they do for mountain bikers.

Personally I don't see the noise 2-4-strokes produce do anything for the riding experience, in some cases, it makes it worse... sh*t, how much noise that bikes makes and barely moves.

I think it will come down to Cost + Weight!
They will still cause huge ruts, braking/acceleration bumps, go to fast (scare horses, people...cause injuries), kick up way to much dust...they won’t be any more welcome on trails than an ICE dirt bike will be, and will be equally as hated my the hiking, mountain biking, horse people...

They will help private tracks (if they can keep the dust down)...but not public land...
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brocster
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4/11/2021 4:28pm
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different...
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different.

I read an article recently that stated The average range of the top 25 most popular cars and trucks is about 450-500 miles. Current electric cars are about half that. It is going to take a 'next level' battery to bridge that gap and be widely accepted.

10+ years is my best guess.
TbonesPop wrote:
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on...
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on the current limitations.
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue” by regulating ICE all the while having to increase production of said “natural gas” to supply the potential fuel for the “green vehicles”. Weird that people don’t understand that to make/manufacture fuel, of many types inclusive of batteries, it takes the burning of fossil fuel or some “other” type of gas, all of which are more harmful and regulated to release wash more toxins to the atmosphere than a couple hundred dirt bikes at a track on the weekend.
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The Shop

brettmx
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4/11/2021 5:19pm
VRR7 wrote:
It will be the death of MX ! Has anybody able to stay awake to watch a whole MotoE race ? They used to run MotoE...
It will be the death of MX !

Has anybody able to stay awake to watch a whole MotoE race ? They used to run MotoE same day as MotoGP found ratings tanked as viewer tune out when MotoE came on and did not bother to tune back.
Strangely enough I liked the MotoE races.
TbonesPop
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4/11/2021 5:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2021 6:05pm
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different...
It won't happen until battery technology takes a BIG step forward. Standard lithium ion is not the solution of the future. It will be something different.

I read an article recently that stated The average range of the top 25 most popular cars and trucks is about 450-500 miles. Current electric cars are about half that. It is going to take a 'next level' battery to bridge that gap and be widely accepted.

10+ years is my best guess.
TbonesPop wrote:
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on...
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on the current limitations.
brocster wrote:
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue”...
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue” by regulating ICE all the while having to increase production of said “natural gas” to supply the potential fuel for the “green vehicles”. Weird that people don’t understand that to make/manufacture fuel, of many types inclusive of batteries, it takes the burning of fossil fuel or some “other” type of gas, all of which are more harmful and regulated to release wash more toxins to the atmosphere than a couple hundred dirt bikes at a track on the weekend.
I don't know what % the current hydrogen comes from, but its easily produced from electrolysis generators using water as an input. I'm a chemical engineer with 24 years of experience and specialize in electrolytic generation. I work with hydrogen separators on a daily basis. Its easy to get hydrogen from the splitting of water through electrolysis. In fact we have it as a waste byproduct on many systems, of which I work with daily. You use a solar power system to power the electrolysis generator and capture your hydrogen. Its very simple.

And being that I'm a chemical engineer, I understand many of these processes mentioned above. But in my industry, I don't have the luxury of making up wild ass claims about climate change etc and never being held accountable for the claims. If what we do doesn't work, we don't get paid. Its that simple.

But to your point, you can produce hydrogen very simply and cost effectively from water as an input in basic hydrolysis equipment. No need to get it from natural gas.
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Hank_Thrill
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4/11/2021 5:47pm
Heck guys, electric? If we’re going to abandon our fossil fuels we should at least be considering clean burning propane.
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mike_v812
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4/11/2021 6:50pm
TbonesPop wrote:
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on...
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on the current limitations.
brocster wrote:
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue”...
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue” by regulating ICE all the while having to increase production of said “natural gas” to supply the potential fuel for the “green vehicles”. Weird that people don’t understand that to make/manufacture fuel, of many types inclusive of batteries, it takes the burning of fossil fuel or some “other” type of gas, all of which are more harmful and regulated to release wash more toxins to the atmosphere than a couple hundred dirt bikes at a track on the weekend.
TbonesPop wrote:
I don't know what % the current hydrogen comes from, but its easily produced from electrolysis generators using water as an input. I'm a chemical engineer...
I don't know what % the current hydrogen comes from, but its easily produced from electrolysis generators using water as an input. I'm a chemical engineer with 24 years of experience and specialize in electrolytic generation. I work with hydrogen separators on a daily basis. Its easy to get hydrogen from the splitting of water through electrolysis. In fact we have it as a waste byproduct on many systems, of which I work with daily. You use a solar power system to power the electrolysis generator and capture your hydrogen. Its very simple.

