Training for moto - running

Naanak
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7/15/2019 6:02pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2019 6:25pm
I race outdoors and honestly the last thing I would wanna do on a Monday is run. After the motos normally Sunday is just a relaxing...
I race outdoors and honestly the last thing I would wanna do on a Monday is run. After the motos normally Sunday is just a relaxing day (normally a travel day) and on Monday I’ll go back to work (6am-7pm) then when I get off I’ll normally cycle for about an hour and half and do 30-35 miles. Tuesday I’m in the gym after work with stationary bike ride at the end, Wednesday I cycle for an hour then go the the gym, Thursday I’ll work then normally travel to the races. My program sucks because I can’t ride during the week at all but unfortunately I have to make money to get to the next race. I’m not top rider but this is what my program looks like a little bit
Naanak wrote:
Your in the wrong sport if your doing those miles in that time.
Typo wrote:
You're *

BTW - That's very average. You have no idea what you are talking about.
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just cause he says he’s pro doesn’t mean you need to defend him.
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Sluggo77
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7/15/2019 7:24pm
Typo wrote:
You're *

BTW - That's very average. You have no idea what you are talking about.
He did not say "VERY AVERAGE". He said he does 30 miles on the the bike in an hour.....which is 100% bull caca. He's not doing...
He did not say "VERY AVERAGE". He said he does 30 miles on the the bike in an hour.....which is 100% bull caca. He's not doing anything remotely close to that. If he could, he would be on TV blowing everyone away in the Tour de France.
You are in such a hurry to crap on someone you don't even have the facts right. He said an hour and a half, not an hour. Big difference.
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face biter
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7/15/2019 8:04pm
Dang, I love my road bike, and I was pretty proud of my 15MPH average... until now.
7/16/2019 2:16am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 2:35am
Cycling is the best...specifically RACING. Racing a bicycle is MUCH different than just training on a bike. Riding can be too easy unless you really have the discipline. Racing can be pure suffering hell. It is not just about being able to put down power, but recovery. This is the part that can really help with MX. Being able to punch your heart rate way up there and then recover FAST without blowing up is key. This is what competitive cycling is really all about. Crits or short lap circuit road races are a great prep for MX. This vid of Tyler Pearce will give you an idea how hellish higher level riding can be.... yeah it sucks. It is hard to really understand what it means to put down power till you try to race...

Sea Otter Road Race

The Shop

TJMX947
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Indian Trail, NC US
7/16/2019 5:16am
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is the preferred training apparatus now. Running is hard on the joints so I have used it as a race pace type workout, 10 - 15 minutes and I'm done, the minimum effective dose is what I'm after in regard to running.
aees
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7/16/2019 5:24am
Running just puts you in no man's land. Either zone 3 or zone 4. Recovery and duration training which is what these guys need (beside getting HRZ5 on bike), zone 2. Best accomplished on e-bikes or easy rowing.
kb228
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Mansfield, OH US
7/16/2019 5:25am
aees wrote:
Running just puts you in no man's land. Either zone 3 or zone 4. Recovery and duration training which is what these guys need (beside getting...
Running just puts you in no man's land. Either zone 3 or zone 4. Recovery and duration training which is what these guys need (beside getting HRZ5 on bike), zone 2. Best accomplished on e-bikes or easy rowing.
Wouldnt interval training solve that though? And you can jog without getting into those higher zones too. Dont have to sprint the entire time
aees
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7/16/2019 5:29am
aees wrote:
Running just puts you in no man's land. Either zone 3 or zone 4. Recovery and duration training which is what these guys need (beside getting...
Running just puts you in no man's land. Either zone 3 or zone 4. Recovery and duration training which is what these guys need (beside getting HRZ5 on bike), zone 2. Best accomplished on e-bikes or easy rowing.
kb228 wrote:
Wouldnt interval training solve that though? And you can jog without getting into those higher zones too. Dont have to sprint the entire time
Intervals puts you in zone 5, activating fast twitch fibers only.

Very hard for most people to stay 5bpm below zone 3 with running, takes fast walking.
lumpy790
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York, SC US
7/16/2019 6:18am
The best thing about running was that I was not normally in constant fear of being hit by cars or trucks.
With a trashed knee I enjoy street riding now but ... 250 Nationals came very close to being changed this week.



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7/16/2019 6:42am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 6:43am
3 days a week of base running; trying to establish a pace around 75% of a target "race" pace; 2 days a week of mixed intervals or speed workouts pushing to 90% of your 5k or 10k race pace. 1 day total rest/recovery, 1 day of stretching (yoga)/pool workout/rower/bike ride/something to give your joints some rest and remain pliable.

