Too bad US motocross doesn't welcome innovation

ccoady454
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9/16/2010 12:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2010 12:30pm
U MAD
Matthes wrote:
Nah, I'm not mad. I just reached a point where I know what Newmann is all about and that's totally cool. It's his right to talk...
Nah, I'm not mad. I just reached a point where I know what Newmann is all about and that's totally cool. It's his right to talk about whatever he wants to but whenever he posts, it's some conspiracy theory on why the OEM's (and promoters) don't want 2-strokes anymore.

The OEM's would sell you pink scooters with tassles if everyone would buy them, it's all about the $, the ecconomy doesn't allow them to tie up assembly lines with two-strokes that "might" sell and the consumers have spoken with their wallets. When OEM's offered 2 and 4 strokes, the consumers chose the thumpers.

I just made a decision in my life about 20 min ago that I'm not going to be lured to click on any "too bad US mx doesn't welcome innovations" threads on Vital MX because, if it's from Newmann, it will be about 2-strokes and I have to say, I already feel better!
Correction.....err, addition to your comment.

When OEM's offered 2 and 4 strokes, the consumers chose the thumpers.

BZZZZT - WRONG

When the OEM's offered 2 and 4 strokes, the consumers chose the 2 stroke. When the AMA offered a 100% displacement advantage, the manufacturers focused on a machine that would give them more profit, and cost more for parts. It just took a few years for the displacement handicap to become an advantage. So now, it's time to slightly modify the rules, to allow for competition (they did it twice before, why not again?). If the thumpers are BETTER, then the big four will continue to build thumpers. In the mean time, small companies like TM, GasGas, KTM, Maico can run their 2 strokes to compete as well (GIVEN A FAIR DISPLACEMENT RULE CHANGE). I would love to see a huge mix of bikes out there, big and little companies, factory riders and privateers....and I'm not talking about the privateers that get their bikes for free. I'm talking about TRUE privateers that work m-f and are their own mechanic and buy their own parts. The Big 4 simply don't want more competition that the rule changes would bring. It's plain and simple! It's basically a fixed sport anymore.
TeamGreen
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9/16/2010 12:31pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
Your post is ENTIRELY TOO REASONABLE!

You're fired!
Brent
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9/16/2010 12:32pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
maico760
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9/16/2010 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2010 6:36pm
Matthes wrote:
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"...
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"

You're so boring and monotonous, do you have anything interesting to say about anything other than your agenda? Even The Rock branched out once in a while.
jmar wrote:
Har! What's even funnier is that fact that he's right. Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority...
Har!

What's even funnier is that fact that he's right.
Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority few happy.
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have equal CC for CC. It shouldn't matter then, right, you can still race your paper weights.

The Shop

MX7MX
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9/16/2010 2:05pm
When you add two different bikes to the same class, there is simply too much parity. It will NEVER be completely EVEN. The only way to remedy that is to have the same bikes in the same classes. 250F's with 250F's, 450's with 450's, 125's with 125's, 250T's with 250T's. Right now, its 250F's and 450's, until something changes, don't create parity and thus more problems.
ccoady454
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9/16/2010 2:12pm
MX7MX wrote:
When you add two different bikes to the same class, there is simply too much parity. It will NEVER be completely EVEN. The only way to...
When you add two different bikes to the same class, there is simply too much parity. It will NEVER be completely EVEN. The only way to remedy that is to have the same bikes in the same classes. 250F's with 250F's, 450's with 450's, 125's with 125's, 250T's with 250T's. Right now, its 250F's and 450's, until something changes, don't create parity and thus more problems.
So, in effect, you're saying the AMA screwed up by changing the rules in the first place? They changed the rules, then they changed the names of the races to accomodate the rules. How nice.
Gaz_b
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GB
9/16/2010 3:24pm
ccoady454 wrote:
So, in effect, you're saying the AMA screwed up by changing the rules in the first place? They changed the rules, then they changed the names...
So, in effect, you're saying the AMA screwed up by changing the rules in the first place? They changed the rules, then they changed the names of the races to accomodate the rules. How nice.
Yes.