And being that I'm a chemical engineer, I understand many of these processes mentioned above. But in my industry, I don't have the luxury of making up wild ass claims about climate change etc and never being held accountable for the claims. If what we do doesn't work, we don't get paid. Its that simple.

But to your point, you can produce hydrogen very simply and cost effectively from water as an input in basic hydrolysis equipment. No need to get it from natural gas.
Well, I’m not a chemical engineer...but I did stay at a Holliday inn express last night!
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kage173
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4/11/2021 6:54pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2021 6:56pm
Anybody talking about environment and climate change in an electric dirtbike discussion is is completely missing the point. The opportunity with electric bikes is less noise. And it will be a big impact.

As far as the transition, it's already happening. You go to a track and you see all the kids on Stacycs and electric KTMs. Will it take some time yes but it'll be faster than you think. And it will grow this sport big time.
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TbonesPop
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4/11/2021 7:19pm
Personally, I'll miss the noise of an ICE dirtike when it happens. But I'm highly intrigued at the performance of Electric vehicles (using FCV), especially when it comes to FCV technology as the fuel source to keep the batteries charged. No recharge time.

Here's an example of hydrogen coming from water using renewables and water. FCV's are the way of the future. It eliminates the recharge time and gives all the performance benefits of electric (torque and Hp).

Infrastructure will be the delay. The vehicles are coming.

https://nelhydrogen.com/water-electrolysers-hydrogen-generators/

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CG118
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4/11/2021 7:26pm
Dust is a big issue in the soithwest. Not so much for us on the east coast. They can’t hide as easily as we can. If neighbors can’t see us, they are none the wiser. We will require less land.

Electrics might take over sooner here.
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Potsy3
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4/11/2021 7:42pm
wisey wrote:
Electric MX bikes are much easier to go faster on. I can clearly see this with the E50 kids at the track. However the skill set...
Electric MX bikes are much easier to go faster on. I can clearly see this with the E50 kids at the track.
However the skill set to ride one is much, much less and will have much, much less appreciation.

Quad = easy and anyone can do it
Bike = lots to learn, challenging, interesting

Boogie Board = easy and anyone can do it
Short board = challenging, interesting, rewarding

But hopefully it will bring new ideas to keep the interest because there will be a day.
8500rpm wrote:
'Car nerds' were very negative over double-clutch/auto boxes also, as they had learned so well to 'manual shift', it was an art, it's cheating that someone...
'Car nerds' were very negative over double-clutch/auto boxes also, as they had learned so well to 'manual shift', it was an art, it's cheating that someone can drive faster where the computer does the shifting... well, this was 10-15years ago, now only old people want to be seen in a 'back in the days manual shifter', all super fast cars have F1 inspired boxes...

Electric MX will come, you won't have to shift, but most likely they will leave the smokers in the dust one day... but the same people will be the fastest, those who spend endless of hours practicing, but they won't be practicing shifting and using the clutch, instead on more worthwhile things like jumping better, cornering faster etc.

It sucks for us 40+ riders, but the shifting skill will become obsolete one day.

Then again, Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen looks pretty cool in their super expensive auto-shift cars Wink (well, theu blip the gears, but no clutch).

The future is different, but not necessarily bad at all.

btw. I used to have a KTM E-XC, sold it... not because it didn't have gears, but it was a playbike, not built for moto... if Honda releases the their 'electric CRx' and it's as good as a CRF250/450 in every way but it has electric engine, I will be first in line. I won't have any use for my clutch/shift skills, but it will be a lot of fun and very fast... now this is mostly for recreational moto riding, I guess we are far far from professional/semi-pro moto going electric, as the industry is a large tanker to change course.