IMO, look into training program for a 10k race. Most "average" people run in the 7:15-7:30 range, puts you into the 45 minute range of staying in that area 4 to area 5 range with your heart rate, in theory just above a moto (cardio wise). That's about all I have time for training at 4:30 every morning before work. My riding is rubish, but whenever I go to NEPG enduros or a local MX race, I always pull guys by the end of my 3rd/4th motos or make a big push on the last 2 special tests of an enduro.
Myke
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7/16/2019 6:42am
If you search out some running techniques on youtube you can lesson the impact on your joints with good form.
Myke
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7/16/2019 6:49am
3 days a week of base running; trying to establish a pace around 75% of a target "race" pace; 2 days a week of mixed intervals...
3 days a week of base running; trying to establish a pace around 75% of a target "race" pace; 2 days a week of mixed intervals or speed workouts pushing to 90% of your 5k or 10k race pace. 1 day total rest/recovery, 1 day of stretching (yoga)/pool workout/rower/bike ride/something to give your joints some rest and remain pliable.

IMO, look into training program for a 10k race. Most "average" people run in the 7:15-7:30 range, puts you into the 45 minute range of staying in that area 4 to area 5 range with your heart rate, in theory just above a moto (cardio wise). That's about all I have time for training at 4:30 every morning before work. My riding is rubish, but whenever I go to NEPG enduros or a local MX race, I always pull guys by the end of my 3rd/4th motos or make a big push on the last 2 special tests of an enduro.
Just running a 5k Tues and Thurs at my slow 10:00/mile pace helps with my motos on the weekend. I do try to ride both weekend days as well.





colintrax
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7/16/2019 6:56am
Naanak wrote:
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just...
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just cause he says he’s pro doesn’t mean you need to defend him.
Your reading comprehension is akin to a 5 year old. Nothing he said is bullshit so STFU noob.
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sandtrack315
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7/16/2019 7:56am
Anyone use those air bikes? I can slam it for 20 minutes and keep my heart rate at the same level it is during motos (160-170) pretty easily. Plus it works the arm and back muscles you need for Moto in addition to your legs. That is what I use for cardio now.
aees
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US
7/16/2019 9:05am
Anyone use those air bikes? I can slam it for 20 minutes and keep my heart rate at the same level it is during motos (160-170)...
Anyone use those air bikes? I can slam it for 20 minutes and keep my heart rate at the same level it is during motos (160-170) pretty easily. Plus it works the arm and back muscles you need for Moto in addition to your legs. That is what I use for cardio now.
If you ride at full intensity 2 days a week, you don't need more intensity training. Drop down and do 70-90min zone 2, 2 times a week and you will be surprised how much that affect muscle stamina and recovery. Possibly mix with a zone 4 6-8min x6 for threshold training.

You need slow twich fibers to help transport lactic acid away. You can never get mucles to get used to lactic acid for the time needed for a full 20-25min moto by just putting the muscles through more of it (volume and intensity) but you can work the system so it quicker gets rid of it.
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sandtrack315
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7/16/2019 9:23am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 9:26am
Anyone use those air bikes? I can slam it for 20 minutes and keep my heart rate at the same level it is during motos (160-170)...
Anyone use those air bikes? I can slam it for 20 minutes and keep my heart rate at the same level it is during motos (160-170) pretty easily. Plus it works the arm and back muscles you need for Moto in addition to your legs. That is what I use for cardio now.
aees wrote:
If you ride at full intensity 2 days a week, you don't need more intensity training. Drop down and do 70-90min zone 2, 2 times a...
If you ride at full intensity 2 days a week, you don't need more intensity training. Drop down and do 70-90min zone 2, 2 times a week and you will be surprised how much that affect muscle stamina and recovery. Possibly mix with a zone 4 6-8min x6 for threshold training.

You need slow twich fibers to help transport lactic acid away. You can never get mucles to get used to lactic acid for the time needed for a full 20-25min moto by just putting the muscles through more of it (volume and intensity) but you can work the system so it quicker gets rid of it.
Yeah, I usually only have time to get to the track once every 7-10 days, sometimes 2-3 weeks off if I have to travel for work, so 2-3 high intensity work outs a week is helpful for me. Plus, my max heart rate is about 196, so that's about a 3.75 zone. But you're probably right that some long efforts are good. Do you have a review article or anything that supports this?
Indy mxer
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7/16/2019 9:43am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 12:41pm
I'm 62 and have been an avid runner since 1982. I usually run about 4 to 5 miles. Never really wanted to do the longer stuff.
About 16 months ago after too much research, the wife and I bought a Peloton Bike to give our legs a break from all the years of running.