But getting back to the main point, that bike in the original post was a pretty good read. Why should people be not allowed to do something like that and be excluded from an AMA Pro race (amusing they had the pace to be there in the first place)?
SwapperMX
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9/16/2010 5:56pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
Brent wrote:
[img]http://www.journerdism.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/broken-record.jpg[/img]
Where else have you seen this bike or team plastered all over the internet. I had not seen it any where else ???????
9/16/2010 6:14pm
Brent wrote:
[img]http://www.journerdism.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/broken-record.jpg[/img]
Out of all the images on the internet and cliche's in the world and you choose a digitally created pictue to symbolize the phrase "broken record?" How long did that take ya?
GuyB
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9/16/2010 6:21pm
Out of all the images on the internet and cliche's in the world and you choose a digitally created pictue to symbolize the phrase "broken record?"...
Out of all the images on the internet and cliche's in the world and you choose a digitally created pictue to symbolize the phrase "broken record?" How long did that take ya?
Probably about two strokes of his mouse. Wink
9/16/2010 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2010 6:22pm
Matthes wrote:
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"...
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"

You're so boring and monotonous, do you have anything interesting to say about anything other than your agenda? Even The Rock branched out once in a while.
jmar wrote:
Har! What's even funnier is that fact that he's right. Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority...
Har!

What's even funnier is that fact that he's right.
Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority few happy.
maico760 wrote:
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have...
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have equal CC for CC. It shouldn't matter then, right, you can still race your paper weights.
Professional racing exists in all forms, not just at the pinnacle of our sport. EMX2, EMX125, MX3, WMX, Vet classes, local racing, amateur nationals, Federation (National) leagues like the British Championship or Belgian championships, the MX series in Japan, all of the smaller impoverished countries that have a much smaller middle classes and so on. You don't have to make a living at racing to be a professional racer. You can have two professions in your life... hell you can have as many as you want.



Want it done right then start a 2 stroke National series like we had the 4 stroke Nationals before 4 strokes took off. Once they realized that tons of people were racing that series it was proof positive that a market existed. We just need to get a share of the market back. That's the "hard work" part.
newmann
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9/16/2010 6:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2010 6:44pm
GuyB wrote:
Probably about two strokes of his mouse. Wink
Guy B made a funny. Pretty damn funny at that! By the way, this topic has damn near 7000 views at this point. Does that mean I'm good for business? My commission check is in the mail? Wink Or should I start another Chad Reed post?
SwapperMX
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9/16/2010 6:55pm
GuyB wrote:
Probably about two strokes of his mouse. Wink
newmann wrote:
Guy B made a funny. Pretty damn funny at that! By the way, this topic has damn near 7000 views at this point. Does that mean...
Guy B made a funny. Pretty damn funny at that! By the way, this topic has damn near 7000 views at this point. Does that mean I'm good for business? My commission check is in the mail? Wink Or should I start another Chad Reed post?
Hey Newmann,

You are very good for business. There is one fan of yours out there though that has stated he will never read another one of your posts. His loss. POST AWAY !!!!
jmar
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Oklahoma City, OK US
9/16/2010 7:07pm
Matthes wrote:
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"...
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"

You're so boring and monotonous, do you have anything interesting to say about anything other than your agenda? Even The Rock branched out once in a while.
jmar wrote:
Har! What's even funnier is that fact that he's right. Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority...
Har!

What's even funnier is that fact that he's right.
Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority few happy.
maico760 wrote:
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have...
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have equal CC for CC. It shouldn't matter then, right, you can still race your paper weights.
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different.

As I have said before, come up with a displacement that brings both engines to an equal horsepower.

Again

This only needs to be enacted in the small bore class. It doesn't matter if some of you want run 760cc two stokes. It's not going to make a difference. Make the large bore class unlimited.