I think the biggest problem is cost really. If e-bikes would become the norm and requirement for some (close to housing areas) tracks, then it would limit riders, as only 'affluent' riders who can afford this $12.000-$15.000/bike can ride for the first 3-4years until there is a used market where good e-bikes can be picked up for maybe 4-5-6k??? Right, Wrong?

The positive is the noise.. the hate we receive from the general public is great, would be lovely to do a sport where people would care as little for us as they do for mountain bikers.

Personally I don't see the noise 2-4-strokes produce do anything for the riding experience, in some cases, it makes it worse... sh*t, how much noise that bikes makes and barely moves.

I think it will come down to Cost + Weight!
I agree,

I also know from experience that some younger riders are scared by the noise of a bike when they start. I personally was terrified of them until I was 10 or so. Had they been electric that may not have been the case.

Could get more kids involved, just a thought
brocster
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4/11/2021 8:01pm
TbonesPop wrote:
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on...
*Hydrogen used for reverse electrolysis to keep batteries charged fixes those issues (and hydrogen is no more or less dangerous than gasoline). Agree with you on the current limitations.
brocster wrote:
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue”...
Doesn’t ~95% of current Hydrogen production come from Fossil Fuels currently? i.e. natural gas. Once again I’ll say we are trying to solve a “green issue” by regulating ICE all the while having to increase production of said “natural gas” to supply the potential fuel for the “green vehicles”. Weird that people don’t understand that to make/manufacture fuel, of many types inclusive of batteries, it takes the burning of fossil fuel or some “other” type of gas, all of which are more harmful and regulated to release wash more toxins to the atmosphere than a couple hundred dirt bikes at a track on the weekend.
TbonesPop wrote:
I don't know what % the current hydrogen comes from, but its easily produced from electrolysis generators using water as an input. I'm a chemical engineer...
I don't know what % the current hydrogen comes from, but its easily produced from electrolysis generators using water as an input. I'm a chemical engineer with 24 years of experience and specialize in electrolytic generation. I work with hydrogen separators on a daily basis. Its easy to get hydrogen from the splitting of water through electrolysis. In fact we have it as a waste byproduct on many systems, of which I work with daily. You use a solar power system to power the electrolysis generator and capture your hydrogen. Its very simple.

And being that I'm a chemical engineer, I understand many of these processes mentioned above. But in my industry, I don't have the luxury of making up wild ass claims about climate change etc and never being held accountable for the claims. If what we do doesn't work, we don't get paid. Its that simple.

But to your point, you can produce hydrogen very simply and cost effectively from water as an input in basic hydrolysis equipment. No need to get it from natural gas.
I think you spoke right into my point. How much fossil fuel will need to be produced to refine and crack into the components needed to produce, on a mass scale, the pieces and parts for electrolysis generators and the supporting solar panels, wind mills etc. seems as though we are trying to solve one problem while creating another.

I am just spit balling here as I am not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn express last night, I just worked in the oil and gas, refining, petrochemical industry for 26 years dealing with CEMS analyzers and Green House Gas emissions outside of understanding what it means to extract oil and gas from the earth to end product, be it fuels, chemicals or resins that make up 90% of your daily comforts.

I now work in water and wastewater where we are slowly eliminating what we outfall to the ocean and have plans for Ground Water Replenishment as well as bottling drinkable recycled water all produced with power generated from “digester gas”. i.e. Methane, better known as “fart gas”
crt32
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4/11/2021 8:43pm
Batteries do not equal clean. People need to research how they are produced, charged, and eventually disposed. Want to build electric bike fine, but dont use the argument because its cleaner. Whole going green thing is about green money and nothing else.
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TbonesPop
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4/11/2021 9:01pm
brocster wrote:
I think you spoke right into my point. How much fossil fuel will need to be produced to refine and crack into the components needed to...
I think you spoke right into my point. How much fossil fuel will need to be produced to refine and crack into the components needed to produce, on a mass scale, the pieces and parts for electrolysis generators and the supporting solar panels, wind mills etc. seems as though we are trying to solve one problem while creating another.