Wow, now I know why the pro's cycle so much.
I thought I was in shape until I took my first class. Holy crap did it kick my ass.
I'm using muscles I didn't use running ( think hamstrings and glutes). I sweat more in a 45 minute class than I do on a 4 mile run in July. I've lost 8 lbs but gained some muscle, and my legs last much longer riding mx.

The instructors and classes are awesome. Best cardio out there imo. And this is coming from a longtime running snob.

They're a bit pricey, but we look at it as an investment in our health. And unlike cycling you never coast and you can ride year round.



Paw Paw 271
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7/16/2019 10:00am
Many years ago when I was at the top of the non pro MX pecking order nationally , I ran 5 miles every day and rode mx 3 times a week for training. The build up of cardio fitness was obvious at each race. I would race at least 3 classes each weekend and had more energy than I could ever use. I was at the top of my game in the extreme heat. That was the good old days and then I got real old.

Paw Paw
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Naanak
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7/16/2019 11:36am
Naanak wrote:
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just...
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just cause he says he’s pro doesn’t mean you need to defend him.
colintrax wrote:
Your reading comprehension is akin to a 5 year old. Nothing he said is bullshit so STFU noob.
Please explain what I’m failing to comprehend? Guys who win races aren’t putting those miles in, in that time. Especially after working construction for 13 hours.
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lumpy790
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7/16/2019 11:48am
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps.

My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running in the heat of the day in 95+ temps and 90-95% humidity in sweats & a sweat shirt but I was not fading half way though a 30 min moto like most were. I also ran sometimes in my MX boots too.
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Indy mxer
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7/16/2019 12:31pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps. My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running...
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps.

My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running in the heat of the day in 95+ temps and 90-95% humidity in sweats & a sweat shirt but I was not fading half way though a 30 min moto like most were. I also ran sometimes in my MX boots too.
I still run outdoors in the high humidity, just did last Sunday.. But the Peloton is much more than a wind bike, it's awesome low impact cardio. You should do a bit of research before you make dumb comments. Btw, your grammar needs work!
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GrapeApe
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7/16/2019 12:35pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps. My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running...
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps.

My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running in the heat of the day in 95+ temps and 90-95% humidity in sweats & a sweat shirt but I was not fading half way though a 30 min moto like most were. I also ran sometimes in my MX boots too.
Indy mxer wrote:
I still run outdoors in the high humidity, just did last Sunday.. But the Peloton is much more than a wind bike, it's awesome low impact...
I still run outdoors in the high humidity, just did last Sunday.. But the Peloton is much more than a wind bike, it's awesome low impact cardio. You should do a bit of research before you make dumb comments. Btw, your grammar needs work!
How can you possibly question someone that ran in 95+ temps and 95% humidity in a sweat suit and MX boots Huh
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Indy mxer
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7/16/2019 12:38pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps. My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running...
Training in AC on a wind bike does not you in shape for high humidity and temps.