9/16/2010 7:53pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
Good post, thanks.
maico760
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US
9/16/2010 8:26pm
jmar wrote:
Har! What's even funnier is that fact that he's right. Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority...
Har!

What's even funnier is that fact that he's right.
Give it up guy's. Professional racing doesn't need to be dumbed down to make a minority few happy.
maico760 wrote:
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have...
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have equal CC for CC. It shouldn't matter then, right, you can still race your paper weights.
jmar wrote:
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different. As I have said before, come up with a displacement that...
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different.

As I have said before, come up with a displacement that brings both engines to an equal horsepower.

Again

This only needs to be enacted in the small bore class. It doesn't matter if some of you want run 760cc two stokes. It's not going to make a difference. Make the large bore class unlimited.

Translation: jmar cowers and says "sorry I said anything, 4 strokes would be slaughtered if cc for cc woud occur".
newmann
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9/16/2010 8:46pm
maico760 wrote:
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have...
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have equal CC for CC. It shouldn't matter then, right, you can still race your paper weights.
jmar wrote:
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different. As I have said before, come up with a displacement that...
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different.

As I have said before, come up with a displacement that brings both engines to an equal horsepower.

Again

This only needs to be enacted in the small bore class. It doesn't matter if some of you want run 760cc two stokes. It's not going to make a difference. Make the large bore class unlimited.

maico760 wrote:
Translation: jmar cowers and says "sorry I said anything, 4 strokes would be slaughtered if cc for cc woud occur".
No, JMar is being realistic.

It's funny that people state that 250/250 heads up racing wouldn't be fair but I don't remember this much opposition to the 125/250 matchup. Who can honestly say that is a fair race? The sad part about it all is that the 125 was made obsolete by the simple stroke of a pen. Such major component of all that is motocross in the US was sent to the scrap heap. It's a damn shame and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way.

But as Jim suggests there would have to be some serious considerations given to arrive at a comparable cc/cc ratio beween a 2 and 4 stroke to be "fair". My guess would be somewhere in the 175-200cc range to try and match horsepower and torque spec of the 250 4. But that still leaves somebody to build this particular bike(KTM most likely) while the 125 continues to fade into oblivion.
jmar
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Oklahoma City, OK US
9/16/2010 8:47pm
maico760 wrote:
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have...
Explain how 2 strokes "dumb down" the sport? If the riders are a minority, what are you afraid of to just say OK, we can have equal CC for CC. It shouldn't matter then, right, you can still race your paper weights.
jmar wrote:
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different. As I have said before, come up with a displacement that...
Do you really not understand that the two and four stroke engines are very different.

As I have said before, come up with a displacement that brings both engines to an equal horsepower.

Again

This only needs to be enacted in the small bore class. It doesn't matter if some of you want run 760cc two stokes. It's not going to make a difference. Make the large bore class unlimited.

maico760 wrote:
Translation: jmar cowers and says "sorry I said anything, 4 strokes would be slaughtered if cc for cc woud occur".
I wouldn't expect anything less from a guy with the screen name of maico760

maico760
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US
9/16/2010 9:10pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2010 9:18pm
So you've just agreed with me with the 175 vs 250cc, so I was realistic, 250cc 2 stroke would kill 250cc four stroke. However, jmar never answered why 2 strokes "dumb down" motocross.
haydos25
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9/16/2010 9:15pm
maico760 wrote:
So you've just agreed with me with the 175 vs 250cc, so I was realistic, 250cc 2 stroke would kill 250cc four stroke. However, jmar never...
So you've just agreed with me with the 175 vs 250cc, so I was realistic, 250cc 2 stroke would kill 250cc four stroke. However, jmar never answered why 2 strokes "dumb down" motocross.
I wouldn't agree with that. For the past 2 years in oz our under 19's and Lites class has been 250cc whatever you want.

250 four strokes have one 4 championships from 4 attempts in that time. I dont agree that its an open and shut case as far as that's concerned.

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