I am just spit balling here as I am not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn express last night, I just worked in the oil and gas, refining, petrochemical industry for 26 years dealing with CEMS analyzers and Green House Gas emissions outside of understanding what it means to extract oil and gas from the earth to end product, be it fuels, chemicals or resins that make up 90% of your daily comforts.

I now work in water and wastewater where we are slowly eliminating what we outfall to the ocean and have plans for Ground Water Replenishment as well as bottling drinkable recycled water all produced with power generated from “digester gas”. i.e. Methane, better known as “fart gas”
Energy sector will never go away permanently - people thinking it will are delusional. I too do work in the energy sector and will continue to do so (along with many other industries). There are many raw materials that are derived from the oil and gas energy (tires and plastics anyone?) that will always be needed. I spent time developing frack fluid programs as well as production well chemistry in the past. We currently do a fair amount of work in healthcare and many other industries including energy, namely focused around electrolytic generation equipment. I'm not some tree hugger (or cactus hugger) that's focused on climate change propaganda. I am genuinely interested in getting new technology to market that betters the end user, and if ends up being better for the environment, then so be it. My primary interest in this for moto is in performance gains for the bikes. I like my ICE. But I'm very interested in what the future holds for technology in moto. And I'm doing my best to steer this discussion in the way of performance technology for moto and not a political debate.

I think if the manufacturers want buy in from the consumers in our sport, they are better served to focus on performance and not "saving the planet". As stated, if it is better for the environment (cradle to grave), then fine. But lets talk technology and performance is my MO.
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8500rpm
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4/12/2021 12:16am
For sure the sport will change, one day.... when that day is I don't know.

For some of us, it's a hobby and proud skills to do a full re-build, I did the last full rebuild 4 months ago... it was an evening time hobby during the winter. It was fun.

For others, they hate it, they would ride more if they had a) more money b) more time and wouldn't need to do as much bike maintenance.

I think in the future with e-mx we will see more of these 'urban sports' who keep their e-mx in the basement, never really do any maintenance, they have no space nor skills for it, but they practice a lot, they are skilled, they have fun and it's moto!

There future will be good, it will be different, but I'm sure we will have great speed, great suspension and fantastic jumps. When this is, I have no idea.. personally I think cost/cost-drivers are the biggest hurdle.

but opinions may vary Smile

btw... Axels latest Slaygroud, did the noice really bring anything to it, or would it have been as 'cool' if it would have been an e-mx that looked exactly the same as his Kawi, rode the same, accelerated the same?
4/12/2021 12:36am
CG118 wrote:
Dust is a big issue in the soithwest. Not so much for us on the east coast. They can’t hide as easily as we can. If...
Dust is a big issue in the soithwest. Not so much for us on the east coast. They can’t hide as easily as we can. If neighbors can’t see us, they are none the wiser. We will require less land.

Electrics might take over sooner here.
Exactly my thoughts, here in the UK.

Where I live, 10 yards away I have a lane leading to a vast area of woodland, much of it is coppiced. Ive ridden my nice quiet GasGas trials bike there for years without any issue, despite not officially being allowed to ride there. But Id never get away with an ICE MX/Enduro bike down there- far far too noisy for the housing around the outskirts of it. However, with an electric bike I could ride as much as I want and as regularly as I want because nobody would know I was there!
That suits me and is why my cheque book is waiting for the first of the big five manufacturers to produce something proper, just like the CRF-E we have seen photos of. Ive ridden a KTM Freeride-E and it was mega! But I won't buy one until its a proper 'full size' bike.
3
4/12/2021 5:08am
Industry doesn't want electric. Manufacturers aren't eager either.
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Zesiger 112
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4/12/2021 5:24am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2021 5:24am
Don’t have to worry about transitioning over to electric. There is no current electric bike company and by the time the big manufactures make the switch moto will be dead.
Why? Because kids now don’t like outside, you can’t ride a motorcycle from an iPad.