My neighbors in MD thought I was crazy running in the heat of the day in 95+ temps and 90-95% humidity in sweats & a sweat shirt but I was not fading half way though a 30 min moto like most were. I also ran sometimes in my MX boots too.
Indy mxer wrote:
I still run outdoors in the high humidity, just did last Sunday.. But the Peloton is much more than a wind bike, it's awesome low impact...
I still run outdoors in the high humidity, just did last Sunday.. But the Peloton is much more than a wind bike, it's awesome low impact cardio. You should do a bit of research before you make dumb comments. Btw, your grammar needs work!
GrapeApe wrote:
How can you possibly question someone that ran in 95+ temps and 95% humidity in a sweat suit and MX boots Huh
Yeah you're right. Obviously I'm doing it all wrong. lol
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7/16/2019 12:39pm
The only time you should run is if you're being chased by a lion, tiger or rabid pit bull.
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AE448
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7/16/2019 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 2:11pm
I do the local parkrun every Saturday, 5k (3.1 miles) in roughly 20:00 mins or sub-20 on a good day! This equates to 6:26/mi. I monitor my HR and it averages ~180bpm (27 years old), max's out at 193bpm. This is pretty damn intense. I enjoy it too...but...I just don't think it translates to MX all that well. I've done road/MTB riding and I think a 2 hour ride once or twice a week with some intervals would be better as it works more related muscles (all leg muscles, abs, hips, upper body to an extent and keeps you sharp skills-wise if you're on a mountain bike). Running works your lungs extremely well and for a duration similar to a moto, but I still got knackered on an MX bike when I could run this pace. Rowing is the best in my opinion if you're strapped on time. It is a whole body workout consisting of busting your muscles and your lungs at the same time...much like MX. Running utilises the quads and hamstrings...as I said the MTB works more plus it's easier to recover afterwards and do it all the following day.
7/16/2019 2:12pm
Naanak wrote:
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just...
One look at any pros Strava shows that his times are definitely bull. The kid said after the motos and he doesn’t even make lcqs. Just cause he says he’s pro doesn’t mean you need to defend him.
colintrax wrote:
Your reading comprehension is akin to a 5 year old. Nothing he said is bullshit so STFU noob.
"Nothing he said is bullshit" how would you know... dude claims to be tired "after the Motos" meanwhile at red bud he qualified 86 out of 87. Didn't even race the lcq sounds like a huge load to me.
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AE448
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7/16/2019 2:18pm
TJMX947 wrote:
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is...
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is the preferred training apparatus now. Running is hard on the joints so I have used it as a race pace type workout, 10 - 15 minutes and I'm done, the minimum effective dose is what I'm after in regard to running.
I have to agree 100%. I bought a road bike in 2015 for MX training and at first loved it...then slowly every year I got more and more put off riding on the roads with idiot drivers. I;ve never been knocked off...never been close to it...but I've had plenty of inconsiderate drivers...and the thing that put the final tick in the box of quitting was when I was doing the washing up one day...I looked out at all the drivers going past on the road out-front...it was scary how many were looking down into their laps. Real scary how many.
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Indy mxer
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7/16/2019 2:26pm
TJMX947 wrote:
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is...
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is the preferred training apparatus now. Running is hard on the joints so I have used it as a race pace type workout, 10 - 15 minutes and I'm done, the minimum effective dose is what I'm after in regard to running.
AE448 wrote:
I have to agree 100%. I bought a road bike in 2015 for MX training and at first loved it...then slowly every year I got more...
I have to agree 100%. I bought a road bike in 2015 for MX training and at first loved it...then slowly every year I got more and more put off riding on the roads with idiot drivers. I;ve never been knocked off...never been close to it...but I've had plenty of inconsiderate drivers...and the thing that put the final tick in the box of quitting was when I was doing the washing up one day...I looked out at all the drivers going past on the road out-front...it was scary how many were looking down into their laps. Real scary how many.
I have a moto buddy that got hit about a month ago road cycling. He was lucky, ended up in the hospital for a night but was just scraped and banged up. I know 2 other people who have got hit here. Our roads are ok but we don't have much shoulder along most of them.

For all you guys that love to cycle, check out the Peloton. Works the same muscles and you get an awesome cardio workout in 45 minutes. It's the real deal. If you have a Peloton store anywhere near you go in for a test ride and take a class.

And no, I don't work for them. lol
AE448
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GB
7/16/2019 2:30pm
TJMX947 wrote:
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is...
I used to love cycling but its wayyy too dangerous now. Im glad we haven't seen accidents with moto guys given that the road bike is the preferred training apparatus now. Running is hard on the joints so I have used it as a race pace type workout, 10 - 15 minutes and I'm done, the minimum effective dose is what I'm after in regard to running.
AE448 wrote:
I have to agree 100%. I bought a road bike in 2015 for MX training and at first loved it...then slowly every year I got more...
I have to agree 100%. I bought a road bike in 2015 for MX training and at first loved it...then slowly every year I got more and more put off riding on the roads with idiot drivers. I;ve never been knocked off...never been close to it...but I've had plenty of inconsiderate drivers...and the thing that put the final tick in the box of quitting was when I was doing the washing up one day...I looked out at all the drivers going past on the road out-front...it was scary how many were looking down into their laps. Real scary how many.
Indy mxer wrote:
I have a moto buddy that got hit about a month ago road cycling. He was lucky, ended up in the hospital for a night but...
I have a moto buddy that got hit about a month ago road cycling. He was lucky, ended up in the hospital for a night but was just scraped and banged up. I know 2 other people who have got hit here. Our roads are ok but we don't have much shoulder along most of them.

For all you guys that love to cycle, check out the Peloton. Works the same muscles and you get an awesome cardio workout in 45 minutes. It's the real deal. If you have a Peloton store anywhere near you go in for a test ride and take a class.

And no, I don't work for them. lol
Probably the same for many of us here but I don't "mind" if I get hurt riding MX...I love it and accept the risk. If I get knocked off road riding I would mind a hell a'lot and to me it's just not worth the risk.
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