Plus in 15 years all our kids will be pushed toward swimming on the Olympic teams. You know, because of the webbed feet and hands they will have from their parents getting the vaccine.
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Silas444
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4/12/2021 5:56am
I have a Freeride E-XC, and while yes, I agree, it's not completely "there" yet, one ride tells you E-technology is damn close. I've let everyone from total beginners to pro-level guys ride it, and I've yet to have one of them come back and say, "Man, what a waste of time that was." They loved it, everybody LOVES it - but yeah, on race day, it stays parked and my 250SXF gets it's due. Still, there's no denying the "game-changer" abilities it has regarding both riding area opportunities and introducing new people to the sport. I mean, you can completely change the engine's power output characteristics in about fifteen seconds. No "throttle-limiter" can do that.

I've had people with zero motocross experience learn to ride my track over the course of a single weekend. I was able to train them by riding next to them on my Honda EZ90 while giving them instructions they could easily hear. "Stand, sit, use the rear brake only here, move farther up the seat in that corner, squeeze the bikes with your legs more" - etcetera. it's a fantastic bike to learn on, there's nothing else like it. I'm letting a friend of mine borrow it right now. He lives in town and has an enormous backyard. His young son is learning moto on his Stacys, and he rides side-by-side with him around a track they've made there. Not one neighbor even knows they're there- and like I said, they live smack-dab in the middle of town!!!

The guys on this site are so informed and experienced, it's greatly refreshing (and informative) to hear their "real world" viewpoint. I totally agree E-bikes will have a net-zero effect on the environment, but I totally DISagree there aren't other reasons they might take over. And I say that because I have both WITNESSED and actually LIVED those reasons.
5
sandtrack315
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4/12/2021 6:31am
Don’t have to worry about transitioning over to electric. There is no current electric bike company and by the time the big manufactures make the switch...
Don’t have to worry about transitioning over to electric. There is no current electric bike company and by the time the big manufactures make the switch moto will be dead.
Why? Because kids now don’t like outside, you can’t ride a motorcycle from an iPad.

Plus in 15 years all our kids will be pushed toward swimming on the Olympic teams. You know, because of the webbed feet and hands they will have from their parents getting the vaccine.
Sad thing is that here on vital I’m not really sure if this is a joke or not!
Zesiger 112
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4/12/2021 6:34am
Don’t have to worry about transitioning over to electric. There is no current electric bike company and by the time the big manufactures make the switch...
Don’t have to worry about transitioning over to electric. There is no current electric bike company and by the time the big manufactures make the switch moto will be dead.
Why? Because kids now don’t like outside, you can’t ride a motorcycle from an iPad.

Plus in 15 years all our kids will be pushed toward swimming on the Olympic teams. You know, because of the webbed feet and hands they will have from their parents getting the vaccine.
Sad thing is that here on vital I’m not really sure if this is a joke or not!
Top part is no joke, bottom part is lol
brocster
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4/12/2021 7:24am
brocster wrote:
I think you spoke right into my point. How much fossil fuel will need to be produced to refine and crack into the components needed to...
I think you spoke right into my point. How much fossil fuel will need to be produced to refine and crack into the components needed to produce, on a mass scale, the pieces and parts for electrolysis generators and the supporting solar panels, wind mills etc. seems as though we are trying to solve one problem while creating another.

I am just spit balling here as I am not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn express last night, I just worked in the oil and gas, refining, petrochemical industry for 26 years dealing with CEMS analyzers and Green House Gas emissions outside of understanding what it means to extract oil and gas from the earth to end product, be it fuels, chemicals or resins that make up 90% of your daily comforts.

I now work in water and wastewater where we are slowly eliminating what we outfall to the ocean and have plans for Ground Water Replenishment as well as bottling drinkable recycled water all produced with power generated from “digester gas”. i.e. Methane, better known as “fart gas”
TbonesPop wrote:
Energy sector will never go away permanently - people thinking it will are delusional. I too do work in the energy sector and will continue to...
Energy sector will never go away permanently - people thinking it will are delusional. I too do work in the energy sector and will continue to do so (along with many other industries). There are many raw materials that are derived from the oil and gas energy (tires and plastics anyone?) that will always be needed. I spent time developing frack fluid programs as well as production well chemistry in the past. We currently do a fair amount of work in healthcare and many other industries including energy, namely focused around electrolytic generation equipment. I'm not some tree hugger (or cactus hugger) that's focused on climate change propaganda. I am genuinely interested in getting new technology to market that betters the end user, and if ends up being better for the environment, then so be it. My primary interest in this for moto is in performance gains for the bikes. I like my ICE. But I'm very interested in what the future holds for technology in moto. And I'm doing my best to steer this discussion in the way of performance technology for moto and not a political debate.

I think if the manufacturers want buy in from the consumers in our sport, they are better served to focus on performance and not "saving the planet". As stated, if it is better for the environment (cradle to grave), then fine. But lets talk technology and performance is my MO.
FWIW. I have ridden an Alta and was blown away by how “real” it felt to an ICE bike and have to be honest and say that I have considered buying one. However, I’ll take the back seat for now until battery technology improves as I see that as the only flaw, the bike and the power are the real deal. I spotted theycallmebryan yesterday at Pala with a pretty big generator, a cooling fan and a laptop for a day out on the Alta and currently I am not ready to pack it like that to the track.

Thanks for the insight!
8500rpm
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4/12/2021 7:58am
Silas444 wrote:
I have a Freeride E-XC, and while yes, I agree, it's not completely "there" yet, one ride tells you E-technology is damn close. I've let everyone...
I have a Freeride E-XC, and while yes, I agree, it's not completely "there" yet, one ride tells you E-technology is damn close. I've let everyone from total beginners to pro-level guys ride it, and I've yet to have one of them come back and say, "Man, what a waste of time that was." They loved it, everybody LOVES it - but yeah, on race day, it stays parked and my 250SXF gets it's due. Still, there's no denying the "game-changer" abilities it has regarding both riding area opportunities and introducing new people to the sport. I mean, you can completely change the engine's power output characteristics in about fifteen seconds. No "throttle-limiter" can do that.

I've had people with zero motocross experience learn to ride my track over the course of a single weekend. I was able to train them by riding next to them on my Honda EZ90 while giving them instructions they could easily hear. "Stand, sit, use the rear brake only here, move farther up the seat in that corner, squeeze the bikes with your legs more" - etcetera. it's a fantastic bike to learn on, there's nothing else like it. I'm letting a friend of mine borrow it right now. He lives in town and has an enormous backyard. His young son is learning moto on his Stacys, and he rides side-by-side with him around a track they've made there. Not one neighbor even knows they're there- and like I said, they live smack-dab in the middle of town!!!

The guys on this site are so informed and experienced, it's greatly refreshing (and informative) to hear their "real world" viewpoint. I totally agree E-bikes will have a net-zero effect on the environment, but I totally DISagree there aren't other reasons they might take over. And I say that because I have both WITNESSED and actually LIVED those reasons.
Agree! It's fantastic as a beginners bike and also just as a play bike.

I rode in the woods, trails where I met people on horses, walking, they greeted friendly... I wonder if they even knew I was on a 'dirt bike', well, they saw the riding gear of course but...

I would never ever go to the same location with my 4-stroke... the hate is huge!

I would have kept the bike if it had more 'moto style' geometry and suspension, it was too much geared towards play riding.... AND (big one), an extra battery was silly expensive Sad

1
Bret
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Mission Viejo, CA US
4/12/2021 8:04am
The majority of the people reading this are not the target demographic for electric motorcycles. We will all get to ride our gasoline powered machines until we are too old to ride. The new riders will be introduced to electric at a very young age and won't have the same perspective as we do. I will also miss the smell of race gas and working the clutch and shifter. I don't think that electric motorcycles will be the end of moto. The rising population and land availability will likely be the reason that racing slowly dies off. I am looking forward to the day when the electric vehicle industry is mature and efficient so I can enjoy the benefits of them. I would definitely like to keep one or two of my two strokes and maybe have a muscle car or an old Bronco for nostalgic reasons. I just don't see a downside to the impending electric migration.
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45ACP
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Friendswood, TX US
4/12/2021 11:38am
If/when one of the major manufacturers comes out with a legit electric MX bike, I'll be one of the first in line. Just for the fact that I could ride in my own backyard without pissing off the neighbors.
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